[Andrew K Fletcher (OP)]

Made a prediction based on a theory about gravity driving the circulation. That prediction was that varicose veins would greatly improve when a flat bed is avoided in favour of an inclined bed set at a five degree to the horizontal slope affording the head to be higher than the feet. This is called Inclined Bed Therapy, or IBT for short.

The idea was that if we could show photographically these improvements and document them as they occur it would stimulate some interest from the doctors and scientists on this forum and at least gain some comments and questions.

Well, thanks to Alun and a few others who are trying IBT, we now have that compelling photographic evidence and would like to move this forward by inviting doctors and nurses to try to disprove the effects of head up tilt instead of sleeping flat for people with varicose veins and oedema.

The main question that arises from the research and results is why has this been ignored by the many thousands of people who have viewed the thread, many of whom are doctors and nurses?

Why do we needlessly operate on varicose veins when simply changing the angle of our bed will address the pressure differences in the veins and cause them to become pulled in rather than bulging out.

1994 when this was first noticed. Many more people have benefited from this since then. Why has it not become mainstream? Why are you and your colleagues still relying on literature that is obviously in need of some serious revision?

We need your help to progress this further. Please do not walk away and pretend it never happened. It has happened and we now have the photographs online to prove it happened!

Looking forward to your replies with interest.

Andrew K Fletcher


http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=9843.150




Photographs from Alun provide compelling evidence that varicose veins are caused by pressure not be defective valves. Alun has not had any surgery! Valve damage in this case has been proven to be erroneous!

[Andrew K Fletcher (OP)]

51 views and not a single comment?

[Bored chemist]

Did I  ask if there was a double blind trial?
Single blind would do for a start.

[Andrew K Fletcher (OP)]

I'm gain. Do you know anyone who might be up for testing IBT in a university, sleep study centre or hospital? Say the word and we can get started. Professor Ernst at Exeter University and his colleagues are keen. Have the letter expressing their interest at hand. My MP Adrian Sanders is very keen to get this study set up. Peter Lewis and Celeste, two vascular surgeons also stated they would like to see a study. How do we get from A to B?

[Andrew K Fletcher (OP)]

Prediction   4 weeks and we will prove the efficacy of IBT on oedema and varicose veins!

[RD]

I think it has already been established that elevating legs with varicose veins gives temporary relief ...

Although individual varicose veins can be removed or eliminated by surgery or injection therapy, the disorder cannot be cured. Thus, treatment mainly relieves symptoms, improves appearance, and prevents complications. Elevating the legs—by lying down or using a footstool when sitting—relieves the symptoms of varicose veins but does not prevent new varicose veins from forming.

http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec03/ch036/ch036d.html

To scientifically prove that IBT has beneficial effects you will need some way of objectively measuring any improvement.
Simply asking participants if they feel IBT has improved their condition. (i.e. self-assessment) is not a reliable method of measuring the outcome.

PS
If I had oedema I'd rather the fluid was in my legs than accumulating in my chest and obstructing the function of my heart and lungs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_overload

[Andrew K Fletcher (OP)]

RD Thank You

IBT is tilting the bed in the opposite direction to which the current literature advises- for giving temporary relief, as you mention in your quote. The Varicose vein thread has highly significant photographs of before and after IBT, which is to raise the bed at the head end by five degrees to the horizontal sloping but a level surface as in the picture in the VV thread.

The literature states raising the legs higher or level with the heart provides some temporary relief from oedema. However many people who have responded to IBT had indeed tried the medical advice and at first found it difficult to understand why something so simple could work when surgery and head down tilt often fail with increased risk of further complications, including gangrene, infection, thrombosis, amputation, and frequent repeated operations for failures are costing the UK NHS in excess of £500 million a year for surgery alone. A further 600 million for ulcer and after care.

The problem is that the medical profession is hanging on to a belief rather than sound science in support of their surgery approach to resolve varicose veins and oedema. But they have failed to grasp what changes the pressure inside the veins and in doing so will never be able to resolve these terrible conditions. IBT on the other hand addresses the cause by avoiding flat bedrest. A series of photographs have been placed on the varicose veins study thread to show clearly how swollen veins are pulled in using a sound understanding of how circulation relies on gravity to assist flow. Again current literature erroneously believes that we constantly struggle against gravity and that the heart is pumping against the pull of gravity when the pictures speak volumes against this nonsense.

1 set of photographs in particular deal with Alun while laying on the inclined bed in the morning showing his veins to be deflated to the point where they look normal.

Another erroneous idea from the literature is that blood will pool around the ankles. It does nothing of the kind! The circulation by name is circular by nature in that we have a flow and a return flow.

And once we have altered the pressure inside the vein that was causing the bulging, the oedema problem is also resolved as the fluid flow from the veins to the skin is completely reversed, again posts on the VV thread show this to be correct.

Now we could argue that a study is required to determine minute changes as and when they occur, or indeed if they do not occur using IBT. Again I ask you to view the pictures. Because they do provide us with a visual measurement.

So this question arises: Patient care or surgeons profit?

I think it has already been established that elevating legs with varicose veins gives temporary relief ...

Although individual varicose veins can be removed or eliminated by surgery or injection therapy, the disorder cannot be cured. Thus, treatment mainly relieves symptoms, improves appearance, and prevents complications. Elevating the legs—by lying down or using a footstool when sitting—relieves the symptoms of varicose veins but does not prevent new varicose veins from forming.

http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec03/ch036/ch036d.html

To scientifically prove that IBT has beneficial effects you will need some way of objectively measuring any improvement.
Simply asking participants if they feel IBT has improved their condition. (i.e. self-assessment) is not a reliable method of measuring the outcome.

PS
If I had oedema I'd rather the fluid was in my legs than accumulating in my chest and obstructing the function of my heart and lungs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_overload

[RD]

Another erroneous idea from the literature is that blood will pool around the ankles. It does nothing of the kind! The circulation by name is circular by nature in that we have a flow and a return flow.

If you wish to measure blood flow rates there are ultrasonic doppler gadgets which can do that ...

 [ Invalid Attachment ]

Pole test for measurement of ankle pressures in patients with calcified vessels: the Doppler probe is placed over a patent pedal artery and the foot raised against a pole that is calibrated in mm Hg. The point at which the pedal signal disappears is taken as the ankle pressure

http://student.bmj.com/back_issues/0800/education/270.html

[NobodySavedMe]

The medical profession is one of the most corrupt and filled with people who prefer the status quo.

The established voodoo boys don't want any outsider coming in and telling them what to do or challenging them.

The whole history of the medical profession,if you bother reading your medical history,is filled with stick in the mud boys who fought tooth and nail against any progress.Harvey was nearly hanged by the medical mafia when he claimed blood circulates in the body.

Most doctors are in the pay of Pharmaceutical companies who give out free gifts/holidays disguised as conferences and get them to give their patients filled with dangerous patented,money making,expensive but toxic and useless, prescription drugs.

I just hear that many drug companies are using fake peer reviewers on their own payroll to write research articles about their own drugs!

This is called fraud.

I find most doctors incredibly arrogant,patronising and just want you to shut up and accept what they say.

Fact is most doctors are just overpaid pill pushers who get paid 1/4 a million a year.

For any advance or new thinking in the medial profession you have to wait for the old gays to die out.

[BenV]

I'm sorry you feel that way.  Every doctor I have ever met got into medicine in order to help people.  You may have had bad experiences, but I'm afraid that the world simply isn't like that, and the medical profession is not as you imagine.

Of course they favour the status quo - it's unethical to do anything until there is ample evidence that it's effective.

Also, pharma companies are not as bad as you think.  I'm sure there are bad apples, as there are in any industry (alternative medicine is just as bad - if not worse, given that they can get away with more due to the lower regulation).  It's simply unreasonable to claim that all pharma companies and their employees act out of greed and malice.

[Andrew K Fletcher (OP)]

I know there are many damned good doctors and nurses out there doing what they can for their patients with compassion and concern. My own doctors are wonderful people. But this does not change the fact that the medical profession is reluctant to move forward or indeed to investigate anything novel that is presenting highly significant results even if it is labelled anecdotal as in the case of Inclined Bed Therapy for helping people with varicose veins.

This thread is proving this to be the case. Many people will read it is unlikely that anyone will investigate it further than skimping through the photographs, shrugging their shoulders and thinking it is a fluke a fix or a fraud rather than asking those placing the photographic evidence before them.

The point that jumps out at you here is: If we really are concerned about People and follow the Hippocratic Oath to the letter as sworn by all doctors to do no harm. Why are we ignoring the fact that tilting a bed the opposite way around to what we have been taught in med school is having such a profound beneficial effect on varicose veins and oedema and continue to perform costly, risky, complicated surgery that is destined to failure because it is like placing a sticky plaster over a hole in a dam, when the real remedy is to address the cause of pressure behind the sticky plaster!

The prediction behind the varicose vein study was that varicose veins would greatly improve over time using IBT as opposed to sleeping flat or having your legs above or level with the heart.

This online study has now confirmed this for all to see. Yet people reading the thread and viewing the photographs and observe a scientific truth would rather walk away as if nothing has happened.

B.C. bless him, at least tries to challenge the results by stating “where is the controlled study?” In answer to this. It is being controlled so it never takes place while the dinosaurs that run the medical cartels are still alive! All sorts of excuses can be put in place. But we really can’t ignore the fact that IBT works for people with varicose veins and oedema and indeed many more serious medical conditions. But in order to move forward the medical profession needs to get their heads out of the sand and test this simple zero cost therapy and look in the precious literature to find a reason why it is so effective.

Remember: 1 case of vaccination success for small pox was all it took to convince the whole profession that vaccine was the way forward. However a lateral thinker was required in order to observe that contact with cow pox was providing protection.

The history of scurvy is another prime example of how the medical profession closes ranks to prevent the obvious benefits of a balanced diet on board ships often at see for months.. Yet the crew of the Kronprinz Wilhelm during the First World War nearly lost it’s entire crew due to failure to take on board the importance of a healthy diet, gorging themselves upon the spoils of war from ships they attacked. My point here is lifetimes pass before our eyes and great opportunities to further our understanding of nature and medicine are wasted.

I ask again how do we get from point A to point B. B being a controlled study to test IBT for efficacy in helping people to avoid surgery for varicose veins and other complications of the circulation system.

How long have I been trying to get a study up and running?-----


Multiple Sclerosis,Wednesday 24-Mar-1999 16:31:27,212.228.66.3
writes,In February 1996 I began taking part in Andrew Fletcher's
Experiment to assess what would be gained by sleeping at an angle.  As
instructed I raised my bed by six inches at the head and expected to
slide to the other end. Fortunately that did not happen. But after a
few weeks I started to notice a change in my multiple sclerosis
symptoms.   I first of all noticed a significant change in my
circulation. The right foot was no longer uncomfortably hot during the
evenings  and the signs of impending varicose veins in my legs
disappeared.
Walking became much easier  especially after I tried using a
dehumidifier in the bedroom to control the moisture levels in the
atmosphere.
Another very pleasing improvement was in the use of my right hand  I
began to write more legibly and to handle cups and cutlery with greater
ease.
In September 1996 I mystified my optician when a routine eye test
showed a marked improvement in the MS damaged right eye. Six months
later more visual improvement was found.
This was an unusual occurrence and could only be explained by the
action of a healing process in the optic nerve. The optician was very
interested in Andrew's experiment and contacted him to find out more!
Other members of my family have also been involved in the experiment.
We raised my teenage daughter's bed by the same angle in an attempt
to alleviate a life long insomnia problem.   To our astonishment she
slept soundly the very first night!
It goes without saying that we shall not be reverting to sleeping
horizontally  but intend to continue using Andrew's healthier
alternative.
  Endnote from Andrew
Pauline's eyesight improved so much that she is now legally entitled
to drive a car without wearing spectacles.

  ,Pauline (Pilot Study Participant) ,

[RD]

MS can have relapsing-remitting course, marked recoveries after spontaneous remissions are not unusual.
The "healing process" in MS is called remyelination which occurs naturally without any treatment.
So Pauline's improvement does not prove that IBT has improved her condition.
Pauline's belief (wish?) that she has an effective treatment for her condition is not proof either.

PS
Pauline's testimonial is over 12 years old. Has her inclined bed stopped her from having any relapses in that period ?
The interval between MS relapses is hugely variable, (some only ever have one relapse), but on average is 10 - 30 months

PPS
photos are not able to accurately measure any changes to varicose veins, however this type of imaging could ...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VGxEUKPNqcA&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DiY45jALWjE&NR=1

[Andrew K Fletcher (OP)]

RD

Pauline was not relapsing remitting MS but long term progressive MS. She lost her sight and was told it would never return. Pauline was one of many people with MS that showed remarkable recovery. There were also some relapsing remitting cases that joined the pilot study and these appeared to benefit from IBT quicker than those who were long term progressive. Many of the people had been refused the ABC drug on grounds that it would have no effect due to the severity and term they had been living with MS.

The argument that it could have happened anyway is not uncommon from doctors and surgeons, or even nurses. This was why we moved on to spinal cord injury. Here we do not have a “it could have happened anyway” get out clause. Well it did happen and to several people with a spinal cord injury minimum 2 years post injury. The video on you tube shows this clearly! Bowl and bladder control was restored in both MS and SCI.

THE MSRC report on 10 people with multiple sclerosis provides some insight into what happens to the nervous system when we tilt a bed this way. However the problem is always the same. The people that refute the improvements on the grounds they could be placebo, will avoid a proper controlled study at all cost! Why do you think this might be the case? Neurological conditions provide the slippery bastards with too many ways to ignore this important research. http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/SCIStudypart1.pdf]Look at the bottom of this file for the MSRC Report.

Varicose veins on the other hand nails them to the post. You say that photographs cannot be used to measure varicose veins. I say they can when they are analysed by the most powerful computer known. The human brain!

We need this varicose veins study now! Not in 10 or 20 years time.

How do we move from Point A to Point B?

Andrew

 

MS can have relapsing-remitting course, marked recoveries after spontaneous remissions are not unusual.
The "healing process" in MS is called remyelination which occurs naturally without any treatment.
So Pauline's improvement does not prove that IBT has improved her condition.
Pauline's belief (wish?) that she has an effective treatment for her condition is not proof either.

PS
Pauline's testimonial is over 12 years old. Has her inclined bed stopped her from having any relapses in that period ?
The interval between MS relapses is hugely variable, (some only ever have one relapse), but on average is 10 - 30 months

PPS
photos are not able to accurately measure any changes to varicose veins, however this type of imaging could ...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VGxEUKPNqcA&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DiY45jALWjE&NR=1

[RD]

Pauline was not relapsing remitting MS but long term progressive MS.
She lost her sight and was told it would never return.

The progress of MS is not predictable, here are a few examples (not exhaustive) ...

 [ Invalid Attachment ]

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=l9wtYZ_iCCIC&pg=PA1644

From the initial pattern of relapses (yellow area) it is not possible to extrapolate into the future: A, B, F & G all begin in a similar fashion.

She lost her sight and was told it would never return.
Pauline was one of many people with MS that showed remarkable recovery.

People with MS regaining sight or the ability to walk without treatment is not unusual, (remyelination).
The recovery is not ususally 100%: there is usually some residual permanent damage. Unfortunately MS revisits areas it has affected before, so sufferers can repeatedly lose and regain a faculty, usually recovering less after each relapse.

[Andrew K Fletcher (OP)]

Thanks for the graph RD

Pauline and several others were in category C: not the relapsing remitting ms but the long slow gradual declining type of multiple sclerosis. This was precisely why John Simkins became interested in inclined bed therapy. People with Relapsing remitting MS responded quicker than those with progressive ms.

Like I said, the "it could have happened anyway brigade" can easily find a way to ignore what happened to these people. My wife and I met Pauline around 8 years later walking around the town in Paignton. Lovely Lady who was very grateful for all that IBT had done for her and her family. She asked why has it taken so long to have your research investigated by doctors? I saw another lady with MS who was using IBT all those years ago walking around town on her own, something she could never have done before. I did not stop to talk to her, remaining an observer in the background, quite content with how much she had obviously benefited from IBT. 

In this brief exchange of text there is an insight into the remarkable possibilities of  IBT. And great opportunities to understand how the body benefits from the direction of gravity.

Have you read the MSRC report yet? Both of the ladies mentioned provided answers to the questions that compiled it.

Do you have a professional interest in neurological conditions RD?

[RD]

Like I said, the "it could have happened anyway brigade" can easily find a way to ignore what happened

Recoveries without treatment are not unusual in people with diagnosed with MS:
they routinely "happen anyway" (without treatment).

The graphs I posted are not exhaustive: other patterns are possible.
I added the graphs to illustrate the variable nature of the progression of MS.

PS
 MS is usually a "diagnosis of exclusion": without brain biopsy or necropsy it is not possible to say someone definitely has it.
 There are MS-like conditions, which can be misdiagnosed as MS. These MS-like conditions can have a different course to MS.

In the absence of pathognomonic clinical features or a definitive laboratory test, multiple sclerosis (MS) remains ultimately a diagnosis of exclusion. Accurate diagnosis is increasingly important with available disease modifying therapy. Unfortunately the rate of misdiagnosis remains around 5%-10%, indicating that 1 in 20 patients thought to have MS has, instead, a condition resembling MS.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/cwwyekcqbr948kn5/

So there is a 5%-10% chance Pauline, and anyone else diagnosed with MS, does not actually have it.

[Andrew K Fletcher (OP)]

Precisely why I moved to spinal cord injury. Very hard for anyone to state the people that improved on IBT did not have a spinal cord injury! Take varicose veins for example. No one can say a person does not have a varicose vein when all the evidence shows they do have a varicose vein! Psoriasis also responds to IBT, although there is the option for people to dismiss improvements stating psoriasis fluctuates. Back to varicose veins to prove this important point, hence trying to convince people on this forum to conduct a simple study to show how surgery is not required for treating varicose veins.

[RD]

Therapies which have been claimed to be a panacea which can, "cure all ills", usually turn out to be completely ineffective.

To claim a therapy can treat unrelated conditions puts it in the same category as Snake Oil* and Holy Water.


[*Snake Oil has been shown to contain anti-inflammatory chemicals, so it could relieve inflammation, but cannot "cure all ills"].

[Andrew K Fletcher (OP)]

Not claiming to cure all ills here. My claim is that gravity is driving the circulation! Making use of this is what turns out to be helping these people.

1.   So in response to your snake oil comment. May I remind you that the real snake oil was beneficial. With some conditions and is still used! The real problem was when people capitalised on it for money selling concoctions claiming them to be the genuine snake oil.
2.   Unrelated conditions is laughable when they are contained in the human body, how can you say they are unrelated?

Allopathic medicine are the real snake oil peddlers! Often peddling dangerous drugs on bogus fraudulent statistics, capitalised upon by multi billion $$$$ industry. Follow the money and you find the snake oil sellers.

Pray tell me where I earn money from people selling snake oils?

If you got off your high horse and investigated the claims for yourself you may find that everything I have written on this subject is factual.

While you are at it come up with another explanation for Aluns varicose veins going flat. Hint: He is a real person from Newcastle.

[Andrew K Fletcher (OP)]

Still waiting for a response RD

BC. A double blind controled study is not required when the evidence is overwhelming. And this is the case with Alun!