[Senseless (OP)]

GOd is all powerful, even if you believe it hypothetically. Thus, to poke holes in a theory based on human standards when God even hypothetically is the creator of human standards is silly. {( and there are soooo many credible sourced to debunk the silly arguments too)

THe truth is all of you who believe that focus on the flood because you know if u were alive then, you would be sent to hell.

Greg Badalian

[Bin Laden]

Foolish infidel... i'm a muslim but even our worthy religion does not spout such condemnations against its fellow men...

I'll say one thing... The Muslim faith gets a hard time for the small group of extremists like me... you seem like a fellow extremist? fancy meeting for a cuppa?

catch me if you can!

[Senseless (OP)]

Your an athiest it seems, trying to be funny.

God is extreme, im not extreme, i love my enemies. God is estreme because he can be, HE is God, im not extreme

Greg Badalian

[Bin Laden]

I am not what you refer as an atheist. I believe in my own God. I don't like being accused of being fictitious as though i don't exist. I have been on this forum for a considerable time!

It does however anger me and i even find it laughable when the people always argue about religion on a science site. Such foolish infidelous behaviour bores me...

Let us discuss something current and interesting. I am concerned about global warming. I have noticed the snow has thinned outside my cave considerably faster over the past few years. Is this just a short term problem or are all the ice caps going to melt meaning you must all build your own arks?

catch me if you can!

[bezoar]

Bin,
Tell us what kind of dialysis you're doing on the run.  I'm curious to know what kind of electricity they have in your caves, or is it a primitive peritoneal dialysis?

[Exodus]

I didnt know Bin Laden had kidney problems... you learn something new every day...

[Ylide]

I'll never understand why Bible-thumpers try to pick fights with scientists.  Our knowledge is based on experiment, discovery, and logic.  We base our beliefs off of things we observe and we continue to scrutinize even things that we're pretty confident in.  Religion, however, is based entirely in stories handed down from the people that created it thousands of years ago.  It gains followers through fear of the unknown and threat of punishment.  (believe in Jebus or you burn in hell forever!  Nice compassionate God ya got there)  It's teachings are rarely, if ever, subject to scutiny or change.  Any good evidence or argument against religion is always cast off as the sly words of the Devil.  (way to cover all of your bases, but you're still left with blind faith)

Just look at our pal Bin Laden if you want a nice example of what blind faith in your religion can result in.  Sure, Christianity isn't all about slaying the infidels anymore, but take a good hard look at yourselves and the hate you bring against gays, Jews, and people of other faiths.

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[neilep]

The physicist Leo Szilard once announced to his friend Hans Bethe that he was thinking of keeping a diary: " I don't intend to publish. I am merely going to record the facts for the information of God."
" Don't you think God knows the facts ? " Berthe asked,
"yes ", said Szilard, "He knows the facts, but he does not know this version of the facts"

Hans Christian Von Baeyer, Taming the Atom

Don't know why I wrote that, thought it seemed appropriate.

'Men are the same as women...just inside out !'

[sallysat]

hey Bin one problem your english is remarkable, and if you say you learned it who was your teacher because you use UK english not USA english which would be most available to a Pakistani and certanily not Pakistan-english. have fun in your caves bcz you seem backed into a corner

[Titanscape]

quote:Originally posted by Senseless

GOd is all powerful, even if you believe it hypothetically. Thus, to poke holes in a theory based on human standards when God even hypothetically is the creator of human standards is silly. {( and there are soooo many credible sourced to debunk the silly arguments too)

THe truth is all of you who believe that focus on the flood because you know if u were alive then, you would be sent to hell.

Greg Badalian

Our standards as humans are fallen standards and are not God's. The flood was extreme but did good, certainly more good than the invasions of either Afganistan or in particular Iraq.

If you hold to the story of Genesis then you believe a description of an evil world of warlords, grossly unjust rapes, and all sorts of rebellion. Even cross species rape by dark angels or aliens with the world's finest women. Creating the giant warlord Nephilim race. It is better for us to be descended from Noah than the violent rebels that were killed instead. There are other strong reasons for why this is better. We hold to a good God and other ideas are worn away with thought. Because God is good and when we see order in His word and not just extremity and because Jesus believed it and because Peter, Paul and John turned Rome and Greece upside down with all their civil rationality, we hold to their words.

Titanscape

[Sandwalker]

Both religion and science have the same thing in common FAITH.

I just have more faith in the scientific principle, than dogma!

We can change our believe systems if better evidence comes along, and we can be wrong, but that is not a problem it is a oppotunity.

Was not Bin Laden educated in the UK, but then I could be wrong!

[Ylide]

quote:Originally posted by Sandwalker

Both religion and science have the same thing in common FAITH.

I wouldn't really call belief in science "faith."  Faith implies beliefs without evidence.  Even the most theoretical avenues of science have some sort of mathematical or experimental evidence to back them up.  I defy anyone to empirically support the truth of existing theology.

If you are willing to change your beliefs in the face of new evidence, (as scientists are) then you're not faithful, you're logical.  



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[Sandwalker]

But who did the experiment and supplied the reasoning!
 
We have 'faith' in the scientist and his results!

We have 'faith' that the paradigm of logic will supply a theory that is correct/true.

All scientific theories are an abstraction, they describe reality they are not the reality. We have faith that they describe reality correctly, but as quantum mechanics, relativity and newtonian mechanics shows they are only as good as the observer and his observations and ideas.

Don't get me wrong, I beleive science provides answers that work, but we accept most of these scientific ideas as reality without question or personal experience that in itself is an act of faith.

Those writing the theories are the high priests (theologians) of science in whom we place our trust.

[gsmollin]

Yes, but they are open to criticism, even from you. If you can show that what they say is not always true, then you may have opened the door to a new understanding. Then other scientists, some of them are religious people, will go through that door and find new truths. It is the open forum for the exchange of ideas that separates science from dogma.

[Ultima]

How many flame topics are there about religion v' science, cant we have a separate forum for it...

Take this prime example:

quote:GOd is all powerful, even if you believe it hypothetically. Thus, to poke holes in a theory based on human standards when God even hypothetically is the creator of human standards is silly. {( and there are soooo many credible sourced to debunk the silly arguments too)

THe truth is all of you who believe that focus on the flood because you know if u were alive then, you would be sent to hell.

Greg Badalian

Has no relevance to "General Science" has poor capitalisation and spelling (which I don't mind since this is an international place) and is just plane argumentative.

wOw the world spins?

[neilep]

Matt...I've been thinking EXACTLY the same thing...I was thinking about creating a thread called ' Thread for all religous stuff only' or ' for all you religous people ,here's your thread ' or 'Please put all your religous stuff here '...but you know what ?...it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference....so I just didn't bother

'Men are the same as women...just inside out !'

[Ylide]

You can reproduce from documentation a described experiment.  There does not exist a single accepted scientific theory that has not been repeated experimentally by independent parties.  "Miracles" and "religious epiphanies" or whatever else religious fundies use to justify their beliefs cannot be reproduced.  

Stop trying to compare belief in science to belief in religion.  They aren't even close.

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[Sandwalker]

Hey guys, even religious extremists should be allowed their say (we all need a good laugh now and then).

I'm all for science, and in agreement with gsmollin on this topic, and believe that religion is for those who can not accept that the unknown is just that 'unknown', like UFO being replaced with Flying Saucer.

I suppose I'm a rational existentialist (Please check spelling), but then I might be delusional on that! (labels, labels).

But remember that any proof is only as good as the axioms it starts off with!.

And Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem wich states that 'the consistency of a deductive system cannot be established using the system itself'!

Check out these sites.
http://plus.maths.org/issue7/features/proof1/
http://pass.maths.org.uk/issue9/features/proof3/index.html

[Ylide]

I'm not saying fundies shouldn't be allowed to speak their minds...it's just that what they speak is often insulting and offensive to those who are not of a like mind.  The whole "You're going to burn in hell, sinner" thing pisses me right off.  It's viral.  It converts people through fear, uncertainty, and doubt.  Ever hear of Pascal's Wager?  It's basically about being a Christian "just in case."  

I'm all for free speech, but you damn well better be able to handle the consequences when your speech invokes anger or outrage in your audience.  You play with YOUR imaginary friends and I'll play with mine and we'll all be happy.





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[neilep]

.....the very method of fundies patronising way of preaching manifests itself in such negative consequences , that it is fuel for so much disdain...they are inflexible and unyielding in purpose, principle, or temper.....and for me it is this profound state of mind that they project that really pisses me off........yes, speak freely but they should allow others to debate without the pious belittling 'higher than thou' reubuttal attitude and the inability to compromise on thought......something which for some is beyond comprehension .


'Men are the same as women...just inside out !'