[another_someone]

I was not talking about marketing, but about critical mass.

Nothing at all happens these days without a market for it, though.

In a crude sense, this is true - but one has to use a very broad definition of marketing to make that true - and in that broad definition, Linux has plenty of marketing behind it, but it mostly is not of a commercial nature.

In any case, why are we comparing Linux with Windows? They are different animals.
One works out of the box and the other is half of what you need - even though it is a good piece of kit.

I am not sure which you regard as being "half of what you need"?

An operating system is an operating system - which ever it is.  If you are talking about an operating system with bundled applications, most Linux distributions have a wealth of bundled applications, just as most modern Windows distributions have.

Where you may have a point is that Linux's greatest strength is also its greatest weakness - it has a lot of choice, but for many users, that very choice can be overwhelming - where Windows gives you one ways of doing anything, Linux will give you several, and you are asked to choose which way is best for you.

[lyner]

What, exactly, is your argument?
Linux is fine, as far as it goes. What more is there to say about it, except that it is only half of what is needed for anyone's computer. Unless 'someone' picks it up and runs with it, it will never be popular. It needs to be SOLD to millions of customers, along with the necessary interface and popular software and sold as part of a package. So far, it has not been.
In the long term, the World computing scene will change; by that time, both Windows and Linux will probably be history.   Something else will be there and that something will have been sold to the public because it will be a package that works straight away  for the guy who buys it and needs absolutely no specialist knowledge. Linux is not that sort of a beast; it gives you a choice - or,rather, it forces you to choose and build your own system.
How many people build their own car, or house or hifi?
Windows provides, so MS have convinced everyone,  everything you need. You have to hand it to them. The computer makers have come to the same conclusion because they bundle it with almost every machine that is sold. Apple are the only major producer and they are even more prescriptive about their products and have almost total control in every direction. At least the product is ok.
Linus may be the Real Ale of computing but there ain't a CAMRA to get it off the ground and there won't be because it is incomplete.

[DoctorBeaver]

I fail to understand what you mean by Linux being only half of what you need.

And you make it sound as if Linux is hard to install. I've tried a few variants - Red Hat, Apache, Debian - and, yes, Red Hat & Apache need to be configured if you install them raw. But Debian and, as far as I know, Ubuntu, do all the configuration automatically. You literally insert the CD (or run the download) and that's it. What could be easier?

[another_someone]

In the long term, the World computing scene will change; by that time, both Windows and Linux will probably be history.

I am not exactly sure what you (and Eth) mean by this?

Windows has been around since about 1990, and Linux is about 5 years younger (although the underlying Unix architecture has been around since the mid 1960s).

The Windows we run today is only vaguely related to the windows that existed in 1990, but it is still of the same lineage.  The same is true of Linux over its life.  The important thing in both cases is at no time could the providers of either operating system afford to make a clean break with the past, as that would lose them their existing user and software base.  Apple managed, with some difficulty, to make a break from the Mac OS to OS X, but Apple has a fairly small user base, and as you have said, they keep very tight control over their software base, and so it was just about possible to manage such a migration.  Neither Linux nor Microsoft keep quite such a tight control over its software base, and the sheer size of Microsoft's user base, makes a total break with the past impossible (even the migration of Windows from XP to Vista took longer than Microsoft has desired, despite the fact that it is only an incremental step in OS, and not a totally new OS paradigm).

It is very probable that the Windows and Linux's we will be using in 10 years time will look very different to what we have today, but I suspect that at no stage will either be able to afford a clear break with the past, and what we will be running will be something that can trace its lineage to what we have today (assuming we have general purpose PC's at all - and it may be that by then, computing will become so cheap, that the PC will be cheap, and we will simply have lots of special purpose computers for each task).

How many people build their own car, or house or hifi?

Linux users do not 'build' their PC - they select the features they desire.

This used to be a contrast between Japanese and German quality cars - the Japanese gave you every gadget you could imagine, but you had no choice in thge matter; whereas the Germans would allow you to select whether or not you wanted air-con, whether or not you wanted an opening sun roof, whether you wanted leather or velour seats, what size steering wheel you wanted, what quality of ICE you wanted, etc.  Linux is more like the German car approach, while Windows is more like the Japanese approach.

The computer makers have come to the same conclusion because they bundle it with almost every machine that is sold.

This is beginning to change, with Dell and HP I think both providing Linux as an option (but Linux has only been a serious contender in the last few years).

[DoctorBeaver]

George - what I meant was more of a comment on the likelihood of an African software industry ever happening. Personally, I consider that a very remote possibility. The educational infrastructure is not there and the socio-political structure of most African countries would suggest that it will not be in the forseeable future.

Far more likely is a Chinese, S E Asian or Indian software invasion. India is already the largest software producer in the world.

[DoctorBeaver]

Windows has been around since about 1990...

Yeah - 17 years & they still haven't ironed out all the bugs!

[another_someone]

George - what I meant was more of a comment on the likelihood of an African software industry ever happening. Personally, I consider that a very remote possibility. The educational infrastructure is not there and the socio-political structure of most African countries would suggest that it will not be in the forseeable future.

Far more likely is a Chinese, S E Asian or Indian software invasion. India is already the largest software producer in the world.

India certainly has a very large software sector - although a substantial proportion of that is outsourced from the West.

Eastern Europe (including Russia) also has a substantial software sector.

As for the infrastructure in Africa - if you look at much of the computer industry (in fact, most new industries), they develop in hot spots - so you don't need a good infrastructure throughout the continent, only to have enough talent in one or two localities (this is certainly true of India - where despite its very rapid advancement in some urban settings, it still is very backward in much of its rural hinterland).

[lyner]

Linux users do not 'build' their PC - they select the features they desire.

Yes - that's what you or I might do. BUT you know what you're doing.
Adding software to get what you want is building. If you don't know what you need or want, you can't do it. There is a lot of really low grade utility software, sold for PCs - the sort you find on racks in Maplin and the like. People are reluctant to buy it, even at silly, low prices - and they're mostly right too.
Why else do you think people pay through the nose for Windows (plus Office)?
This has the same ring to it as home cooking; most people get their food ready-processed or take-away. The only proper cooking in their lives is what they see done on TV. 

and it may be that by then, computing will become so cheap, that the PC will be cheap, and we will simply have lots of special purpose computers for each task

Yes -  that would put an end to the problem. It has started with the games console - few people play games seriously on their PC, any more.
The next thing will be that you buy a 'wordprocessor' just like in the Amstrad days.
You may buy a graphics tablet and do all your picture processing on that and then talk to your TV to do your video editing that way.
All your database stuff will be web based - with  a simple interface with your TV, or on your phone / PDA.
Problem solved.