[blaze]

"The cure for ALL disease is right under their noses, if they'd just open their eyes."
If the cure is to avoid artificial electromagnetic fields then nobody can have  died from disease befoer the invention of electricity.

Allow me to correct myself - the cure for all MODERN diseases.  I must not have made myself clear. The cause of all disease prior to the invention of electricity was caused by parasitic infections and infectious disease, perhaps from eating PORK and SHELLFISH, or even meats in general. And if you won't buy that one, I'm just going to tell you it is SIN.

ASD occurs in remote areas of the world where there is little, or zero, EMF. I would be interested (or substitute "amused" for "interested" if you so wish) to hear your "theories" as to how that could be.

Autism is caused by an accumulation of heavy metals and other toxins in the brain, provoked by exposure to EMF/RF. In fact, the exposure in many cases may even begin prenatally. There is also likely an infectious disease or parasitic component to autism that works together with EMF/RF exposure to cause autism, maybe even Lyme...

http://www.publichealthalert.org/Articles/marybudinger/liaf.htm

I keep directing people on here to the Bioinitiative Report though when I find them reducing an illness down to its genes.

http://www.bioinitiative.org/report/index.htm

SECTION 5: Evidence for Effects on Gene and Protein Expression (Transcriptomic and Proteomic Research)
Dr. Xu and Dr. Chen

SECTION 6: Evidence for Genotoxic Effects – RFR and ELF DNA Damage
Dr. Lai

SECTION 8: Evidence for Effects on Immune Function
Dr. Johansson

Is there something you don't like about the Bioiniative Report? Are the doctors who produced this report inferior in some way? Please see Sections 5, 6, and 8 - every one of these begins with the word 'evidence'.

And you show me any zero areas of EMF/RF in this world where humans exist, and I'll pack my bags. They don't exist. And again 'little EMF' does not necessarily mean no effects or lesser effects. Sometimes these lower levels are even more destructive, simply because they are closer to the biological frequencies humans depend on.

By the way, my understanding was that the twins' chromosomes grow more and more dissimilar as the years progress. Am I understanding that incorrectly?...

"Researchers have found that as identical twins age, the patterns of chemical changes to their chromosomes grow increasingly dissimilar."

[paul.fr]

John Down first described Down's Syndrome in 1866. Hmmm, still not much EMF around, eh? Incidentally, he was the superintendant of the Earlswood Asylum for Idiots. Have you ever been there?

I wonder if you should open this question up to a vote from the forum members?

[blaze]

It says he described Down - did he prove that what he was describing was a true case of Down without modern methods of testing? Or is he off the hook because he comes from another century?

By the way, the process of the discovery of electricity (or any of these advancements, such as radio, etc...) is a process. These discoverers didn't just wake up one day and invent a light bulb one afternoon. They spent time in a laboratory, messing around with what turned out to be electricity.

It's possible even the small amounts generated during their initial experiments, before the actual invention was released and in widespread use, affected those in the vicinity.

And don't forget what the governments of the world may have been doing.

[Bored chemist]

"And don't forget what the governments of the world may have been doing."
Gneerally contributing, indirectly, to the increased lifespan ove the last couple of centuries.

[blaze]

Not really. Years ago people were dying of things like infection at a young age. We may be living longer in comparison to those living a couple of generations ago, but are we living healthier? No way.

My parents were still not on any medications at my age - they were still very active and essentially healthy - yet I've already run the gambit of a variety of prescription drugs and still feel like I'm 90. Kids today are being medicated with ADHD drugs and antidepressants and drugs for juvenile diabetes and high blood pressure. Were kids generations ago on all these meds? At least half the population from age 0 to death are on long-term prescription medications today for some chronic health problem.

And what about Noah?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah

Noah died 350 years after the Flood, at the age of 950 ,[8] the last of the immensely long-lived antediluvian Patriarchs. The maximum human lifespan, as depicted by the Bible, diminishes rapidly thereafter, from as much as 900 years to the 120 years of Moses within just a few generations. Another few generations later, lifespans were reported to be less than 100 years on average.

So really, when you think about it, we're not really doing any better than those who lived after Noah. In fact, I know several people personally who died in middle age, not what we'd consider old age - so it would seem we're even doing worse than those who lived after Noah, when modern medical therapies and intervention did not yet exist. That ought to tell you something right there, though I'm sure you'll try to argue the fact that Noah was 900 years old - and I'll bet he didn't even need Viagra.

[BenV]

I think you'll struggle to have Noah, a fictional character, accepted in this discussion. To many people on this forum, it's a bit like me saying 'but Legolas in the Lord of the Rings was over 2000 years old...'

[that mad man]

blaze.

I have been reading what you have said and can only come to the conclusion that God is to blame.

EMF has been around since the beginning of the planet and gets created by the atmosphere and called lightning. To use your reasoning and your God theory the lightning and any EMF or EMP pulse must have been caused by God. Therefore the genes you have that were made by God are also affected or destroyed by the same God whether the Genes were perfect or not to start with.

Now think logically about Noah and the few others that had a 900 years plus life.
 
If their lifespan WAS that long how come the average amount of children born during that time was only 3? As God commanded "be fruitful and multiply," you would expect someone who attained that age and not in need of Viagra to have sired many many more children.

Perhaps the rain and lightning EMF/EMP affected their ability to reproduce which again would be Gods fault.

Unfortunately the one who supposedly wrote this down much later was a liar and cheat and also wanted for murder.

[DoctorBeaver]

And you show me any zero areas of EMF/RF in this world where humans exist, and I'll pack my bags. They don't exist. And again 'little EMF' does not necessarily mean no effects or lesser effects. Sometimes these lower levels are even more destructive, simply because they are closer to the biological frequencies humans depend on.

I hadn't realised that "little" meant the same as "lower". I have been living under a misapprehension all my life!

I spent a lot of time on the Serengeti. There were vast areas where you couldn't get anything on the car radio except static. It's different now with mobile phone & SatNav coverage. I met a Maasai child who had lived on the Serengeti all his life and he presented with ASD. Maybe the giraffes were beaming signals into his mother during pregnancy.

Autism is caused by an accumulation of heavy metals and other toxins in the brain, provoked by exposure to EMF/RF

So exposure to EMF/RF causes heavy metals to accumulate in the brain? That's as believeable as Jonah staying alive inside a whale's belly!

It says he described Down - did he prove that what he was describing was a true case of Down without modern methods of testing? Or is he off the hook because he comes from another century?

Oh come on. Down describes the syndrome that is named after him and you ask if what he was describing was truly Down's? That's as absurd as saying that mutineers from the Bounty landed on an island and called it Norfolk Island, but then asking how we know it really was Norfolk Island they landed on.

In any case, can you name any other syndrome or disease that presents in the same way as Down's?

Noah died 350 years after the Flood, at the age of 950 , the last of the immensely long-lived antediluvian Patriarchs. The maximum human lifespan, as depicted by the Bible, diminishes rapidly thereafter, from as much as 900 years to the 120 years of Moses within just a few generations. Another few generations later, lifespans were reported to be less than 100 years on average.

It is now generally accepted among theologians that in the earlier parts of the Old Testament, years were actually months. That would still have made Noah, Methuselah etc very old for that era when they died (in their 80s), but it is much more feasible. Plus, of course, if you take the lifespans and genealogy from the OT literally, the Earth is only 5000 years old (or thereabouts). Are you arguing also that 5000 years is the true age of the Earth? If not, then you are cherry-picking those parts you wish to believe.

That is something that really pisses me off about some Christians. You tell people that such-and-such must be true because it says so in the Bible, but then say that another part is allegorical.

[Bored chemist]

"It says he described Down - did he prove that what he was describing was a true case of Down without modern methods of testing? Or is he off the hook because he comes from another century?"
When I was at primary school there was a class of kids there with learning difficulties. Even as kids we realised that 2 of them seemed similar. As it happens their names were Dianne and Anthony. Both of them had flat faces, were overweight and had "something odd about their eyes". At the time we refered to these two (and only those two) as the "mongs". Back then I would have had no understanding of the racial overtones of that name. I also would have had no more idea about chromosomal abnormailities than Dr Down; but I, like the rest of  my schoolmates, could identify the symptoms. A bunch of 200th century primary schoolkids could identify this condition.
It would be ridiculous to think that Dr Down couldn't.

Anyway, since we have no contemporary record of Noah's life there is no evidence for his age at death.

[BenV]

Either way - shall we get back to topic?  No more about Down, god or EM fields, and no more being facetious...

Is there an genetic component that makes one more prone to nicotine addiction?  Parents that smoke often have children that smoke, but I expect it's impossible to tease nature from nurture in those cases.

[blaze]

If their lifespan WAS that long how come the average amount of children born during that time was only 3? As God commanded "be fruitful and multiply," you would expect someone who attained that age and not in need of Viagra to have sired many many more children.

Would you have time for lots of kids if you were busy building an ark and taking care of all those animals? Maybe he hurt his back or just plain smelled bad?

(Sorry Ben, I couldn't resist;)

[Flyberius]

For example, read this story...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-510128/Miracle-girl-liver-transplant-changed-blood-type.html

The Daily mail? lolololololol

[blaze]

What's wrong with the Daily Mail? I read this story elsewhere, too, but this was the link I pulled up in my search.

[DoctorBeaver]

Either way - shall we get back to topic?  No more about Down, god or EM fields, and no more being facetious...

Is there an genetic component that makes one more prone to nicotine addiction?  Parents that smoke often have children that smoke, but I expect it's impossible to tease nature from nurture in those cases.

I already answered the question.

[blaze]

My mom smoked and I smoke, but neither of my sisters smoke.

Actually, if I didn't smoke in the presence of all this electrosmog, I'd never have a bowel movement.

[Bored chemist]

We really need a quote of the week thread somewhere in chatting.
"Actually, if I didn't smoke in the presence of all this electrosmog, I'd never have a bowel movement." is priceless.

[Pseudogene]

My mom smoked and I smoke, but neither of my sisters smoke.

Your sisters lack of smoking does not discount a genetic predeliction to nicotine addiction.  The gold standard for testing a genetic association would be a twin study, whereby monozygotic twins are enrolled with one as a smoker and the other not.  You then need sufficient pairs to be able to detect a genetic influence with sufficient statistical power to be able to confidently state there is a genetic association to nicotine addiction. 

Following that you can then start to conduct candidate-gene approaches whereby polymorphic sites within genes (including the requisite regulatory elements) are genotyped and analysed in more cohorts of smokers (cases) and non-smokers (controls).  Further to this it would require additional stratification of non-smokers and ex-smokers to determine a more robust answer.

I'd be pretty confident in stating that there is a genetic predisposition for nicotine addiction on the grounds that our entire biology is underpinned by our genetics.  Before anyone jumps the gun, that is NOT genetic determinism, its a patent fact.  The complex interplay of biological and environmental factors is what leads to nicotine addiction, but those biological processes are ultimately the product of our genes and their complex interactions. 

If I recall there were a few articles a couple of months back published in Nature and Nature Genetics that discussed lung cancer, but was also to do with nicotinic receptors.

[DoctorBeaver]

Pseudogene - is this something like that Nature article you mentioned?

Lung cancers exhibit multiple genetic lesions including mutations activating the dominant cellular proto-oncogenes as well as those inactivating the recessive or "tumor suppressor" genes. Candidate tumor suppressor genes include those on chromosomes 1p, 1q, 3p14, 3p21.3, 3p25 (VHL gene), 5q21 (APC/MCC gene cluster), 9p21-22 (interferon gene cluster), 11p, 13q (rb gene), 16p24, and 17p (p53 gene). Mutations in p53 inactivate its transcriptional activity, while replacement of a wild-type p53 in lung cancer cells inhibits growth and tumorigenicity suggesting that p53 acts as a master growth regulatory switch. Lung cancer cells exhibit several positive autocrine growth factor loops and express nicotine receptors which could function as tumor promoting systems. In addition, they express a negative autocrine loop involving opioids and their receptors which is reversed by nicotine acting through nicotinic acetylcholine receptors. The presence of nicotine receptors suggests nicotine or its metabolites may play a direct role in lung cancer pathogenesis.

from http://www.ionchannels.org/showabstract.php?pmid=8462339&redirect=yes&terms=%22nicotine+receptors%22+%22lung+cancer%22

[Pseudogene]

That's what I was thinking of Doc, I obviously didn't read the abstract properly.  Interesting set of articles nonetheless.

[blaze]

Somebody on one of these threads told me I couldn't compare twins - even identical twins.

And surprise surprise - exposure to EMF does have an effect on acetylcholine.

EMF and Acetylcholine:

http://csifcem.free.fr/ach.html