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Sculpturing Life before conception

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Offline puppypower (OP)

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Sculpturing Life before conception
« on: 29/01/2022 20:00:06 »
Here is idea that came to me many years ago and might be an interesting topic. To explain it, consider a fertilized ovum. When the male and female genes merge after fertilization, the genes  are shuffled to create the combined DNA of the offspring. This shuffling can alter genetic priorities to get differences in children, even with all the children having the same parental DNA. Often the children come out with a spectrum of attributes to make the family complete.

The question I posed to myself was does this shuffling of genes have earlier precedent; before fertilization. If you look at a human egg, this has layers and layers of protein which are designed for the needs of growing a fertilized ovum. Could this protein matrix also contain the potential used for specific equilibrium shuffling of genes?

In other words, as an egg cell grows from scratch, the order that protein are synthesized and layered would be a information grid that defines the chemical potential sequence felt by the DNA of the cell. It is strong enough to force the extrusion of half the DNA. This means if we could design specific potentials into this grid, it can be used to separate the female DNA a given way as well as shuffle the combined DNA after fertilization, a given way.

Could the brain, through nervous tissue, help 3-D print the layering sequence of the original egg, to get desired outcomes; Female DNA separation and fertilized egg DNA shuffling priorities? 

The connection between brain and cellular sculpting is easier to see if you include water since all organic shapes are based on equilibrium in water. Cationic signals from the brain to nervous tissue and sensory nerves, could set an external water equilibrium when the egg is growing. Nervous tissue is also part of our cellular differentiation control system; smart tissue. The same DNA can become all types of cells with the nervous tissue maintaining differentiation and equilibrium.   
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Sculpturing Life before conception
« Reply #1 on: 29/01/2022 21:13:54 »
Do you realise that the proteins in the covering of the egg are made according to information in the DNA of the egg?
(partly mitochondrial, partly nuclear)
Quote from: puppypower on 29/01/2022 20:00:06
Could the brain, through nervous tissue, help 3-D print the layering sequence of the original egg,
No.
Because there's no mechanism

This is not the world of Harry Potter.
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Offline evan_au

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Re: Sculpturing Life before conception
« Reply #2 on: 29/01/2022 21:23:34 »
The process of Meiosis occurs before the egg and sperm are produced.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meiosis

What separates the "good" and "bad" variants of genes  that lie on the same chromosome is called crossover.
- I think you are trying to manipulate the points of crossover?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosomal_crossover

But identifying the "better" and "worse" variants of a gene is not an easy task; in practice, a few bad variants make themselves known in disease; the rest require Genome-Wide Association Studies, and every individual has variants that don't pop up as significant in GWAS.
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Offline puppypower (OP)

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Re: Sculpturing Life before conception
« Reply #3 on: 30/01/2022 15:10:16 »
My approach is from the water side instead of the organic side. The latter can be very cumbersome due to the number of details. Water is simpler; H2O, and is the medium that defines all equilibrium shapes. Every packed protein packs based on the best shape needed to minimize potential in water; organic core and hydrophilic surface.

In the case of the non coding junk genes, there purpose is to carry configurational potential.  They will form equilibrium in water which may not always be possible to minimize. The result is lingering residual potential. The potential in the junk genes allows a way to choose coding genes to get a certain equilibrium, in terms of shuffling coding genes. When male and Female DNA merge we start with two different configurational optimizations. These need to rearrange based on the water.

Sodium and Potassium ions are Kaotropic and Kosmotropic, respectfully. Sodium creates more order in water than pure water creates for itself.  Potassium creates more disorder in water than pure water creates for itself. These two ions are close to water in terms of aqueous affects and thereby can extend the range of water, in both directions, in terms of the types of aqueous equilibria that are possible. Nervous tissue can control this balance outside cells by firing and recovering, thereby altering the potential range of the water used to induce membrane equilibria. Neurons stop replicating, after a certain point, due to this equilibria; replication equilibria are not supported.

When we cut ourselves, this will cut off nerve endings so the countering affect to replication is  stopped. The cells begin to proliferate, until new nerves appear to stop this via new equilibria. The brain and neurons set the example through their own water equilibria.

In cells cycles, the membrane potential lowers and more Na+ flows inside the cell at any given time. The ion pumping increase pace to try to keep up. This shifts the internal water equilibria to the needs of duplication and separation. The higher order in water induction, due to the sodium, forces the DNA to pack into chromosomes. Once the ion pumps catch up as the membrane resaturates, the reverse begins with the K+ potential having the opposite affect; unpacking due to K+creating more disorder.

Cell cycles are timed around the collection of food and energy supplies. These reduced materials create more surface tension and order in water. It is similar to Na+. The Na+ is substituted so the same equilibrium can form as food stockpiles are used up.

The DNA is  like the hard drive of the computer in that all the data is stored there. Water is more like the CPU since the aqueous continuum touches and influence all things at the same time and allows global based equilibrium affects at the DNA like specific gene expression.

Differentiated cells are due, to each cell type having a different membrane potential regulated by nerve tissue. This sets an equilibrium shape for the DNA. This also keeps the cells close to their set-point. Cancer can occur if there is damage to a nerve tissue controller. This will cause the cell, that loses control, to replicate and begins to shift its set point to the no man land between differentiations. Someday we will be able to ping the nervous system and see the dead ends in advance. There will also be a way to repair this using equilibrium affects applied at ganglions and other nerve points. 

The growing of eggs if assisted by the brain and nervous connections would allow the brain to sculpture the egg by setting an ion based water profile. Gamete cells are very important and should have very high neural priority.
« Last Edit: 30/01/2022 15:15:09 by puppypower »
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Re: Sculpturing Life before conception
« Reply #4 on: 30/01/2022 16:40:12 »
Quote from: puppypower on 30/01/2022 15:10:16
The growing of eggs if assisted by the brain and nervous connections would allow the brain to sculpture the egg by setting an ion based water profile. Gamete cells are very important and should have very high neural priority.
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Re: Sculpturing Life before conception
« Reply #5 on: 31/01/2022 16:14:19 »
The problem is the lack of background in terms of equilibrium water analysis. I advanced this so I have more experience.

If we take the simple system water and oil, the water due to its four possible hydrogen bonds, will drive the equilibrium since all that hydrogen bonding is more energetically stable, than the van der Waals forces between oil molecules. Being secondary bonds, hydrogen bonds are not fixed like covalent bonds, but can adjust as needed to optimize the 3-D water matrix as best as possible. The result is water and oil will separate, as the hydrogen bonds of water forces the oil to form a new phase, so water can reform the most stable 3-D hydrogen bonding matrix. Surface tension adds potential to the hydrogen bonding of water, so the drive of the water is to minimize this; two layers will form in gravity. 

The same basic schema is true throughout any cell, and at any level of life, where water and organics meet. There is no molecule in life that has as the same stabilizer power as all the hydrogen bonds of the water all being optimized. Water leads all the organic scenarios in terms of forming distinct organic shapes that allow the water to be optimize under any circumstances. This includes the DNA, which is not active without water. This basic schema is all you need to know to analyze complex life situations at any level. 

It does get more complicated. Things added to water, that the water cannot fully segregate, such as ions and final organic surfaces of enzymes and membranes will add lingering potential to the local water compared to pure water; water activity coefficient becomes less than 1.0.This residual potential can shift the set point; average, of the global hydrogen bonding of water; thereby allowing different organic equilibria, that one would expect of just pure water. For example, more surface tension will be allowable in some cases to reflect the residual potential in the water solution. 

Cell cycles are all based on a shifting equilibrium set point in the cellular water, as organic food stockpiles are metabolized, ions balances change though ion pump reversal, and new materials are synthesized. At each step, this is a shifting dynamic equilibrium, controlled by the potential of the water, via changing dissolved things and changing surfaces. But still, all organic things need to form an equilibrium with water as these things change.

Packing DNA into condenses chromosomes, for example, is like an oil emulsion beading up, which has the impact of lower the surface tension of the water. This is how the water gets rid of the reduction potential of packing protein. Equilibrium favors the DNA taking up the slack leading to equilibrium induced compact genetic material.

The cell itself is designed with internal gradients, formed by the different surface potentials of its various features; layout of the different cellular organelles held by scaffolding. The DNA is at lowest potential and the cell membrane is at highest potential, relative to optimized pure water. As food enters, the reduction potential increase everywhere in the water, via the water, all the way to the DNA, causing changes in it's equilibria. The DNA will unpack, separate and certain genes are transcribed. The  organelles are also made equilibrium ready for further synthesis. Some output products will follow the gradient for equilibrium and move down the gradient, all the way to the outer membrane to be released. The water side is not that complicated; one main job but,with unique features for free energy and information transfer.

The nervous system helps regulate differentiated cells, by controlling the external water. Even sensory nerves give off K+ when fired. If the subject cell is pumping cations too well; external high Na+, to help draw in food, the extra Na+ output will fire the sensory nerve. The output of K+ alters the water outside of the differentiated cell.This can impact food input and internal equilibria. It can restrict food input, so the cell cannot stockpile and replicate very often. Neuron do not replicate and this is equilibrium fed to all cells, in part.

To sculpture eggs, which has an impact on evolution, we only need nerve tissue to induce an external water profile that is tweaked as a function of equilibrium need. Neurotransmitters can be used to lower or increase the firing potential of the sensory nerves, allowing the brain to shift the balance of egg differentiation.

The movement of organics molecules, such as medicine to cells, is all based on equilibrium within the bigger picture of things. The water approach would be a better way to deal with virus like COVID. But current science medicine needs to learn the pitfalls of its own methods, before they will upgrade. They have more to worry about, by assuming there is no water equilibrium to simplify things. This bad inference also requires oracles to predict its chaos in what should be an easy sense of order.
« Last Edit: 31/01/2022 16:40:01 by puppypower »
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Re: Sculpturing Life before conception
« Reply #6 on: 31/01/2022 18:04:36 »
Quote from: puppypower on 30/01/2022 15:10:16
My approach is from the water side instead of the organic side.
This idea of yours was never sensible.
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Re: Sculpturing Life before conception
« Reply #7 on: 31/01/2022 18:07:00 »
Quote from: puppypower on 30/01/2022 15:10:16
The growing of eggs if assisted by the brain and nervous connections would ...
The most important word in that is "if".
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Re: Sculpturing Life before conception
« Reply #8 on: 08/02/2022 15:29:27 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 31/01/2022 18:04:36
Quote from: puppypower on 30/01/2022 15:10:16
My approach is from the water side instead of the organic side.
This idea of yours was never sensible.

The logic for the water assumption is hydrogen bonding is a stronger secondary bonding force than the van dee Waals forces that hold organics together. In terms of free energy changes within a mixture of water and organics, that creates surface tension that increases free energy.  The needs of the hydrogen bonding of water will lead, since optimized hydrogen bonding within the aqueous grid, lowers the free energy the most. The organic react to this change and will also lower free energy. In the case of water and oil, we get two layers; maximizes hydrogen bonding and van der Walls. 

Water leading can be shown to be the case, using energy landscape diagram of proteins and how protein pack in water. Zones on freshly made and unpacked enzymes, that create the most surface tension in water; most reduced moieties on the protein, disrupt optimized hydrogen bonding of water the worse. Based on lowering free energy, these will be forced to pack first; organic core to maximize hydrogen bonding in water.

As the potential induced in the water decreases; less reduction potential, the priority of packing the protein changes to the moieties with somewhat less reduction potential, until the surface moieties remain which minimize potential in water. The water leading makes this free energy based packing very reproducible as well as optimized. Water leading get rid of randomness in protein packing; loads the dice.

If we have an enzyme that is packed and ready to go online, if we change its packing conformation, due to the addition of ATP and/or an attached substrate, this creates local potential within water, that can be used to help the enzyme. If the hydrogen bonds can be optimize again, energy is released and packing resets.

It is not a big deal to scale this basic schema up. If you look at the various materials in cells, DNA and RNA have polar zones like its phosphate backbone as well as hydrogen bonding zones on the bases. These will not have the same impact on the water as protein. The potentials are lower with DNA and RNA helping to stabilize the water. You will need the extra reduction potential of packing protein to get these to pack.

Membrane materials has the opposite impact, since these are like light weight oil. These two large bookends of configurational capacitance; membrane and DNA/RNA creates a fixed potential gradient in the connecting cellular water, since the water is optimize differently in each zone. Cellular flow and hierarchy makes uses this gradient. It not only has potential energy but the various places in the gradient can support specific material equilibria. Ribosomes stay close to the DNA since the rRNA softens the impact of the protein; half way house.

Sometime materials are moved to other places in the grid, using ATP energy and scaffolding. This action will often position materials in higher energy places in the water gradient compared to their natural equilibrium.  This can be helpful if you need an extra  water boost for enzymatic activity.

All and all the cell has an average global set point for its total water optimization. The grid also has gradients due to different potential bulk organic materials. Input from the outside; food material, is typically reduced materials. These will add potential to the local and global water gradient. Potential energy forms in the water, that first impacts the membrane side of the gradient. This is felt globally by the water, with some affect all the way to the DNA via changes in the water equilibria; enzyme activity on genes.

Virus entering cells, break down into layers, with the genetic material ending up in the nucleus, This priority is expected because surface potentials for each material type will need to be find an equilibrium place in the main gradient.

Cells did not always have the modern bells and whistles. One would expect things to be much simpler in the beginning before and just after the first cells appear. Water was always there with the same basic need; optimize the hydrogen bonding grid within membrane bound compartments. The lipid bilayer is optimized by both the bulk water outside and the inside water within the membrane. These organics do not have much choice with this configuration normal if water is present.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Sculpturing Life before conception
« Reply #9 on: 08/02/2022 16:06:59 »
Quote from: puppypower on 08/02/2022 15:29:27
The logic for the water assumption is hydrogen bonding is a stronger secondary bonding force than the van dee Waals forces that hold organics together.
If it was that simple, camphor and polythene would have lower melting points than water.
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