[cheryl j]

              =================

This theory is based on energy level and answers following questions-
1. Why nature requires intelligent creatures like Human beings ?
2. Why evolution occurs?
3. What is limit of evolution ?









Once you have complex molecules that are capable of replicating themselves, they continue to do so, unless something else stops them. I'm not a good enough chemist to explain how non-replicating molecules suddenly become replicating.

If these replicating things change in some way that helps them to do it better or faster, they have an advantage of other replicating things, especially if they are competing for the same energy or material resources.

Most textbooks define life, or a single cell, as having organization, the ability to reproduce, a metabolism, and response to stimuli. Single cell organisms can respond to stimuli in simple ways, such as moving towards increases in concentration of necessary nutriant (chemotaxis.) One could think of intelligence or brains as simply information processors that allow more complex organisms to interpret sensory stimuli in some manner that gives them a survival advantage over other organisms.

It seems to me that you are looking at all this backwards, and I don't know how you can discuss evolution without talking about natural selection. Nature doesn't really "require" intelligence. Intelligence has a survival advantage for living things with a metabolism. 

[cheryl j]

I don't have a beef with religion or the attempt to find the "meaning" of life. I also do not believe that anything is completely beyond the scope of science. I do, however, think one has to hold a theory to a higher standard of proof when there is a deep, compelling psychological need to believe it is true, and the human desire to keep existing even after death is about as deep and compelling as it gets.

[CliffordK]

Sitting here by the crackling fireplace, it dawned on me...  it is our ability to control fire...

Which only leaves us second to the true beasts that control, the controllers of fire!!!



Oddly...  I was thinking about the "Call of the Wild" book... and the image of the dog next to the fireplace (or wood stove?).  But...  perhaps that is more fiction than reality, as it often gets hot right in front of the fire... and I don't remember seeing our dog tuckered out in front of the fire.

[damocles]

I don't have a beef with religion or the attempt to find the "meaning" of life. I also do not believe that anything is completely beyond the scope of science. I do, however, think one has to hold a theory to a higher standard of proof when there is a deep, compelling psychological need to believe it is true, and the human desire to keep existing even after death is about as deep and compelling as it gets.

I, on the other hand, do believe that there are many important things that are completely beyond the scope of science, and other ways of knowing than through the edifice of scientific knowledge and technique.

As an example I would point out the differences in aesthetic response to poetry -- why some poetry is regarded as "good" and other as "inferior", or why some people like the works of one famous poet but not of another, etc.

Science is not very good at dealing with emergent properties (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/properties-emergent/). Often, but not always, a new field of science can be brought in to help.

To take an example, it is very difficult to use a complete understanding of the components and the function of various parts of an automobile to arrive at an analysis of traffic jam (English/Australian) =? gridlock (US) . But the latter can be scientifically analysed to a large extent in the scientific field of population statistics.

I have a published scholarly article (Chapter 2 in "Of Minds and Molecules"
(http://www.amazon.com/Minds-Molecules-Philosophical-Perspectives-Chemistry/dp/0195128346/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1321306483&sr=1-6, if you are interested)
that deals with this topic in the context of whether chemistry can be reduced to physics.

I like to think about the soul in terms of an analogy: like all analogies it is far from perfect, but it might be instructive. It works as follows:
Brain:mind:spirit as computer CPU:program:problem. Even if you analyse the state and changes in state of every element of a modern computer, it will be all but impossible to determine the detail of the program it was running at the time. Even if you knew everything about the program that was running and its input data, you could at best only make a guess at the particular problem it was being applied to.

As it happens I am a religious person, but I think that is co-incidental. I do not think you would have to have a religion-based outlook to see the position I have just described as a reasonable one.

[Nizzle]

Hi pandey_23ajay,

You are making a very common mistake when looking at Evolution and Natural Selection:
You think that evolution is a consequence that stems out of a need to strive to perfection (in your case, you define perfection as "minimal energy state").
Many people think this way but it's completely incorrect!
Evolution is random and the organisms that are still alive today are nowhere near perfection, and are not even going in that direction. They exist simply because they are around long enough to reproduce, that's all.

The only way that Natural Evolution will make human beings smarter than they are today will require two things to occur:
1. First and foremost, this mutation must happen somewhere in the human population by accident (the random factor)
2. That group of people who accidently have this mutation must somehow do better at reproduction than the rest of mankind so their numbers will increase more rapidly than the non-mutated humans, and finally take over the non-mutated humans.

Note: See that I stressed Natural Evolution, because in the near future, mankind will be able to take control over it's own evolutionary processes through biotechnology and thus circumvene the random factor. This however can no longer be called Natural.

[yor_on]

A soul is a very interesting concept, maybe we're all entangled? Does that make for a 'soul' on some minuscule plane of existence? Buddhism have different concepts for it, the one that they seem to find the best is when you stop getting reborn and disappear as a, possibly, 'soul'. Taoism, which is to my liking, doesn't discuss souls at all, as far I've seen. Maybe some could be seen as discussing it, but then only on that 'entangled' plane.

But as far as we can measure there is no 'soul' to be measured. So it's hard to define it as 'science', as that is about what is test and measur-able? Still, we all think, don't we? What are thoughts?

[MikeS]

Quote pandey_23ajay
"Every system tries to have minimum energy in order to gain maximum stability by incorporating itself in a system which minimizes the energy of incorporated system by loss or utilization of energy in the form of physical or mental activity of incorporating system.
Various systems are-
Incorporated system- is system which is attached to another system called incorporating system usually larger than incorporated system.
Two or more systems will come together only if overall energy of resulting system is lowered.
Atomic system- is atom itself.
Molecular system- is two or more atoms together.
Body system-complex of molecular system.
Soul system-most stable part of body system."

The above, highlighted in green, appears to me to be just the way the universe works.  That's what gravity does.  When two objects combine time dilates for them which is equivalent to a reduction in useful energy, thereby gaining maximum stability through increased entropy.

Intelligence requires more brain power and hence consumption of energy which leads ultimately to an increase of entropy in the overall system. But it could be argued that intelligence initially leads to a decrease in entropy as it requires an input of energy to power that intelligence.

[pandey_23ajay (OP)]

Intelligence is not just for survival (natural selection), think, do humans need atomic bomb for survival, there was no need or threat from the environment for that higher level of intelligence to create atomic bomb or clones or higher technology, humans can survive without them and can even rule all living organisms on earth. so intelligence has other aim and purpose , apart from survival and natural selection. it should be seen and studied broadly.we should not confine ourself to superficial meaning of evolution as natural seletion. please think.

[MikeS]

pandey_23ajay quote
"Every system tries to have minimum energy in order to gain maximum stability"

Whilst that is in general true, if you consider a living organism to be a system then it is not true.

Minimising energy levels is entropy and there seems to be little evidence that living organisms have any desire to do that.  Quite the opposite in fact.  They burn food to create energy.  If entropy drove evolution why have more complex organisms evolved that require yet more and more energy?  Entropy is the final outcome but it is certainly not the driving force when considering life or evolution.

[Gordian Knot]

1. Why nature requires intelligent creatures like Human beings ?

I'm still getting stuck on statement number one. I find little evidence that nature requires intelligent creatures like human beings. There has been life on this planet for most of the time of its existence, 4 billion years give or take. Of that 4 billion years, as far as we know, there has never been an intelligent creature like humans until now. The last few million years at most.

This implies strongly to me that nature does not require, indeed, has little interest in intelligent creatures. Considering what humans are doing to the planet, it could turn out that intelligence is the worst thing to ever happen. Jury's still out on that one.

[pandey_23ajay (OP)]

Dear MikeS,

organisms extract energy from food, so useful energy of food decreses, and its entropy increases. on the other hand organisms utilises energy from food to increase entropy of body system, so it is in favor of both food as well as body system. entropy is driving force of evolution.
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PLEASE COMMENT ON PROCESS OF EVOLUTION IN NEW THEORIES BY ME.******
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[MikeS]

Dear MikeS,

organisms extract energy from food, so useful energy of food decreses, and its entropy increases. on the other hand organisms utilises energy from food to increase entropy of body system, so it is in favor of both food as well as body system. entropy is driving force of evolution.
============================================================
PLEASE COMMENT ON PROCESS OF EVOLUTION IN NEW THEORIES BY ME.******
=====================================================

No. 
An input of energy decreases the entropy.
No it's not.  One could argue that entropy is the driving force behind the universe and therefore entropy is the driving force behind everything and in general I believe this to be true.  However, an input of energy to a system must initially decrease it's entropy.  In this instance you use the term 'body system'.

[pandey_23ajay (OP)]

Everything, every action is natural, it is not the nature which selects organisms (natural selection) but organisms select and utilise, adapt and can even modify nature according to their need as humans do, not only humans many animals make nest / home for themselves and modify nature.
INTELLIGENCE IS TOOL OF FASTER EVOLUTION THROUHG TECHNIQUES AND TECHNOLOGY WHICH ULTIMATELY HELPS IN BETTER ADAPTATION AND SURVIVAL, NOT ONLY FOR HUMANS, WE HAVE RESPONSIBILITY TO DO SAME FOR OTHER CREATURES ALSO AND UPLIFT THE NATURE, THAT IS EVOLUTION TOWARDS MORE INTELLIGENCE INCREASES ENTROPY OF BODY SYSTEM OF ALL ORGANISMS.
INTELLIGENT CREATURES ARE PROTECTOR AND TOOLS OF SURVIVAL OF WHOLE NATURE.
NATURAL SELECTION SHOULD BE GIVEN DEEPER MEANING, DO NOT THINK SUPERFICIAL, LETS MOVE AHEAD***
******PLEASE READ PROCESS OF EVOLUTION AND COMMENT*****

[Gordian Knot]

Pandey, I don't have a clue what it is you just posted. Except that humans have a responsibility for nurturing the entire ecosystem. Unfortunately up till now, we have done, and continue to do, an extremely poor job of it.

Beyond that concept though, I do not understand what you were trying to convey in this post.

[pandey_23ajay (OP)]

I want to convey the meaning of natural selection, importannce of intelligence that is intelligence is not just for survival but has other purpose also and increasing entropy of body system which is responsible for incresing intelligence and finally evolution.

[pandey_23ajay (OP)]

Energy theory of evolution. (MODIFIED)
Advanced theory of evolution.
This theory is based on energy level and answers following questions-
1. Why nature requires intelligent creatures like Human beings ?
2. Why evolution occurs?
3. What is limit of evolution ?

Statement-
Every system tries to have minimum energy in order to gain maximum stability by incorporating itself in a system which minimizes the energy of incorporated system by loss or utilization of energy in the form of physical or mental activity of incorporating system, that is increasing entropy of body system is responsible for increasing intelligence and finally evolution.
Various systems are-
Incorporated system- is system which is attached to another system called incorporating system usually larger than incorporated system.
Two or more systems will come together only if overall energy of resulting system is lowered.
Atomic system- is atom itself.
Molecular system- is two or more atoms together.
Body system-complex of molecular system.
Particulate system- are particles below atomic level.
Aim of every body system is to minimize energy of molecular, atomic and particulate system and all other systems which are part of the body system. Body system lowers energy by physical activity, mental activity and chemical activity. Since physical activity can be performed to a limited extent by body system, so mental activity evolved in body system which can be used in larger way to lower the overall energy of system. In an attempt to minimize energy, process of evolution came into existence. That is why creatures like Human being evolved who are using more mental and physical activity, which in combined leads to expense of energy and finally leads to stability of atomic and molecular system.
 This is the reason for continuous evolution of intelligence and also the reason for evolution of intelligent  creatures.
In an attempt to further lower the energy level of atomic, molecular and particulate system, evolution will continue, more and more intelligent creatures will evolve; super intelligent human body system will emerge. But question arises, till what limit evolution will occur?
Once Body system is unable to further provide stability to molecular, atomic and particulate system, evolution for that particular body will stop and nature will eliminate this body system / creature or will modify it. This will be either end of particular creature or emergence of new one. This is the limit of evolution or we can say process of natural selection.

By-
Dr Ajay pandey
BDS, MBA
pandey_23ajay@yahoo.co.in