[set fair (OP)]

This is just an idea - it may well be a load of rubbish but there may be something in it.

There are lots of viruses coexisting with us in our bodies. Many seem harmless others beneficial eg they produce useful proteins. All of them, along with the nasty ones have to contend with an immune system trying to eliminate them. There are numerous strategies that they use.

I'll just look at one, which the literature tells us is one of the ones CoV2 uses. A human cell invaded by a virus presents viral proteins on it's surface to attract the attention of white blood cells to its plight. CoV2 codes for a protein which hitches a ride into the nucleus where it downgrades the protein presenting response.

The immune system does encounter the viral proteins after virus particles leave an infected celland from viral proeins secreted from infected cells or released when viral numbers rupture infected cells, so it can fight and eliminate the infection, which is what hapens with most people. But for some, the immune system goes a step further. It's fighting the virus but it can't find infected cells - because they aren't presenting viral proteins on their surface. So cytokines are released to up-regulate the protein presenting mechanism. This is when the trouble starts. Because, among the peacefully cohabiting proteins, there will be plenty which use the same tactic as CoV2 to stay safe. Suddenly their proteins are being presented on cell surfaces and the immune system thinks cells all over the body are under attack by viruses, and the cytokine storm kicks off. What looks like the immune system attacking its own cells in multiple organs is more precisely the immune system attacking some of cells hosting benign viruses.

That's just a likely example, a similar line of reasoning could be used for other anti-immune mechanisms employed by CoV2 such as suppressing interferon production or preventing apoptosis.

[evan_au]

There are lots of viruses coexisting with us in our bodies. Many seem harmless others beneficial eg they produce useful proteins.

I think you might be confusing viruses with the bacteria in our microbiome?
- There are many bacteria living in our guts, which have genes that humans don't have, break down foods humans cannot digest, and produce chemicals that benefit humans.

There are also viruses in our microbiome, some of which (the bacteriophages) are helpful because they attack bacteria, and discourage one type of bacteria from taking over, causing loss of biodiversity in our guts.
- There are also some large parts of the human genome that appear to be introduced by viruses in the distant past. Some researchers have suggested that some of these may be beneficial.
- But the odds are, if a virus invades a human cell today, it is far more likely to damage the human cells than to produce new proteins that help the human cells.

viral proteins after virus particles leave an infected cell and from viral proteins secreted from infected cells or released when viral numbers rupture infected cells

SARS-COV2 virus particles tends to bud out from infected cells over an extended period (days), rather than suddenly escape by rupturing the cell.
- The infected human cells have had their cellular machinery hijacked by the virus, and would be very ineffective at carrying out their normal functions in the human body (if they can carry out normal functions at all).

viral proteins secreted from infected cells

The goal of the virus is to bud off whole virus particles = RNA + protein coat + spike proteins.
- The virus particles don't offer any beneficial function to human cells - in fact, they spread out and kill more human cells.
- The RNA is hidden inside the protein coat, so the immune system only targets the proteins it can "see".

Some other viruses (eg ebola) do secrete other proteins apart from the ebola virus particles.
- These proteins are a decoy that "look like" the ebola virus, and cause the human antibodies to bind to the decoys, freeing ebola virus particles to spread and infect other human cells.
- This does not seem to be the case for SARS-COV2.
See: https://news.vumc.org/2016/08/11/research-team-takes-aim-at-ebola-virus-decoy-protein/

What looks like the immune system attacking its own cells in multiple organs is more precisely the immune system attacking some of cells hosting benign viruses.

The SARS-COV2 virus invades human cells which express the ACE2 receptor.
- These human cells include the lungs, kidney, brain, and the lining of the heart and blood vessels (ie every organ in the body)
- The immune system attacks cells which show they are infected with the SARS-COV2 virus

What looks like the immune system attacking its own cells in multiple organs really is the immune system attacking infected ACE2 cells, which occur in every organ.

[set fair (OP)]

Evan, you make Jolly2 look well informed.

[Jolly2]

Evan, you make Jolly2 look well informed.

Umm not sure how I should take that😊

[Jolly2]

What looks like the immune system attacking its own cells in multiple organs really is the immune system attacking infected ACE2 cells, which occur in every organ.

That's exactly what the mRNA vaccine does, it makes the immune system think healthy cells are infected with covid and then the immune system responds by destroying them, generally with macrophages.

Which I have concern with because of ADE antibody dependent Enhancement as seen with the dengue fever vaccine. Where the vaccine actually allowed the virus to use macrophages to replicate as the antibodies allowed viral access.

[Jolly2]

This is just an idea - it may well be a load of rubbish but there may be something in it.

There are lots of viruses coexisting with us in our bodies. Many seem harmless others beneficial eg they produce useful proteins. All of them, along with the nasty ones have to contend with an immune system trying to eliminate them. There are numerous strategies that they use.

I'll just look at one, which the literature tells us is one of the ones CoV2 uses. A human cell invaded by a virus presents viral proteins on it's surface to attract the attention of white blood cells to its plight. CoV2 codes for a protein which hitches a ride into the nucleus where it downgrades the protein presenting response.

The immune system does encounter the viral proteins after virus particles leave an infected celland from viral proeins secreted from infected cells or released when viral numbers rupture infected cells, so it can fight and eliminate the infection, which is what hapens with most people. But for some, the immune system goes a step further. It's fighting the virus but it can't find infected cells - because they aren't presenting viral proteins on their surface. So cytokines are released to up-regulate the protein presenting mechanism. This is when the trouble starts. Because, among the peacefully cohabiting proteins, there will be plenty which use the same tactic as CoV2 to stay safe. Suddenly their proteins are being presented on cell surfaces and the immune system thinks cells all over the body are under attack by viruses, and the cytokine storm kicks off. What looks like the immune system attacking its own cells in multiple organs is more precisely the immune system attacking some of cells hosting benign viruses.

That's just a likely example, a similar line of reasoning could be used for other anti-immune mechanisms employed by CoV2 such as suppressing interferon production or preventing apoptosis.

cytokine storm is one of the suggested reasons for why the Spainsh flu killed 20 million, during it's second wave.