The Naked Scientists
  • Login
  • Register
  • Podcasts
      • The Naked Scientists
      • eLife
      • Naked Genetics
      • Naked Astronomy
      • In short
      • Naked Neuroscience
      • Ask! The Naked Scientists
      • Question of the Week
      • Archive
      • Video
      • SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
  • Articles
      • Science News
      • Features
      • Interviews
      • Answers to Science Questions
  • Get Naked
      • Donate
      • Do an Experiment
      • Science Forum
      • Ask a Question
  • About
      • Meet the team
      • Our Sponsors
      • Site Map
      • Contact us

User menu

  • Login
  • Register
  • Home
  • Help
  • Search
  • Tags
  • Recent Topics
  • Login
  • Register
  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. On the Lighter Side
  3. New Theories
  4. Can a Particle's Mass Grow Without Bound?
« previous next »
  • Print
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Can a Particle's Mass Grow Without Bound?

  • 14 Replies
  • 3062 Views
  • 0 Tags

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline talanum1 (OP)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 775
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Can a Particle's Mass Grow Without Bound?
« on: 24/11/2021 10:09:10 »
My model allows the mass of a particle to increase indefinitely. If this wasn't so a particle would be able to accommodate only so much mass, which means if we were to give the particle energy beyond the mass it can encode, the particle will be accelerated beyond the speed of light.

However, my model states that an infinite space gets copied (compactified) into a finite Riemann sphere, so is it still capable of encoding infinite mass?
Logged
 



Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31101
  • Activity:
    11.5%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: Can a Particle's Mass Grow Without Bound?
« Reply #1 on: 24/11/2021 12:23:35 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 24/11/2021 10:09:10
My model allows the mass of a particle to increase indefinitely.
Then it is wrong, by a simple application of the conservation laws.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline Origin

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 2248
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 210 times
  • Nothing of importance
Re: Can a Particle's Mass Grow Without Bound?
« Reply #2 on: 24/11/2021 13:30:36 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 24/11/2021 10:09:10
my model states that an infinite space gets copied (compactified) into a finite Riemann sphere, so is it still capable of encoding infinite mass?
The only thing I like about your post is a statement about your own model ends in a question mark.  Very apropos.
Logged
 

Offline puppypower

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1652
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 125 times
Re: Can a Particle's Mass Grow Without Bound?
« Reply #3 on: 25/11/2021 14:59:52 »
There are two types of mass; rest mass and relativistic mass. The rest mass appears to be limited to certain states, but the relativistic mass can go to infinity, if we have infinite energy.

There is a difference between the two. Rest mass is connected to General Relativity, while relativistic mass is connected to Special Relativity. Both impact space-time but rest mass is different in the sense it can generate gravitational pressures that can alter the states of matter. The fusion core of the sun depends on gravitational pressure from rest mass.

Relativistic mass does not generate gravitational pressure, even though it can have an impact on space and time. If it did generate gravitational pressure space travel would be limited to the speed, below the speed of light, where human cells fuse. Relativistic mass does appear to generate gravity the same way as rest mass.

Rest mass is connected to the acceleration of gravity and has two time vectors; d/t/t. Relativistic mass is based on velocity and has only one time vector; d/t.

The second time vector can be understood by comparing the impact on space-time to the change in pressure, due to adding rest mass. The center of gravity of the sun slows space-time the most. However, gravitational pressure of the core also causes matter to have the fastest transitional states; fusion and gamma rays. The two time vectors of acceleration move in opposite directions; slower and faster.

 Relativistic mass does not compress or fuse the rocket ship into new matter states, since it lacks the second compression time vector connected to higher frequency or faster time. Although adding energy to create relativistic mass could add heat and result in higher frequencies. This could be radiated at constant speed without impacting the velocity or pressure.
 
« Last Edit: 25/11/2021 15:06:05 by puppypower »
Logged
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31101
  • Activity:
    11.5%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: Can a Particle's Mass Grow Without Bound?
« Reply #4 on: 25/11/2021 15:22:56 »
Quote from: puppypower on 25/11/2021 14:59:52
The second time vector
Time is not a vector.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 



Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31101
  • Activity:
    11.5%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: Can a Particle's Mass Grow Without Bound?
« Reply #5 on: 25/11/2021 15:24:45 »
Quote from: puppypower on 25/11/2021 14:59:52
Rest mass is connected to General Relativity, while relativistic mass is connected to Special Relativity.
Relativistic and  rest mass are both part of both general and special relativity.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline talanum1 (OP)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 775
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Can a Particle's Mass Grow Without Bound?
« Reply #6 on: 26/11/2021 13:56:58 »
My model assumes particles are made out of space points and left-out space points. Since left-out space points cannot become infinitely dense, I think particles cannot become infinitely massive: since the mass is encoded in a region of left-out space points.
Logged
 

Offline Origin

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 2248
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 210 times
  • Nothing of importance
Re: Can a Particle's Mass Grow Without Bound?
« Reply #7 on: 26/11/2021 14:03:26 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 26/11/2021 13:56:58
My model assumes particles are made out of space points and left-out space points. Since left-out space points cannot become infinitely dense, I think particles cannot become infinitely massive: since the mass is encoded in a region of left-out space points.
You do not have a scientific model, you have an idea that is based on misunderstandings about science in general.
If you are interested in science then you should learn some science and stop wasting your time making wild assed guesses.
Logged
 

Offline talanum1 (OP)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 775
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Can a Particle's Mass Grow Without Bound?
« Reply #8 on: 26/11/2021 14:38:13 »
Quote from: Origin on 26/11/2021 14:03:26
You do not have a scientific model, you have an idea that is based on misunderstandings about science in general

Produce a criticism of my model then. What am I misunderstanding? My model explains why Anyons have e/3 charge. My model can be found at: www.ijasr.org/paper/ijasr00424945.pdf
Logged
 



Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31101
  • Activity:
    11.5%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: Can a Particle's Mass Grow Without Bound?
« Reply #9 on: 26/11/2021 15:10:51 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 26/11/2021 14:38:13
Produce a criticism of my model then.
We don't need to; you already did it.
You said
Quote from: talanum1 on 24/11/2021 10:09:10
My model allows the mass of a particle to increase indefinitely.
And that is proof that your model is wrong.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 21157
  • Activity:
    71.5%
  • Thanked: 60 times
  • Life is too short for instant coffee
Re: Can a Particle's Mass Grow Without Bound?
« Reply #10 on: 26/11/2021 16:59:20 »
Given that m = m0/√(1-v2/c2), said model is entirely consistent with relativity and hence with all observations to date.

The problem is that to accelerate a nonzero mass to c, you require an infinite amount of energy, and you can only acquire that by conversion of an infinite mass.

So we are back to irresistible forces and immovable objects, which is philosophy, not physics. Intellectual self-abuse is far more dangerous than the physical variety.
Logged
Helping stem the tide of ignorance
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31101
  • Activity:
    11.5%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: Can a Particle's Mass Grow Without Bound?
« Reply #11 on: 26/11/2021 17:10:07 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 26/11/2021 16:59:20
you can only acquire that by conversion of an infinite mass.
So, unless you have an infinite mass handy, you can't do what the OP's model says.
And we don't have an infinite mass.
So what he says is wrong.

So his model is inconsistent with a universe where you don't have access to infinite energy.
So it's inconsistent with this universe.

A scientific theory which is inconsistent with the properties of the universe is called "wrong".
Quote from: alancalverd on 26/11/2021 16:59:20
Given that m = m0/√(1-v2/c2), said model is entirely consistent with relativity and hence with all observations to date.
Where did you observe the infinite mass required to do this? (and how did you avoid falling into it?)
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline talanum1 (OP)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 775
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Can a Particle's Mass Grow Without Bound?
« Reply #12 on: 29/11/2021 19:29:22 »
m=gamma*m_0, so special relativity allows for mass to go to infinity. This requires the points encoding mass to go to infinite density inside the particle.

Although one can never reach infinity.
« Last Edit: 29/11/2021 19:31:26 by talanum1 »
Logged
 



Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31101
  • Activity:
    11.5%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: Can a Particle's Mass Grow Without Bound?
« Reply #13 on: 29/11/2021 20:20:50 »
"Can a Particle's Mass Grow Without Bound?"
No.
If nothing else, the bound is the mass of the observable universe.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline Origin

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 2248
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 210 times
  • Nothing of importance
Re: Can a Particle's Mass Grow Without Bound?
« Reply #14 on: 29/11/2021 20:56:33 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 29/11/2021 19:29:22
This requires the points encoding mass to go to infinite density inside the particle.
Arm waving nonsense.
Logged
 



  • Print
Pages: [1]   Go Up
« previous next »
Tags:
 
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
  • SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
    Privacy Policy
    SMFAds for Free Forums
  • Naked Science Forum ©

Page created in 1.652 seconds with 59 queries.

  • Podcasts
  • Articles
  • Get Naked
  • About
  • Contact us
  • Advertise
  • Privacy Policy
  • Subscribe to newsletter
  • We love feedback

Follow us

cambridge_logo_footer.png

©The Naked Scientists® 2000–2017 | The Naked Scientists® and Naked Science® are registered trademarks created by Dr Chris Smith. Information presented on this website is the opinion of the individual contributors and does not reflect the general views of the administrators, editors, moderators, sponsors, Cambridge University or the public at large.