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  4. Is there a minimum-sized unit of time?
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Is there a minimum-sized unit of time?

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Offline Ultima (OP)

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Is there a minimum-sized unit of time?
« on: 04/09/2004 18:58:46 »
I don’t know if this has been asked before but is there a minimum instance of time for something to happen in? It just seems strange that everything appears to be quanta-sized except for time… If time is treated as a dimension… why isn’t it quanta-sized also like the plank length???? I have no idea about QM but it always appeared odd to me that time tends to just be continuous and used in physics to represent change in something??? Or is time more of something humans perceive but has no actual realisation within any framework of the universe? I was reading how a lot of how we perceive time... such as it "moving forward" is to help our brain deal with increasingly complex changing events such as catching a butterfly or something, but may hold no real insight as to the nature of time...

wOw the world spins?
« Last Edit: 05/01/2009 23:24:07 by chris »
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Offline Observer101

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Re: Is there a minimum-sized unit of time?
« Reply #1 on: 04/09/2004 21:08:04 »
How about the TIME required to go plank length at V=c?

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Offline gsmollin

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Re: Is there a minimum-sized unit of time?
« Reply #2 on: 05/09/2004 03:58:19 »
Here is a link that develops Planck length, time, mass, temperature, and density.

http://www.fact-index.com/n/na/natural_units.html
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Offline Ultima (OP)

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Re: Is there a minimum-sized unit of time?
« Reply #3 on: 05/09/2004 15:41:41 »
Thanks for the link :D

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Offline Ylide

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Re: Is there a minimum-sized unit of time?
« Reply #4 on: 14/09/2004 10:12:01 »
Quick, someone derive the formula for the Planck mole.



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Offline tweener

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Re: Is there a minimum-sized unit of time?
« Reply #5 on: 15/09/2004 02:43:14 »
quote:
Originally posted by Ylide

Quick, someone derive the formula for the Planck mole.



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Offline qpan

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Re: Is there a minimum-sized unit of time?
« Reply #6 on: 17/09/2004 11:08:22 »
Hmm- it strikes me that the Planck mass is actually pretty large, at least compared with the others.
Planck mass = 0.000021 grams.
Compared with the rest (which are all 10^-35 ish), that is quite a significant size!

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« Last Edit: 17/09/2004 11:09:15 by qpan »
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Offline Observer101

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Re: Is there a minimum-sized unit of time?
« Reply #7 on: 18/09/2004 06:17:03 »
This should confuse things a bit...

http://www.cpt.univ-mrs.fr/~rovelli/rovelli.html [nofollow]

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Offline Mr. Scientist

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Re: Is there a minimum-sized unit of time?
« Reply #8 on: 04/01/2009 15:43:07 »
The Planck Time may i add which is something like 10^-44 which a particle can make a quantum action under, MUST also occur in an equally infinitesimal space called the Planck Space which is 10^-33.
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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Re: Is there a minimum-sized unit of time?
« Reply #9 on: 04/01/2009 16:10:52 »
Quote from: qpan on 17/09/2004 11:08:22
Hmm- it strikes me that the Planck mass is actually pretty large, at least compared with the others.
Planck mass = 0.000021 grams.
Compared with the rest (which are all 10^-35 ish), that is quite a significant size!

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And there you have it - the hierarchy problem!
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Offline Mr. Scientist

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Re: Is there a minimum-sized unit of time?
« Reply #10 on: 04/01/2009 16:19:05 »
I have a theory, that the hierarchy problem is merely a universe undergoing the most simplest structures which to us seem complex at best. We have limited means therego, of our ability to reduce such complex systems to simple understanding, so maybe the complexity of the universe is in fact ourselves reflecting our inabilities to describe it fully.
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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Re: Is there a minimum-sized unit of time?
« Reply #11 on: 04/01/2009 18:01:49 »
Quote from: Mr. Scientist on 04/01/2009 16:19:05
I have a theory, that the hierarchy problem is merely a universe undergoing the most simplest structures which to us seem complex at best. We have limited means therego, of our ability to reduce such complex systems to simple understanding, so maybe the complexity of the universe is in fact ourselves reflecting our inabilities to describe it fully.

I think I agree with you. I have often wondered if our theories are over-complicated and that there is something basic that we have not got quite right that would make everything a lot simpler.
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Offline LeeE

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Re: Is there a minimum-sized unit of time?
« Reply #12 on: 04/01/2009 18:51:17 »
Quote from: DoctorBeaver on 04/01/2009 18:01:49
Quote from: Mr. Scientist on 04/01/2009 16:19:05
I have a theory, that the hierarchy problem is merely a universe undergoing the most simplest structures which to us seem complex at best. We have limited means therego, of our ability to reduce such complex systems to simple understanding, so maybe the complexity of the universe is in fact ourselves reflecting our inabilities to describe it fully.

I think I agree with you. I have often wondered if our theories are over-complicated and that there is something basic that we have not got quite right that would make everything a lot simpler.

Same here too.
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Offline yor_on

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Re: Is there a minimum-sized unit of time?
« Reply #13 on: 05/01/2009 08:28:19 »
Time is a flow?
Forget about 'Planck time'

Time is events?
Hola Planck:)

http://www.thekeyboard.org.uk/What%20is%20Time.htm
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Offline Mr. Scientist

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Re: Is there a minimum-sized unit of time?
« Reply #14 on: 05/01/2009 16:24:15 »
Time is however, not really a flow at all. Only psychologically can it have a flow. Outside of psychology of the mind, time is fast instants of flashes and stops.
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Offline LeeE

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Re: Is there a minimum-sized unit of time?
« Reply #15 on: 05/01/2009 19:50:39 »
Quote from: Mr. Scientist on 05/01/2009 16:24:15
Time is however, not really a flow at all. Only psychologically can it have a flow. Outside of psychology of the mind, time is fast instants of flashes and stops.

Weeell...  that's debatable.  Either: we could occupy just a point in time, or we could occupy a region in time.  Relativity is happy with occupying a point but QM doesn't like zeros and would favour a region.  I would agree though, that if we occupy a point in time then our movement through it would be in discrete steps, and what is more, at a constant apparent speed within that time-frame, equivalent to 'c'.
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Offline Mr. Scientist

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Re: Is there a minimum-sized unit of time?
« Reply #16 on: 05/01/2009 20:06:56 »
Quote from: LeeE on 05/01/2009 19:50:39
Quote from: Mr. Scientist on 05/01/2009 16:24:15
Time is however, not really a flow at all. Only psychologically can it have a flow. Outside of psychology of the mind, time is fast instants of flashes and stops.

Weeell...  that's debatable.  Either: we could occupy just a point in time, or we could occupy a region in time.  Relativity is happy with occupying a point but QM doesn't like zeros and would favour a region.  I would agree though, that if we occupy a point in time then our movement through it would be in discrete steps, and what is more, at a constant apparent speed within that time-frame, equivalent to 'c'.

Well, you more or less answered this yourself. Do you know how?
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Offline LeeE

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Re: Is there a minimum-sized unit of time?
« Reply #17 on: 05/01/2009 20:58:21 »
Logically, any object that has zero length in the direction that it is traveling in can only move in discrete steps because any movement away from it's original location must be greater than zero.  Regardless of how small the distance is, it must, even if infinitely small, be > 0 for it to have moved at all.  Conversely, an object with non-zero length can move while occupying, for a period of time, the same point in space.  It really comes down to how precisely you can locate something; the entirety of a zero length object can be located by a single precise coordinate but the entirety an object with length cannot because it occupies a region.  Now you could choose to pick a particular datum point along the length of the object, and work with that, but that would not describe the entire object.
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Offline yor_on

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Is there a minimum-sized unit of time?
« Reply #18 on: 06/01/2009 00:27:25 »
That would be correct if considered an expression by our other three dimensions (in time:)

But time itself?
It seems to me that you can see 'time' as a 'field' if you like, like gravity, like space?
And what would this way of looking do to 'distance' and 'motion'?

At times 'shrunk', as when looking at spacetime from being at rest with the frame of an accelerating object.
But seen like I describe it still a field, experienced as a 'flow' when described from any frame of reference.
And never 'uniform' except when you're 'at rest' with what you're comparing too.
Always a 'relation'.

Yep, now I'm deep ::))
I do need to go to bed...

And that's what we do, isn't it:)
Ah, not go to bed, even if we do..

But 'observing' from inside 'reference frames'?
We do have an 'arrow of time' though.
And that's mighty confusing, and interesting.





« Last Edit: 06/01/2009 00:40:41 by yor_on »
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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Is there a minimum-sized unit of time?
« Reply #19 on: 06/01/2009 10:06:35 »
Quote from: LeeE on 05/01/2009 20:58:21
Logically, any object that has zero length in the direction that it is traveling in can only move in discrete steps because any movement away from it's original location must be greater than zero.

That's the sort of thing I hate about physics - zeros (and infinities). My little brain can't wrap itself around something having zero length.
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