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  4. Are mail order brides another form of slavery?
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Are mail order brides another form of slavery?

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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Are mail order brides another form of slavery?
« Reply #20 on: 12/05/2018 07:42:28 »
No. The nation is not responsible for the behavior of individuals. It's a fine distinction, but a civilised government sets down statutory offences, then holds individuals responsible for any breach of statute. So you can't prevent anyone offering herself for marriage by whatever means, since marriage is generally considered a Good Thing, but you can support and defend anyone who has been forced tricked or trapped into an abusive or fraudulent (see Anne of Cleves, above) relationship.
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Re: Are mail order brides another form of slavery?
« Reply #21 on: 15/05/2018 10:44:58 »
You're answering my "question" as though it was a policy statement.

You've got the blinkers on with your line it seems. The question is why.

Could you elaborate further on your views, from "mail order brides" to however high that could go as a concept in a kingdom or state.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Are mail order brides another form of slavery?
« Reply #22 on: 15/05/2018 12:24:07 »
Simply put, a slave is a chattel that can be bought and sold with no say in the matter. A bride is, or should be, a woman who has consented to marriage in full knowledge and understanding of that contract.

In civilised countries such as the UK, marriage carries civil privileges (e.g. of inheritance) so is certified by the state as meeting statutory conditions regarding consent and kinship, and as with any contract, must be made in good faith and with evident intent. Unlike commercial contracts, it is a matter of public record and cannot be signed in secret. Any religious flummery is secondary to the witnessed certificate that must be overseen by a state-approved registrar who must be satisfied that the statutory conditions are met. It happens that the heads of most churches, synagogues and mosques are so approved, but by no means all, so public registrars are available too.

So there's the distinction: "mail order bride" is no more than an introduction and "offer to treat", to use the legal term. It does not transfer ownership.
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Re: Are mail order brides another form of slavery?
« Reply #23 on: 15/05/2018 12:54:43 »
So I buy a tech app that is upgraded to AI....what then?

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Offline CliffordK

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Re: Are mail order brides another form of slavery?
« Reply #24 on: 15/05/2018 21:11:37 »
So, what exactly is a "Mail Order Bride" in the 21st century?

Two people meet on a computer dating app.  They talk a bit online, then decide to meet and get hitched.  It happens...  I think. 

Is it OK if the two are in the same city?  Same state?  Same country? 

Or, what about two people in different countries meeting on a dating app?

A marriage can certainly be mutually beneficial to both parties.  :)

Arranged marriages may be different, but they are still common in some cultures.  And, the cultures that still do arranged marriages have data to indicate that the couples in general aren't any worse off than people meeting and dating with western standards.  Of course, there are always outliers, but many women (or men) are able to get themselves into abusive relationships all on their own too.
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Re: Are mail order brides another form of slavery?
« Reply #25 on: 16/05/2018 11:58:51 »
I had a lot of fun with international on-line dating leading to a long-term partnership that seems to be mutually satisfactory - it has certainly lasted longer than most marriages!

In the free world, you pays your money and you makes your choice.The more you pay, the more work the agency does on your behalf to vet and select potential mates, pretty much the same as ordering anything from a uniform shirt to a bespoke suit on line, so I guess a "mail order bride" is someone  selected against a fairly tight specification compared with a "free daing app" where everyone writes their own advertisement.
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Re: Are mail order brides another form of slavery?
« Reply #26 on: 16/05/2018 12:02:01 »
Quote from: opportunity on 15/05/2018 12:54:43
So I buy a tech app that is upgraded to AI....what then?

The answer is in the letter "A". Under the law of a civilised country you can own pretty well anything except a human being. Which includes "I" in the case of a dog!
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Re: Are mail order brides another form of slavery?
« Reply #27 on: 09/06/2018 17:01:04 »
Yes, you are really right. support you.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Are mail order brides another form of slavery?
« Reply #28 on: 09/06/2018 17:45:03 »
Quote from: Pseudoscience-is-malarkey on 07/05/2018 05:42:27
It is of course legal in most of Asia to purchase a bride (the purchase usually coming in the form of paying the girl's family a dowry).
A dowry is a payment that goes the other way. The bride's family pay it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowry
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Re: Are mail order brides another form of slavery?
« Reply #29 on: 09/06/2018 17:45:29 »
Quote from: WritePaperForme on 09/06/2018 17:01:04
Yes, you are really right. support you.
Ok, but we don’t support you.
Trying to advertise essay writing doesn’t go down well here, so you are banned.
Goodbye
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Re: Are mail order brides another form of slavery?
« Reply #30 on: 10/06/2018 06:50:48 »
Quote from: alancalverd
A bride is, or should be, a woman who has consented to marriage in full knowledge and understanding of that contract..
A key factor is willingness and the absence of coercion.

I understand that people who came to the UK to get married have a passport condition that says they are allowed to stay as long as they are married to XXX (or at least this happened in the past).

I am sure that this is to prevent people using a sham marriage as a backdoor to obtain UK residency.

However, if the marriage doesn't work out - and perhaps unfortunately may involve violence, but the immigrant now feels coerced to stay in the relationship because they will lose their residency status.

A dilemma...

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Offline CliffordK

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Re: Are mail order brides another form of slavery?
« Reply #31 on: 11/06/2018 10:21:51 »
Quote from: evan_au on 10/06/2018 06:50:48
Quote from: alancalverd
A bride is, or should be, a woman who has consented to marriage in full knowledge and understanding of that contract..
A key factor is willingness and the absence of coercion.

I understand that people who came to the UK to get married have a passport condition that says they are allowed to stay as long as they are married to XXX (or at least this happened in the past).

I am sure that this is to prevent people using a sham marriage as a backdoor to obtain UK residency.

However, if the marriage doesn't work out - and perhaps unfortunately may involve violence, but the immigrant now feels coerced to stay in the relationship because they will lose their residency status.

A dilemma...
In the USA, a battered spouse can get a divorce and receive a permanent visa. 

It provides some protection for women, but also allows fraud and false claims.
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Offline syhprum

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Re: Are mail order brides another form of slavery?
« Reply #32 on: 30/06/2018 15:58:30 »
Ann of Cleves was the most successful of Henry VIII "wives" despite being rejected as a Flemish mare she was given a home and a substantial pension and lived out her life in comfort.
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