[Make it Lady (OP)]

David Barrowman, the gay actor (who is very sexy) is going to do a television programme about why he is gay. He is going to do lots of scientific tests and phycological tests to see if homosexuality is nature or nurture related or both. I'll post more dtails of the programme when they are published.

What do you think. Do we have any personal and scientific opinion on this.

[RD]

Birth Order May Affect Homosexuality
Researcher Says Study Supports Idea That Sexual Orientation Starts Before Birth
By Miranda Hitti
WebMD Health NewsReviewed by Louise Chang, MDJune 26, 2006 --

Men may be more likely to be homosexual if they share their birth mother with older brothers, even if they didn't grow up with those brothers.

"These results strongly suggest a prenatal origin to the fraternal birth-order effect," writes Canada's Anthony Bogaert, PhD, in the early online edition of Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences...

Bogaert's findings don't prove that birth order determines sexual orientation. However, Bogaert writes that the study supports the idea that sexual orientation starts before birth.

http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/news/20060626/birth-order-may-affect-homosexuality

[Bored chemist]

(Totally unscientific speculation alert)
With something as complex as human sexual behaviour I think pretty near anything can affect it.

[Make it Lady (OP)]

The programme is on tomorrow!!!

www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pro...ced_jbarrowman

I hope all people abroad will get it on the BBC iplayer.

[RD]

The programme is on tomorrow!!!

www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pro...ced_jbarrowman

I hope all people abroad will get it on the BBC iplayer.

Your link is 404.

I think this is it...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/proginfo/tv/wk30/unplaced.shtml#unplaced_jbarrowman

[Make it Lady (OP)]

Soz, didn't check it.

[opus]

john..........

[Make it Lady (OP)]

Watched the program and the science was very woolly it left John believing that his homosexuality was a result of "something biological" that happened in the womb. He had the same X chromosome as his straight brother so no DNA fault.

What I found most interesting was that his spacial awareness was shown to be very feminine in that he had to rotate the map in order to navigate. He didn't however have feminine hand structure which is a sign of a feminine brain. He was however the third son in the family.
His parents were originally from Glasgow and moved to America when John was young. The parent have Scottish accents. John usually speaks with an American accent but as soon as he worked into his family home he started talking in a Scottish accent. I found this very interesting too.

[that mad man]

Sorry I did not see it as I don't have or watch TV.

But one thing does make me wonder, why do we also get gay animals as homosexuality seems to be common with them too. You can have homosexual horses, dogs, sheep (sorry neil), cattle etc and many other types of animal exhibit this behaviour so its not exclusive to humans.

When males are confined in a male environment for a long time they may have been "straight" when they started out but after years of confinement they can exhibit homosexual behaviour. Perhaps people just feel the need to be loved and if they cant get it the conventional way they change their ideas. How it starts and whether it matters is another thing.

I have to agree with bored chemist in that I think lots of variables can affect ones choice. I know several lesbians and when asked what caused them to be lesbian most said it was because they wanted love and sex and were free from being beaten by their male partners. Sadly the latter seems to happen a lot.

The odd thing is you don't get many lesbian animals so perhaps male testosterone levels may be something to look into as it seems to be a very powerful drug.

[ukmicky]

But one thing does make me wonder, why do we also get gay animals as homosexuality seems to be common with them too. You can have homosexual horses, dogs, sheep (sorry neil), cattle etc and many other types of animal exhibit this behaviour so its not exclusive to humans.

Really how do you know that for a fact.


I have never seen a GAY animal and i have never seen evidence of such .

I have seen animals who have got so worked up and driven it will attempt to mount and have sex with another male of the same species ,another species or any thing which will help them to get over their need to to have sex there and then. but never a gay animal, an animal which it has been proven to only like the have sex with animals of the same sex and species when given the choice.  Present a female dog on heat to one of these supposed homosexual dogs or other animal and i bet it would mount the female rather than a male near by.

[BenV]

Though there was the highly publicised gay penguins at central park zoo - they pair for life, and opted to be a male-male couple.  Of course, the artificial nature of being in a zoo may mean this isn't found in nature...

[that mad man]

My girlfriend had a horse that was gay in the sense it preferred to mount male horses and not female ones despite hormones.

Just because you personally have not seen one does not mean that there are none around as there seems to be plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise.

Some of our UK politicians have stated they had a gay relationship in the past and yet are now married. Does that now mean that the term Gay should be revised to dissclude those who may just be bi-sexual and how do we check that that is the case?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6066606.stm

As the clip states penguins can also form same sex partnerships but as stated it may be because of many reasons and not just because of a so called Gay gene or genetics.

We need more sane study and discussion and not a homophobic reaction as soon as the word "Gay" is mentioned.

[that mad man]

BenV,  just pipped me to the post on that. []

[ukmicky]

We need more sane study and discussion and not a homophobic reaction as soon as the word "Gay" is mentioned.

So far i haven't read anything which i would class as a homophobic reaction in this thread. Anyway this is not a discussion about whether its right or wrong and as i believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the subject and therefore i wouldn't take part in such a discussion if it were.

On the subject of gay animals however as said a study would be needed to see if theses animal actions are really due to the animals being truly Homosexual or if their are other reasons for the apparent behaviour. Its relatively easy to determine homosexuality amongst humans as we are able to voice our opinions an feelings but could we ever really understand animal behaviour to the same level. I think not. 

[that mad man]

I beg to differ.

Its not an easy thing to determine homosexuality amongst humans or animals and that's my point and that's why we are discussing this now. David Barroman is voicing HIS opinions, just HIS opinions, but by voicing those opinions it leads to anecdotal evidence which is hardy scientific. Some here have already picked up on that! I like the colour pink, does that mean anything other than I like the colour? 

As far as this thread is concerned I'm glad that no one here has gone down that path and I was not indicating otherwise although it seems to be a common factor amongst some. The fact is that it masks any decent discussion (a bit like the PC craze) as some are biased from the start and are not prepared to listen to other evidence, and I don't mean anecdotal evidence.

There may be a clinical reason, a scientific reason even why some are gay but does it matter to most of those that are gay? no. It seems to matter more to those that are straight and cant understand or accept why people are the way they are.

PS:

Make it Lady did ask if we have any Personal or Scientific opinions on this.

[ukmicky]

And differ you may. 

I was thinking about continuing with this discussion but this kind of discussion never ends well ,at some stage someone will say something that someone will take exception too.

[that mad man]

Now you know what I mean or was trying to say, albeit badly, tis a pity though.

I for instance am celebut, have been for many years and get ridiculed because of it and now expect someone to say " why did you feel it necessary to say that"

Sometimes you just cant win.. []

Bedtime []

[ukmicky]

Night Night

[Make it Lady (OP)]

In the TV programme John said that he was very happy with whom he was but as the evidence mounted that it was a biological event and not something he had a choice over, he became very emotional. I think he is a fantastic role model for all young men coming out. It obviously did matter to him and other gay men that they are gay for a reason. I think the BBC have been great in having a hero who is bi-sexual and very open about it.
In British Schools teachers are not allowed to openly condone homosexuality so unfortunately children can't come to teachers for advice about their sexuality and if they are being bullied it is hard for teachers to talk to children about homophobia. I think this is so wrong. It is the last minority that don't have full protection.
I'm glad all contributers have been very mature and I thank you for that.