[MarkH]

MarkH asked the Naked Scientists:
   
I recently found your podcast and am really enjoying catching up on the programmes I missed.

After your last podcast I was wondering if there are any benefits of global warming? We always harp on about the negative impact that will destroy us and the world around us, but is there anything/one who may benefit?
 Â 
Many thanks
Mark

What do you think?

[justaskin]

If it was warming,and its not,plenty
World would not need so much heating oil.
More plant growth.
Less health problems.How many people die each year from cold compared to those that die from heat stress.
I bet there are a lot of people in the northen hemisphere that would love some global warming right now. []
Oh and its not called global warming anymore because its not.Its called climate change now and its not doing that either. []

Cheers
justaskin

[dentstudent]

Here we go again.....

[paul.fr]

Here we go again.....

This is why i nolonger partake in global warming / climate change discussions.

Oh and its not called global warming anymore because its not.Its called climate change now and its not doing that either. []

Go on then, what evidence do you have that the climate is not changing?

[dentstudent]

Paul - you appear to have contradicted yourself, rather cunningly, in the same post.

[paul.fr]

Mark H

Have a read of this, it's old but gives you some idea of what the thinking was and some of it may not be too far off.

http://www.stanford.edu/~moore/health.html

part quote:
Moreover, if climate change were to manifest itself as warmer winters without much of an increase in temperatures during the hot months, which some climate models predict (Gates et al. 1992), the change in weather could be especially beneficial to human health. The IPCC reports (Folland et al. 1992) that over this century the weather in much of the world has been consistent with such a pattern: winter and night temperatures have risen while summer temperatures have fallen.

A warmer globe would likely result in the polar jet stream's retreating towards higher latitudes; in the Northern Hemisphere the climate belt would move North (Lamb 1972, p. 117-118; Giles 1990). Thus an average annual 3.7deg.C increase in temperature for New York City, for example, would give it the climate of Atlanta. NYC's summertime temperatures, however, would not go up commensurably: the average high temperature in Atlanta during June, July, and August is only 2.2deg.C warmer than New York City's and the latter city has on record a higher summer temperature than does the capital of Georgia. Summer temperatures generally differ less than winter temperatures on roughly the same longitude and differ less than average temperatures.

A sample of 45 metropolitan areas in the United States shows that for each increase of a degree in the average annual temperature, July's average temperatures go up by only 0.5 degrees while January's average temperatures climb by 1.5deg.[2]. Since warming will likely exert the maximum effect during the coldest periods but have much less effect during the hottest months, the climate change should reduce deaths even more than any summer increase might boost them.

Table 1
Cause of Death by Season
(1987-1989)

                   Cause of Death                     Percent of      Percent     
                                                      All Deaths    Winter over   
                                                      (Dec-Feb)    June-August*   
Diseases of the respiratory system                   10%           149%           
Mental disorders                                     1%            123%           
Diseases of the nervous system and sense organs      2%            123%           
Diseases of the circulatory system                   46%           122%           
Endocrine and metabolic diseases and immunity        3%            121%           
disorders                                                                         
Diseases of the genitourinary system                 2%            120%           
Diseases of the digestive system                     3%            113%           
Infectious and parasitic diseases                    2%            112%           
Neoplasms                                            22%           103%           
                                                                                 
Homicides                                            4%            88%           
Suicides                                             1%            94%           
Accidents                                            1%            97%           
                                                                                 
                    All Causes                       100%          116%           


* Adjusted for differences in the number of days in each month.

Source: The National Center for Health Statistics, Vital Statistics of the United States, 1989.

In addition, as Table 1 documents, even deaths traceable to parasitic and infectious diseases are somewhat higher in the winter than in the summer. Respiratory and heart diseases, which kill many more people annually and which the IPCC Working Group II Summary singled out (1995, p. SPM-10) as increasing under a warmer climate, peak during winter months, not summer months. The table shows that respiratory problems, such as pneumonia and influenza, are a particular problem in cold months (this is true in both the northern and southern hemisphere), but even the leading causes of death -- diseases of the circulatory system -- kill more people in the winter. Except for accidents, suicides, and homicides, which are slightly higher in the summer, death rates from virtually all other major causes rise in winter months; overall mortality in the three years 1987 to 1989 was 16 percent greater when it was cold than during the warm season. Other years show similar patterns. Rather than increasing mortality, these data suggest that warmer weather should reduce it; but this possibility is rarely discussed.

[paul.fr]

Paul - you appear to have contradicted yourself, rather cunningly, in the same post.

Well spotted. I just wonder what evidence he has for the off the cuff remarks he makes to all climate topics. He comes accross as a skeptic but backs it up with nothing, I know good skeptics who can give very good reasons for their position, reasons that are convincing and backed up with data...not just a funny line and a smiley face.

[dentstudent]

Paul - you appear to have contradicted yourself, rather cunningly, in the same post.

Well spotted. I just wonder what evidence he has for the off the cuff remarks he makes to all climate topics. He comes accross as a skeptic but backs it up with nothing, I know good skeptics who can give very good reasons for their position, reasons that are convincing and backed up with data...not just a funny line and a smiley face.

Pah! Who needs evidence when you can stick a finger in each ear and sing loudly.....

[justaskin]

Go on then, what evidence do you have that the climate is not changing?

Yes 100% skeptic
I guess I could say you show me your climate change and I will show you mine.
But as you asked first here goes.
Where I live and that is all of Australia not just the street I live in.There has been no great move in the temperature or the amount of rainfall per year and the number of tropical cyclones,if anything, have decreased.All about the same as it has been for 30 years.The bottom half gets cold in winter and the top half don't. and its been doing that forever.The
only thing that affects our climate on a long term basis is the el nino effect.
And I don't see much change anywhere else in the world.London for example hasn't become tropical has it or the caribbean  become a winter wonderland.
Is there anywhere that the climate has changed from say tropical to subtropical or even temperate?.
As for temperature charts for the last ten years they are everywhere on the web and depending what your belief is you will be able to find a chart to back it up.
The article you posted would tend to support one of the points I made about a reduction in deaths due to increase in temperature unless I was not reading it correctly.
So over to you for some examples around the world were the climate has changed.

Cheers
justaskin

[paul.fr]

Here is the thing, why don't you stick to one topic and argue that climate change is not happening and put forward your idea's, research, evidence or just thoughts. That way things are tidier and in one place, simply hijacking every topic about climate change just to say it's not real is not the thing to do and you have the same discussion spread over numerous topics, this is not fair to the person posting a new topic.

If you would like to move this to another, new topic, them I am sure others will gladly partice a sensible discussion. But before you make conclusions that the Australian climate has not changed then please take a look at your own BOM website where they say:

"Australia and the globe are experiencing rapid climate change. Since the middle of the 20th century, Australian temperatures have, on average, risen by about 1°C with an increase in the frequency of heatwaves and a decrease in the numbers of frosts and cold days. Rainfall patterns have also changed - the northwest has seen an increase in rainfall over the last 50 years while much of eastern Australia and the far southwest have experienced a decline."
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/change/

Are you therefore saying that the BOM are mistaken and you can prove otherwise? If you want to argue that there has been a change, but it is not down to anthropogenic climate change, then do that.

You also mention that the only thing affecting the Australian climate,long term, is the ENSO. Have you read this topic?
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=20469.0

Like I said, I am sure there are members who would like to discuss this with you, but I don't think this is the right topic for that discussion. Lets leave this topic for people to answer the question posed by MarkH, and await your own topic for discussion.

[dentstudent]

In response to the original question here is a link to a similar thread already discussed on the forum.

In response to justaskin - that, my friend, is not evidence. But as Paul rightly says, let's take it outside!

[justaskin]

Ok lets have a look at this the question that was asked was are there any benefits of global warming to which I replied yes and gave three example's I also added the rider that climate change was not happening which seems to have upset you.
You then ask me for some proof of no climate change to which I replied now I have been accused of taking the subject off topic.
I notice that neither of you have bothered to reply to the original post just to jump on my head.
You say that I have highjacked threads does that mean that no one is allowed to raise any objections to climate change?.Well thats about par for the course for climate change supporters don't allow any dissent.
The BOM it would appear have trouble  collating their own data.
The CSIRO once used to be a respected and trusted organization but of late seem to have become a lap dog of the climate alarmists.Rather sad really.
Discussion on climate change?.Anywhere any time.But I think it will be about as productive as a discussion on the exsitence  of GOD.It is obvious which side of the fence both of you sit me I am on the other side.

Cheers
justaskin

[paul.fr]

Ok lets have a look at this the question that was asked was are there any benefits of global warming to which I replied yes and gave three example's I also added the rider that climate change was not happening which seems to have upset you.
You then ask me for some proof of no climate change to which I replied now I have been accused of taking the subject off topic.
I notice that neither of you have bothered to reply to the original post just to jump on my head.

I think we both gave an answer to the original question, I then asked that any discussion about climate change and wheather or not it exists be taken up elsewhere.

You say that I have highjacked threads does that mean that no one is allowed to raise any objections to climate change?.Well that's about par for the course for climate change supporters don't allow any dissent.

No. It was made quite clear that if you started your own topic to discuss climate change, that members would participate with you

The BOM it would appear have trouble collating their own data.

Can you provide evidence of this (in a new topic)

The CSIRO once used to be a respected and trusted organization but of late seem to have become a lap dog of the climate alarmists.Rather sad really.

Again, Can you provide evidence of this (in the new topic)

Discussion on climate change?.Anywhere any time.But I think it will be about as productive as a discussion on the exsitence  of GOD.It is obvious which side of the fence both of you sit me I am on the other side.

Cheers
justaskin

Then why bother? Do you only wish to discuss things with like minded people? And as for fences, my position is not firmly seated on any side of it.

Edit:

As for temperature charts for the last ten years they are everywhere on the web and depending what your belief is you will be able to find a chart to back it up.

Can you provide a temperature chart, surface or other, that proves temperatures have not increased in the last 50 or 100 years? To make things easier, a chart for Australia will do.

[Ethos]

One could save that $19.95 they just spent buying that new Snuggie,........Hey!