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  4. Is an electromagnetic force field feasible?
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Is an electromagnetic force field feasible?

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Offline Voxx (OP)

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Re: Is an electromagnetic force field feasible?
« Reply #20 on: 19/06/2012 19:50:24 »
Quote from: JP on 16/06/2012 19:13:27
You can levitate diamagnetic objects, which is a particular class of objects, with a strong magnetic field (see the frog video I posted above, or CliffordK's discussion of water).  This kind of field wouldn't levitate all matter (it would suck in ferromagnetic objects, for example).

So in the case of explosive materials and impact, could i have a dampening effect?  Very cool video btw.

I believe nearly all materials have some background diamagnetism, right?

And isn't this caused by the quantum mechanical states of the electrons being changed by magnetic fields?

Of course under high heat temperatures electromagnetic fields are dampened, so would it still be possible to dampen or reduce the force even by a fraction?
« Last Edit: 19/06/2012 20:03:15 by Voxx »
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Offline JP

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Re: Is an electromagnetic force field feasible?
« Reply #21 on: 20/06/2012 13:02:02 »
There are two other common kinds of magnetic properties exhibited by materials: ferromagnetism and paramagnetism.  Ferromagnetism is the most common, and is responsible for why many metals seem attracted to magnets.  Paramagnetism is much weaker, but also is responsible for the attraction of materials to magnets.  Diamagnetism is actually a repulsive force, which is why you can levitate objects with a strong enough field. 

Generally materials have one primary property: ferro-, para- or diamagnetism.  The others tend to be negligible.  So if you created a magnetic field to repel diamagnetic materials, you'd end up attracting ferro- or paramagnetic materials.  If you knew that someone was only shooting diamagnetic materials at you, you might be able to do something about, but if there were any ferromagnetic materials in the vicinity, they'd be sucked right into your field, since ferromagnetism tends to be a much stronger effect than diamagnetism.
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Offline Voxx (OP)

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Re: Is an electromagnetic force field feasible?
« Reply #22 on: 20/06/2012 17:56:45 »
Quote from: JP on 20/06/2012 13:02:02
There are two other common kinds of magnetic properties exhibited by materials: ferromagnetism and paramagnetism.  Ferromagnetism is the most common, and is responsible for why many metals seem attracted to magnets.  Paramagnetism is much weaker, but also is responsible for the attraction of materials to magnets.  Diamagnetism is actually a repulsive force, which is why you can levitate objects with a strong enough field. 

Generally materials have one primary property: ferro-, para- or diamagnetism.  The others tend to be negligible.  So if you created a magnetic field to repel diamagnetic materials, you'd end up attracting ferro- or paramagnetic materials.  If you knew that someone was only shooting diamagnetic materials at you, you might be able to do something about, but if there were any ferromagnetic materials in the vicinity, they'd be sucked right into your field, since ferromagnetism tends to be a much stronger effect than diamagnetism.

So in essence it is possible, but it could have very destructive backlashes and one would have to have pre-knowledge of which materials you would want to repel?

What is the effect on velocity and mass?  Would the field have to be given any specific manipulation to prevent some things from getting through?

Would this kind of shielding only work for materials with these magnetic materials in them?

•   Chromium (IV) oxide
•   Cobalt
•   Dysprosium
•   Ferrite (Iron)
•   Ferrite (Magnet)
•   Ferromagnetic Material Properties
•   Gadolinium
•   Gallium Manganese Arsenide
•   Iron
•   Magnetite
•   Neodymium Magnet
•   Nickel
•   Permalloy
•   Rare-Earth Magnet
•   Samarium-Cobalt Magnet
•   Yttrium Iron Garnet

Also I read:"In most materials diamagnetism is a weak effect, but in a superconductor a strong quantum effect repels the magnetic field entirely, apart from a thin layer at the surface."  So in the case of a superconductor would it be possible?

What kind of effect would Superparamagnetism have?
« Last Edit: 20/06/2012 18:11:58 by Voxx »
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Offline JP

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Re: Is an electromagnetic force field feasible?
« Reply #23 on: 20/06/2012 19:19:57 »
I don't know all of those materials, but some of them are definitely ferromagnetic.  So they wouldn't be repelled by a strong magnetic field.  They'd be attracted.  In that case, your magnetic shield could consist of a giant magnet sitting next to you, to deflect the projectiles towards it, rather than having them hit you.

A superconductor is strongly repelled by a magnet.  A classic experiment in college-level physics is to place a magnet over a superconductor and show that it levitates there.  This is also the idea behind maglev trains.  Of course, to rely on this, you'd have to be having your enemy firing superconducting bullets at you.
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Offline Voxx (OP)

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Re: Is an electromagnetic force field feasible?
« Reply #24 on: 20/06/2012 19:23:17 »
Quote from: JP on 20/06/2012 19:19:57
I don't know all of those materials, but some of them are definitely ferromagnetic.  So they wouldn't be repelled by a strong magnetic field.  They'd be attracted.  In that case, your magnetic shield could consist of a giant magnet sitting next to you, to deflect the projectiles towards it, rather than having them hit you.

A superconductor is strongly repelled by a magnet.  A classic experiment in college-level physics is to place a magnet over a superconductor and show that it levitates there.  This is also the idea behind maglev trains.  Of course, to rely on this, you'd have to be having your enemy firing superconducting bullets at you.

Interesting, so a regular bullet would have no problems going by a superconductor?
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Offline JP

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Re: Is an electromagnetic force field feasible?
« Reply #25 on: 20/06/2012 19:35:14 »
Nope.  The only problems are when something that's magnetized goes by.
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Offline Geezer

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Re: Is an electromagnetic force field feasible?
« Reply #26 on: 20/06/2012 21:27:26 »
Quote from: JP on 20/06/2012 19:35:14
Nope.  The only problems are when something that's magnetized goes by.

No it ain't. At least, I don't think it is  :)
 
Currents will be induced in any metallic bullet because of its velocity, and those currents will result in some force interactions. I suspect the bullet would, at least, slow down a bit.
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Offline JP

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Re: Is an electromagnetic force field feasible?
« Reply #27 on: 20/06/2012 23:29:02 »
I'm assuming here that the superconductor is uncharged to begin with.  It won't be emitting any electric or magnetic field, and if an uncharged, unmagnetized bullet goes by, it won't do anything to that bullet. 

If something with charge or a magnetic field passes by the superconductor then yes, there will be interaction.
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Offline Geezer

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Re: Is an electromagnetic force field feasible?
« Reply #28 on: 21/06/2012 00:19:04 »
But any conductor, (bus, train, Previn, or super) radiates a field, unless of course it's slacking-off and not actually conducting anything.

(I probably missed an important point here because I was too lazy to actually read the entire thread!)
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Offline JP

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Re: Is an electromagnetic force field feasible?
« Reply #29 on: 21/06/2012 02:08:17 »
The thread was originally about whether or not we could make a force field.  It turned to levitating diamagnetic materials with strong magnetic fields.  And then to superconductors, which are essentially super-diamagnetic--they levitate over even (relatively) weak magnets.  If you put a magnet over a superconductor (that has no current flowing initially), the magnet sets up a current within it that levitates the magnet.  If you put a non-magnet above the same superconductor, it won't do much.

Of course, if your superconductor is already conducting a current (say you have a superconducting solenoid), then you can use your superconductor as a strong magnet and do all the things you can do with a strong magnet.
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Offline Geezer

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Re: Is an electromagnetic force field feasible?
« Reply #30 on: 21/06/2012 02:39:13 »
Well, yes, but is a superconductor that is not conducting really a superconductor? If it wasn't, how would you know?
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Offline Voxx (OP)

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Re: Is an electromagnetic force field feasible?
« Reply #31 on: 21/06/2012 17:56:31 »
Yes, the thread was initially about the possibility of an electromagnetic force field.

But the result of the topic hasn't changed, the purpose of my inquires are leading in the same direction.  Yes, not necessarily a force field, but still having a similar effect.  What i'm trying to examine is the applications of a electromagnetic/magnetic force that could altar the course of dangerous projectiles.  Maybe not completely stop the projectile, but possibly alter its course to a less dangerous positioning.  Now this would of course be stretching modern technology, (as I know) but would it not be possible to create a sort of suite that could determine through computer analysis the grade of material and plot out a course of magnetic strength to redirect that projectile within real time based off predetermined algorithms?

Correct me if I'm speaking nonsense  ;D
« Last Edit: 21/06/2012 17:58:19 by Voxx »
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Offline JP

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Re: Is an electromagnetic force field feasible?
« Reply #32 on: 21/06/2012 21:10:16 »
If you don't care about being pelted at deadly speeds with every piece of iron in the area, you could certainly turn on a magnetic field to deflect projectiles.  What repels one type of matter might attract another, so you'd have to know all the matter around you.  Even then, it might not be possible to tailor a field to do exactly what you want. 

Tracking and analyzing the magnetic properties of incoming projectiles and tailoring magnetic fields in real time is well beyond our current technology.  But supposing we could and that you didn't care about being pelted by other matter in the area, you might be able to make this work in the distant future.

But the reason it won't get built is that it's far easier to destroy the incoming projectile, either by firing another projectile at it or by shooting it with a laser (which is also a form of EM energy).  That's something we can do today (for relatively slow-moving projectiles, at least).
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Offline Voxx (OP)

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Re: Is an electromagnetic force field feasible?
« Reply #33 on: 22/06/2012 01:33:37 »
Alright, thank you for your constant help and straight forward answers without criticism.  I will start a new thread with another idea I have then.
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Offline Robro

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Re: Is an electromagnetic force field feasible?
« Reply #34 on: 06/07/2012 02:57:31 »
I think your best bet for a 'force field' would be a very powerful particle beam laser that would vaporize projectiles before they reached your 'ship'. An old Sci-fi notion is that you would need to have a passive field already in place to deflect incoming objects. It would be more practical and efficient to zap projectiles individually as they approach. Given the advanced targeting computers of today, this would not be impossible. Just a thought.
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Offline Atomic-S

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Re: Is an electromagnetic force field feasible?
« Reply #35 on: 06/07/2012 05:53:42 »
Having looked at the video about the force "wall" in the plastics plant, I can only conclude that something very remarkable has happened. Unfortunately, it is unclear what. One difficulty I have with the description is the notion that a field could hold air in a rigid configuration while it still remains a gas. That sounds like a contradiction. If air were held that tightly, it would condense, I would think, and take on the appearance of a visible mass of transparent material such as ice or water. It would basically liquify or freeze in place. Nothing like tht was reported. Another mystery is why, with forces this powerful, there were not lightning bolts shooting all over the place. None are reported. I think that the phenomenon in the plant needs to be studied more thoroughly; we simply don't know what happened.
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Offline Voxx (OP)

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Re: Is an electromagnetic force field feasible?
« Reply #36 on: 16/07/2012 05:35:06 »
Quote from: Atomic-S on 06/07/2012 05:53:42
Having looked at the video about the force "wall" in the plastics plant, I can only conclude that something very remarkable has happened. Unfortunately, it is unclear what. One difficulty I have with the description is the notion that a field could hold air in a rigid configuration while it still remains a gas. That sounds like a contradiction. If air were held that tightly, it would condense, I would think, and take on the appearance of a visible mass of transparent material such as ice or water. It would basically liquify or freeze in place. Nothing like tht was reported. Another mystery is why, with forces this powerful, there were not lightning bolts shooting all over the place. None are reported. I think that the phenomenon in the plant needs to be studied more thoroughly; we simply don't know what happened.

Thank's for your input, it really does put more of an illuminate light on the said situation.

Also thank you Robro for your comment, it does put more confidence in my theory.
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Offline Chrishumble

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Re: Is an electromagnetic force field feasible?
« Reply #37 on: 04/08/2012 09:48:15 »
I think I know what you are saying , the world of atoms are basically negative not positive. Our bodies and materials dont have a positive charge on them. So if one can generate a negative ion field a person or even a charged object would become negatively charged thus like chargers repel a force field. Now flip it the other way even in a positve charge filed a material ether n/p will become positve eventually once again like particials repel. If I took a piece of foil and wrapped a piece of plastic in it , the material would be effected by a magnetice field.
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Offline Voxx (OP)

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Re: Is an electromagnetic force field feasible?
« Reply #38 on: 07/08/2012 18:56:26 »
Quote from: Chrishumble on 04/08/2012 09:48:15
I think I know what you are saying , the world of atoms are basically negative not positive. Our bodies and materials dont have a positive charge on them. So if one can generate a negative ion field a person or even a charged object would become negatively charged thus like chargers repel a force field. Now flip it the other way even in a positve charge filed a material ether n/p will become positve eventually once again like particials repel. If I took a piece of foil and wrapped a piece of plastic in it , the material would be effected by a magnetice field.

Thank you, my wording was twisted, (Partially because I didn't know what I was talking about >.>) A Negative Ionic Force Field/Negative Ion Repellent Field.
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