[guest39538]

Rock formations that are made of atoms have form , where as life grows and forms to a certain shape.  The rock is what ever shape it forms where life is constant in characteristics and form.

Are all none life forms made of  atoms  but life forms are made of  something else?

My logic on this, atoms do not grow or have the mechanism to create complex forms such as the Human.

[Kryptid]

Living things are made of atoms too. We know the molecular structure and formula of a vast array of compounds found in living things such as glucose, adenosine triphosphate, phospholipids, cholesterol, hemoglobin, DNA, RNA and an immense array of other substances. We grow by accumulating more atoms over time from the food that we eat.

[guest39538]

Living things are made of atoms too. We know the molecular structure and formula of a vast array of compounds found in living things such as glucose, adenosine triphosphate, phospholipids, cholesterol, hemoglobin, DNA, RNA and an immense array of other substances. We grow by accumulating more atoms over time from the food that we eat.

Interesting and I am not going to say that's not true because I just do not know. However I deem that information to be questionable.  How do the atoms we accumulate know to go into the correct place to form our complex shapes?

It seems unlikely we are formed from atoms when the evidence of deposit build ups or sedimentation has a variation of forms, our form is precise and complex where objects are nothing special?

[Kryptid]

Interesting and I am not going to say that's not true because I just do not know. However I deem that information to be questionable.

So you're saying that when a piece of an organism is broken down into its base elements (carbon, oxygen, nitrogen and so on) it's plausible to say that those elements are not made of atoms even though minerals containing those same elements are made of atoms? That makes absolutely no sense (especially given that every single bit of matter in your body ultimately had to come from the environment anyway by the conversion of inorganic matter into organic matter via photosynthesis).

How do the atoms we accumulate know to go into the correct place to form our complex shapes?

Individual atoms don't "know" anything. Nor do molecules. Molecules behave the way that they do due to the laws of physics. The more complicated a molecule is, the more complicated its behavior can be. Look up how DNA replication and transcription works, for example.

It seems unlikely we are formed from atoms when the evidence of deposit build ups or sedimentation has a variation of forms, our form is precise and complex where objects are nothing special?

DNA contains significantly more specified information than the molecules in soil do. By your reasoning, computers aren't made of atoms either because their "form is precise and complex".despite the fact that the materials they are made of were taken from the environment (in part from the very sedimentation you speak of).

[guest39538]

By your reasoning, computers aren't made of atoms either because their "form is precise and complex".despite the fact that the materials they are made of were taken from the environment (in part from the very sedimentation you speak of).

We define the form of a computer , the computer does not shape itself.   

Individual atoms don't "know" anything.

Exactly atoms do not know anything or can decide what form they are.  Human's are a complex shape and the shape is far to complex for atoms to randomly form in.

So you're saying that when a piece of an organism is broken down into its base elements (carbon, oxygen, nitrogen and so on) it's plausible to say that those elements are not made of atoms even though minerals containing those same elements are made of atoms?

No I am not saying that, maybe the atoms that ''live'' are different to the atoms of a rock.   It seems rather odd that atoms can gain more atoms and form a human formation.  Most structures in our universe tend to be spherical , the atoms ''ordered'' to follow a centripetal pathway.   Humans do not seem to have this order.

[The Spoon]

Rock formations that are made of atoms have form , where as life grows and forms to a certain shape.  The rock is what ever shape it forms where life is constant in characteristics and form.

Are all none life forms made of  atoms  but life forms are made of  something else?

My logic on this, atoms do not grow or have the mechanism to create complex forms such as the Human.

No. We can analyse living things and show a) what elements they are made up from b) what compounds these form and c) the amount of each of these. You appear ignorant of this. Also ignorant of the fact that some geological materials are formed from living things.

[Kryptid]

We define the form of a computer , the computer does not shape itself.

So then we are in agreement that being precise and complex has nothing to do with whether or not atoms are involved.

Exactly atoms do not know anything or can decide what form they are.  Human's are a complex shape and the shape is far to complex for atoms to randomly form in.

Nobody said that atoms form humans randomly so that's irrelevant. DNA sequences sure aren't random.

No I am not saying that, maybe the atoms that ''live'' are different to the atoms of a rock.

Pretty much any chemical you find in the human body can be synthesized artificially. There's nothing fundamentally different about the urea, amino acids, nucleic acids or lipids created in a laboratory and those found in a living organism.

It seems rather odd that atoms can gain more atoms and form a human formation.

Crystals do just that, albeit on a much simpler scale.

Most structures in our universe tend to be spherical , the atoms ''ordered'' to follow a centripetal pathway.   Humans do not seem to have this order.

Most structures in the Universe do not have a genetic code that instructs them on how to grow and build tissues.

[The Spoon]

Also Mr Box, can you provide evidence that most structures in the universe are spherical? The crystal structure of quartz or calcite for example sure isnt.

[guest39538]

Also Mr Box, can you provide evidence that most structures in the universe are spherical? The crystal structure of quartz or calcite for example sure isnt.

Crystals that are within a spherical formation called the earth?   I think most of the mass in the universe is in spherical formation, i.e planets,stars,moons,

And a crystal is a random formation rather than a complex formation.

[guest39538]

Most structures in the Universe do not have a genetic code that instructs them on how to grow and build tissues.

They do not have generic code that tells them where to be placed either. Where in humans the formation is much more complex. Does dna tell the atoms where to go?

[The Spoon]

Also Mr Box, can you provide evidence that most structures in the universe are spherical? The crystal structure of quartz or calcite for example sure isnt.

Crystals that are within a spherical formation called the earth?   I think most of the mass in the universe is in spherical formation, i.e planets,stars,moons,

And a crystal is a random formation rather than a complex formation.

So you cannot provide proof then? Just thought I would check if you were making more claims with no evidence.

A crystal is not a random formation - a crystal of say feldspar invariably has the same structure. Therefore it is not random by definition.

[Kryptid]

They do not have generic code that tells them where to be placed either.

The reason that planets and stars are spherical is because the strength of gravity overwhelms the compressive strength of the materials that they are made of, forcing them into shapes with a minimum of gravitational potential energy. Chemistry has nothing to do with their shape (unlike with living things, where chemistry is all-important).

If our Solar System is any indication of what other star systems are like, then the vast majority of macroscopic objects in the Universe are not spherical but have an irregular shape (look at how many asteroids there are versus how many planets there are).

Where in humans the formation is much more complex. Does dna tell the atoms where to go?

DNA, along with the necessary enzymes, are indeed responsible for "telling" a lot of other atoms where to go. Sometimes it's direct and sometimes it isn't. The formation of a messenger RNA strand along an open strand of DNA is determined directly by chemical laws whereby certain ribonucleotides fit better with their corresponding deoxyribonucleotides via hydrogen bonds than others. This naturally leads to the formation of the required RNA strand. Similar laws allow the sequence of ribonucleotides in RNA to be translated into peptides by assembling amino acids. These peptides include enzymes, which are selectively-shaped to catalyze specific chemical reactions but not others. Some things are not determined directly by DNA alone, but by epigenetic effects (i.e. cues from the outside environment that affect how DNA is expressed, which lead to modified DNA function without necessarily incurring a genetic mutation).

Some things, however, occur without DNA having to "tell" it how to work. The phospholipid bilayer of a cell membrane forms due to chemical laws that make the polar ends of the molecule attracted to the water it is immersed in while the non-polar ends are attracted to each other (like attracts like). The lowest energy configuration for this is roughly spherical, so many cell membranes are naturally spherical (although other molecules present in the membrane can alter the shape radically in some types of cells). It's all down to chemistry.

Of course, the arrangement of these molecules is of critical importance. If you put a human in a blender, all of the same molecules will be present after the blending process but the soup will no longer be alive nor will it spontaneously come to life. The atoms have not been changed by the blending, so obviously there is nothing special about the atoms themselves that made the original human alive: it was their arrangement.

[guest39538]

They do not have generic code that tells them where to be placed either.

The reason that planets and stars are spherical is because the strength of gravity overwhelms the compressive strength of the materials that they are made of, forcing them into shapes with a minimum of gravitational potential energy. Chemistry has nothing to do with their shape (unlike with living things, where chemistry is all-important).

If our Solar System is any indication of what other star systems are like, then the vast majority of macroscopic objects in the Universe are not spherical but have an irregular shape (look at how many asteroids there are versus how many planets there are).

Where in humans the formation is much more complex. Does dna tell the atoms where to go?

DNA, along with the necessary enzymes, are indeed responsible for "telling" a lot of other atoms where to go. Sometimes it's direct and sometimes it isn't. The formation of a messenger RNA strand along an open strand of DNA is determined directly by chemical laws whereby certain ribonucleotides fit better with their corresponding deoxyribonucleotides via hydrogen bonds than others. This naturally leads to the formation of the required RNA strand. Similar laws allow the sequence of ribonucleotides in RNA to be translated into peptides by assembling amino acids. These peptides include enzymes, which are selectively-shaped to catalyze specific chemical reactions but not others. Some things are not determined directly by DNA alone, but by epigenetic effects (i.e. cues from the outside environment that affect how DNA is expressed, which lead to modified DNA function without necessarily incurring a genetic mutation).

Some things, however, occur without DNA having to "tell" it how to work. The phospholipid bilayer of a cell membrane forms due to chemical laws that make the polar ends of the molecule attracted to the water it is immersed in while the non-polar ends are attracted to each other (like attracts like). The lowest energy configuration for this is roughly spherical, so many cell membranes are naturally spherical (although other molecules present in the membrane can alter the shape radically in some types of cells). It's all down to chemistry.

Of course, the arrangement of these molecules is of critical importance. If you put a human in a blender, all of the same molecules will be present after the blending process but the soup will no longer be alive nor will it spontaneously come to life. The atoms have not been changed by the blending, so obviously there is nothing special about the atoms themselves that made the original human alive: it was their arrangement.

You truly know your chemistry, I never argue with chemistry I think it is quite genius.  I have no  other explanation so I accept your explanation that even us are made of atoms.

[Kryptid]

You truly know your chemistry, I never argue with chemistry I think it is quite genius.  I have no  other explanation so I accept your explanation that even us are made of atoms.

Woah... just woah... I am truly amazed! I was a chemistry minor in college and I have a Bachelor's degree in biology. I must agree with you that chemistry (and biochemistry in particular) is pretty incredible given what it can do.