[Senseless (OP)]

My neck hurts.  What does that have to do with science you ask?
Here goes it.

I bought a neck massager, and when its on my neck vibrating i noticed the tv was also vibrating, of course i thought, its making my eyes wiggle! So time whent on and i forgot about it.

Later my neck hurt again! I just found out my spinal cord is all outta wack, but to get back to my story - I noticed this time the tv again was wiggling...but, but, nothing else.. was. So I walked around and found other, perhaps digital of the same nature?.. was doing a little jig like the tv.

What does this mean you wonder? I do too. And i think the connection between just digital pictures wiggling and the eye and neck vibrations could say something about nature, digital complexity, anatomy or who knows! and who wants to be curious? feel free to..I am! thanks.

Greg Badalian

[OldMan]

THis is similar to something I've noticed from time to time. When you are chewing, particularly something fairly cruchy you will often see the lines on a computer monitor, as if you can see the refresh rate.
I've also noticed that it can sometimes be picked up when not looking directly at the screen.

Tim

[Senseless (OP)]

I cant picture what your saying, and im chewing some baked lays as im writing this... so id like you to explain further.

What im saying is, there is a connection that is unique to vibrations on the neck and the eyes and man made light reflections on things such as tvs and digital clocks and such...but not every tv and clock i notice. That connection i hope inspired scientists maybe interested in artifical intelligence? Who want to find a link? This IS a link between man and machine... and please people write with feedback on this.. and try to create energy about it!

Greg Badalian

[alange]

I'd guess ithas to do with the "non-continuous" light emitted by the TV & many digital clocks (refresh on CRT, AC-powered light emitters) and the fact that the brightness-sensing receptors in human eyes respond very quickly.

Likely it is related to the phenomenon of the new LED traffic signals (especially red) seeming to flash as they turn on - I've heard that is because the brightness receptors respond faster than the color receptors, and LEDs go from off to full brightness fast enough for people to notice the delay before the color is detected, where incandescent lights don't change as fast.

Andy Lange

[Senseless (OP)]

the vibrations reach the eyes. The eyes see the clock. The clock flows on the same wave pattern of the vibration. The eyes arent vibrating because nothing else is. Thus... The vibrating clock and the vibrating spine are interconnected. A neural link is made like a dance between lovers. Its not the eyes thus something is happening at a purely neural level that is turning digital data INTO neural data a pattern of waves occures like a dream in a sit com where it waves up and down to show a dreams mysteriousness, but this mysteriousness is very real.

Greg Badalian

[qpan]

quote:Originally posted by Senseless

the vibrations reach the eyes. The eyes see the clock. The clock flows on the same wave pattern of the vibration. The eyes arent vibrating because nothing else is. Thus... The vibrating clock and the vibrating spine are interconnected. A neural link is made like a dance between lovers. Its not the eyes thus something is happening at a purely neural level that is turning digital data INTO neural data a pattern of waves occures like a dream in a sit com where it waves up and down to show a dreams mysteriousness, but this mysteriousness is very real.

Greg Badalian

Your ability to reach radical conclusions like this is quite...well, comical.
Its simply that the tv screen and digital clock LED's are many tens or hundreds of times brighter than everything else around you and has distinct borders (which is why the light bulb may not appear to vibrate). Also, when not looking directly at a monitor or tv, the reason that you can see see the individual refreshes is due to the faster reacting but black and white light receptors being around the outer edges of your retina which you now use if not looking directly at the tv. The colour and slower reacting light receptors are at the centre of your retina, allowing you to see things directly in front of you very clearly.

"I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."
-Edgar Allan Poe

[gsmollin]

What you are seeing is a beat frequency between the vertical refresh rate of the television and the vibrator on your neck.

The moving television picture is actually a series of still pictures. In the USA there are 30 complete pictures per second (60 frames/second / 2 interlaces per frame). In most of the world it is 25 complete pictures per second (50 frames / 2 interlaces). This rate is not much higher than the flicker fusion rate of the human eye, so it is common to see artifacts such as you have seen. Look through a rotating fan at the TV set, and you will see lots of artifacts. The continuous world around the TV will not show such artifacts, unless you are looking under a fluorescent lamp that is also flickering.

LED digital clocks also flicker, because the displays are time-division multiplexed. In a dark room, waving the clock up and down will show a series of distinct dots, instead of lines of light. LCD clocks and screens don't display this effect due to the slower response speeds of the liquid crystals, however, since everybody is doing their best to speed up LCD response, some flicker artifacts may be visible under the right conditions.

[Senseless (OP)]

Im sorry but i feel all this talk about led screans and refresh rates dont seem to be the answer. What i see is the tv actually wiggling in a rippling wave like a rock thrown in a puddle.
 

Its not a physical response to the actual led screan meaning im looking at some refresh rate or something.

It is the vibration that is causing it period...in such a way that the vibration of the tv is matching the vibration of the vibration period and has nothing to do with refresh rates or anything of that nature. Im thinking it has to do with the translation of the data into the neural fibers of the brain.

Greg Badalian

[DrN]

if you mean the actual TV set - the entire box - then i have seen this myself when I've been very very tired. according to my husband this also works if you watch TV and hum. especially football. I'm not going to ask how he found that out!
 
in your case you're eyes are vibrating, so this probably alters the way the brain interprets the movement of images on the TV, displacing the lightwaves up and down, so as to appear to come from outside the screen. basically your eyes are moving before the light reaches them, so the light doesn't come from where you think its coming from, hence the appearance of your TV set moving.

your eyes are very good at playing tricks on you, i have one good eye and one bad eye, and by relaxing them i can make walls appear to close in and move out again, and all sort of weird things.

the only other explanation i can think of would involve the use of illegal substances!

[qpan]

quote:Originally posted by Senseless


It is the vibration that is causing it period...in such a way that the vibration of the tv is matching the vibration of the vibration period and has nothing to do with refresh rates or anything of that nature. Im thinking it has to do with the translation of the data into the neural fibers of the brain.

Greg Badalian

What vibration of the TV? The only vibrations are absolutely miniscule and cannot be seen by the human eye, and occur many thousands/millions of times faster than the neck massager. Trust me, else the massager would melt your neck by imparting too much energy into you.

How can you be sure its not your eyes moving? All is takes are very small vibrations in your head to make everything else appear to vibrate. And don't give me "no, its definately not my eyes vibrating." I'll prove it to you scientifically. Just consider a simple momentum balance on the body. The body is receiveing constant impulses from the massager - in order for the laws of physics not to be violated, when the massager strikes you, it moves backwards slightly, and you move forwards slightly so that total momentum before and after is the same. Now you're only going to be about 30 times heavier than this massager, and by making the massager bounce back after hitting you, its transferred twice its original momentum to you. Therefore, you will vibrate at approximately the same period but with a 15 times smaller amplitude. You might not be able to sense this, but you are vibrating quite a lot actually. Engough to vibrate your eyes and make everything appear to vibrate around you.

"I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."
-Edgar Allan Poe

[gsmollin]

It's called "the phi-phenomenon", and it is indeed related to the refresh rate of the TV screen picture, regardless of what you want to believe. Just below the flicker-fusion rate of the human eye, and above the rate where we can see separate things, the eye does indeed play "tricks" on us. One of these effects was dubbed the "phi-pnenomenon" by researchers. They used two blinking neon tubes, and varied the time delay between blinks. At short delays, both tubes appeared "on". At long delays, the separate flashes were visible. At delays just below the fusion rate, the lamps appeared to move through the space between them, oscillating in a circle, with apparent depth. I have witnessed this myself, having constructed the apparatus. It is very weird.

In your case, your vibrating eyes substitute for the blinking lamps, and you are seeing the TV picture wiggling back and forth. The picture on the screen flashes at its 25-30 Hz rate, just like the blinking neon tubes.

This is a psycho-visual effect, so you are right that it is a "purely neural level".

Other psycho-visual research showed that flashing black and white lines were interpreted as apparent color by the human eye.

[Senseless (OP)]

Thanks gsmollon, it makes perfect sense now!

Greg Badalian

[Senseless (OP)]

by the way, for everybody who have prayed for me...and athiests who wished me luck...my neck is perfect..i saw a specialist and he called my chiropractor a profanity.

Greg Badalian