the universe as a ten dimensional binary system

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Offline Vern

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« Reply #200 on: 14/06/2009 19:52:16 »
Here is a Wiki article about Ball Lightning. We don't know exactly what it is but we generally accept it as real these days.

Quote from: the link
Natural ball lightning appears infrequently and unpredictably, and is therefore rarely (if ever truly) photographed. However, several purported photos and videos exist. Perhaps the most famous story of ball lightning unfolded when 18th-century physicist Georg Wilhelm Richmann installed a lightning rod in his home and was struck in the head - and killed - by a "pale blue ball of fire."[3]

I suspect it is a swirl of ionized air molecules, but I don't know where its powering energy comes from. It would be a soliton of ionized air But there seems to be a lot of electric current traversing the soliton.
« Last Edit: 15/06/2009 00:38:19 by Vern »

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Offline witsend

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« Reply #201 on: 14/06/2009 20:51:25 »
Hi Vern.  Many thanks for that Ball lightning thing.  How interesting is that?  I'm signing off.  Whammed.  I'll post tomorow - depending on trading.  I need to get back on track with the model.  You'll have to be super tolerant because I think Jerrygg38's given up on me.

Take care, and thanks very much for all the help.

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Offline witsend

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« Reply #202 on: 15/06/2009 08:18:04 »
Hi Vern.  Here's my ask.  Did you read Robert Murray's opening thread on gravity?  Am not sure because your first post objected to its length.  Well I, personally give him 10 out of 10 for that summation.  It was just SO lucid.  So.  I sort of understand Jerrygg38's dot wave theory.  It's got some amazing correspodences to actual measured phenomena - 'the final arbiter'.  And he justifies it mathematically - which is pretty jolly good.  More than I could ever do with mine.  The point being that I can definitely wrap the head around those concepts.

Well.  I want to understand your photon theory as well.  I get it that it resolves the 'missing' requirement in QM to resolve those yet unresolved gravitational issues.  Somehow photons themselves create gravitational fields.  You say this is classically accepted precisely because they have mass, and mass attracts mass.  I can't argue this. 

So back to my really big ask from you.  Could you PLEASE explain your photonic theory with concepts.  Take more space if need be.  It would probably be better to put it in your thread on photonic theory.  I want to understand it.  It's actually a HUGE favour - but you must remember that good physics is also clear physics.  Even Pauli - the arch critic of the concept - required clarity to the level of a high school student. 

Then - when I discuss my own model I will know the conceptual framework of your own and will be able to better qualify my references.  I'm struggling with some distinction that you've drawn in this.  I just can't find it.  And it's not from want of trying.

     

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Offline Vern

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« Reply #203 on: 15/06/2009 11:47:47 »
I read Robert Murray's concept closely until I realized it was another 'push gravity' concept. Then I just scanned through the rest for something different from the original. I do want to understand your notions about the universe and also to understand why it is that you suspect that the universe might be like that.
« Last Edit: 15/06/2009 12:04:04 by Vern »

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Offline witsend

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« Reply #204 on: 15/06/2009 11:56:32 »
Hi Vern.  I'm knee deep for the next hour.  I'll get back to you.

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Offline jerrygg38

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« Reply #205 on: 15/06/2009 12:01:46 »
I read Robert Merreys concept closely until I realized it was another 'push gravity' concept. Then I just scanned through the rest for something different from the original. I do want to understand your notions about the universe and also to understand why it is that you suspect that the universe might be like that.

  We cannot permit push gravity. I though your idea of finind the high intensity point to be a push as well. Last night I awoke at 3 AM. (I do most of my intense thinking when I am asleep) Evidently reading your illustrations must have clicked in my brain. I will post
"Gravitational Force Vector" Today.

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Offline Vern

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« Reply #206 on: 15/06/2009 12:06:55 »
Quote from: jerrygg38
We cannot permit push gravity.
The original had a lot of following; the maths were worked out in detail. But it never was plausible in my mind.

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Offline jerrygg38

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« Reply #207 on: 15/06/2009 13:00:41 »
Quote from: jerrygg38
We cannot permit push gravity.
The original had a lot of following; the maths were worked out in detail. But it never was plausible in my mind.

I just posted the Gravitational force vector. It meets your requirements for a photonic field. It meets mine in the conservation of spherical plus angular plus linear momentum.

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Offline witsend

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« Reply #208 on: 15/06/2009 13:04:01 »
OK Vern, I think you're letting me through the door first.  I'm going to try and give an overview - with the understanding that the symmetries are there.  As yet unexplained except in the field model. I believe I've got total justification.  But only with my patterns.  I need those patterns illustrated in fractals - because I also believe its the only way to conceptualise particles and atoms. So.  I'll sort of work backwards.

You get the nebulus concept as broken strings, unravelled from a primary field.  The field closes ranks and just 'continues as ever' because it can no longer interact with the truants in that nebulus flux field.  Just for symmetry - half the zipons from the string lose momentum and gain mass.  Another half lose mass and gain momentum.  Energy in both instances transferred from the latent energy in the string before it broke.  Those truants - that are visible - through a 'remarkable coincidence of good timing' (I've plagiarised the phrase from a joke I know) find their partner or their opposite - in the invisible truant on the other side, so to speak, of that field. They join up and - thereafter - they simply orbit each other.  But the orbit requires that the one moves towards our dimensions gaining mass - losing velocity - and vice versa.  Then they reverse and lose mass and gain velocity and vice versa.  But during that movement towards each other they meet at the same mass/velocity of the field.  The field has one charge.  The two truants have a combined two charge composite.  The field's 1 charge cancels the one charge in the photon.  Therefore 1 direction.  And the field then moves the composite away at 90 degrees.  The direction it moves the  photon (composite of 2 truants) is in a straight line through the into the radial arms of the field because that's the only point where it has a neutral charge. 

All this fits my patterns. 

The same with the electron but the electron has an extra composite.  Therefore 3 truants = 1 electron.  The difference is their composite charge.  There's the same big visible truant - then a second truant co-incident with the velocity and size of the field and a third truant is the anchoring truant that is too small and fast to be measured/seen in our dimensions.  Three charges to the composite electron, one to the field - and two cancel out leaving the electron moving in 2 directions.  This means - there's a continual interaction with the field and there's a second interaction away from the field.  The result is that the electron is caught in the same field as the zippons.  But they move in antiphase, at something under light speed.  Still matches the observed behavious of electrons. Except that if you COULD photograph the electron it will flicker out of view for a longer period of time than the photon.  Both the electron and photon will disappear at some moment from our own measurable dimensions when they interact with the field.

Then the real miracle.  Three electrons join and form a proton.  I'll get back to the 'fusion' process, but I can get it to work very PRECISELY in the field model - as described in the blog.  Here the fusion of the electrons also 'dislodges' some of the zipons in the field (the background structure) which caught the electrons in the first instance.  They dislodge from the primary field and then form a closed system.  The process described in the blog.  BUT THIS IS THE POINT  At that point when the hydrogen atom is formed it is separated from the field and becomes a closed system.  The thing that now anchors it away from the primary field is a field of zipons.  When the electrons couple they also keep some of the zipons in the string that they were attached to.  These zipons now form the hydrogen atoms energy levels.  Just a whole lot of zipons.  I think their number also corresponds to 1836.  But I'm not sure.  What I am sure about is that I can get the mass size of that proton structure to exactly match the known size/mass at 1836.  The electron - expelled when the three electrons meet - is now caught in the orbit of those magnetic fields.

So this is the first time that the magnetic fields, actual zipons, form outside the primary field, in a structured, balanced system.  And they then form the energy leves of the hydrogen atom.  All this fits with my patterns.

I'll wait for questions.  I think that's enough to get on with.   

     

 

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Offline Vern

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« Reply #209 on: 15/06/2009 13:54:37 »
Quote from: witsend
Then the real miracle.  Three electrons join and form a proton.  I'll get back to the 'fusion' process, but I can get it to work very PRECISELY in the field model - as described in the blog.
How do you get from the .51099905 MeV each for the mass of the electrons to the 938.27231 MeV mass of the proton? These values are pretty well checked out in the physics community.

I may be away a lot because this site goes down for me. I have only been able to connect a few times this AM.
« Last Edit: 15/06/2009 14:07:27 by Vern »

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Offline jerrygg38

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« Reply #210 on: 15/06/2009 14:24:15 »
Quote from: witsend
Then the real miracle.  Three electrons join and form a proton.  I'll get back to the 'fusion' process, but I can get it to work very PRECISELY in the field model - as described in the blog.
How do you get from the .51099905 MeV each for the mass of the electrons to the 938.27231 MeV mass of the proton? These values are pretty well checked out in the physics community.

I may be away a lot because this site goes down for me. I have only been able to connect a few times this AM.

If you go back in time to just after the big bang, the mass of the proton was much higher and the mass of the electron was equal to the mass of the proton.

  If you take 2 positrons and one electron and crush them together, you can get a super high energy proton. The electric force between the electron and the positron produces the bipolar energy levels.
  As time goes by the high energy protons radiates energy and the electron also radiates energy.
  Today you cannot do that. If you take a positron and an electron you will only get two high energy photons.

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Offline witsend

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« Reply #211 on: 15/06/2009 14:42:05 »
I'm also struggling, not with connectivity but with work.  I'm knee deep in trading.  I'll try and concentrate better later this pm.  In about 3 hours from now.  Sorry it's so intermittent.  But I have to keep the pot boilig.


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Offline Vern

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« Reply #212 on: 15/06/2009 15:23:30 »
Quote from: jerrygg38
If you take 2 positrons and one electron and crush them together, you can get a super high energy proton. The electric force between the electron and the positron produces the bipolar energy levels.
If we keep the rules of nature that we have discovered, the extra energy must come from somewhere.

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Offline Vern

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« Reply #213 on: 15/06/2009 15:23:53 »
I'm also struggling, not with connectivity but with work.  I'm knee deep in trading.  I'll try and concentrate better later this pm.  In about 3 hours from now.  Sorry it's so intermittent.  But I have to keep the pot boilig.


Good luck in your trading!

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Offline jerrygg38

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« Reply #214 on: 15/06/2009 16:11:09 »
Quote from: jerrygg38
If you take 2 positrons and one electron and crush them together, you can get a super high energy proton. The electric force between the electron and the positron produces the bipolar energy levels.
If we keep the rules of nature that we have discovered, the extra energy must come from somewhere.

Yes the crushing of space-time. Thus at the big bang, all the energy of the universe was concentrated. After the big bang much of it radiated into space. Some of it became protons and electrons. In general I believe that at the beginning the electron had the same mass as the proton. (I just added them for Witsend because it is a possibility but not very probable.)
  The electrons got the outside and most of the electron energy radiated away over the years. Thus long ago the original hydrogen atom had a much more massive electron.

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Offline witsend

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« Reply #215 on: 15/06/2009 16:37:40 »
Jerrygg38 - I saw something you'd written on a dream?  Where is it?  I've been through the whole thread and nothing?  Did I see it in another thread.  If so, please tell me where?

Vern.  I'm back.  Bourses closed so I can take my mind of things.  It was an OK day.  Thanks for the good wishes.  But I'm a 'bottom feeder'.  Don't take much risk.  Just plod, plod like my physics.

I'm going to check your questions and answer.  Where would we be without you?   [:X]

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Offline Vern

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« Reply #216 on: 15/06/2009 16:47:32 »
Quote from: jerrygg38
Yes the crushing of space-time. Thus at the big bang, all the energy of the universe was concentrated. After the big bang much of it radiated into space. Some of it became protons and electrons. In general I believe that at the beginning the electron had the same mass as the proton. (I just added them for Witsend because it is a possibility but not very probable.)
Is there a reason for the electron to be so massive in the beginning? That seems to make things more complicated. I like better to make things more simple.

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Offline witsend

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« Reply #217 on: 15/06/2009 17:23:38 »
How do you get from the .51099905 MeV each for the mass of the electrons to the 938.27231 MeV mass of the proton? These values are pretty well checked out in the physics community.Vern

I've got a full description in the magnetic field model.  I couldn't find any stable composites between 4-8 inclusive.  In conjunction with the field they'd simply subdivide back into 1 - 2 or three or some combination thereof.  But 9 stuck - and only as 3 electrons.  Then I had to work out how they'd combine and could only find anything plausible at the point where the truant moved in antiphase to the field.  That was also the point that bound the truant to the field. The constitution of their separate masses was easy.  The difficult part was accounting for energy levels.  Eventually I got it as the charge of the proton attracting the truants from both sides of the divide in that nebulus flux.  The idea is that the number that attach to the closed system of the proton exactly matches the charge of the proton.  That way, I've got zipons supporting the gluon, pion and quark (or anchor as I define it) and exactly the same amount of zipons circling the structure as energy levels.

The atomic model is based on this concept.  From the flux field the only atoms that can be manufactured - is the hydrogen atom or maybe deuterium and tritium.  They come with their respective 'quantities' of the zippons from the field.  In the process of accretion - yet more truants are extracted, also in this sublime ratio - but nothing to do with the energy levels.  They present an opposite charge to the energy levels in the atom.  They then bind the atoms into their accreted form - slowly developing the whole of that star.  After this 'genesis' the more complex atoms are manufactured.  Not sure how.  But their protons, electrons, neutrons - are all the result of fusion from these zipons in the energy levels.  These fields that make the energy level of the atoms.  This results in more complex atoms.  The non linear development of more complex atoms in the periodic table proposed as being the result of the three basic 'start' types of hydrogen. 


I'm reasonably certain that this is as clear as mud.  What I'm trying to suggest is that the zipons in the energy levels of atoms recombine to form the particles of more complex atoms.  And the non linear relationship of the periodic table is actually explained in the fact that all atoms first progress from these 3 hydrogen type atoms.
« Last Edit: 15/06/2009 17:27:20 by witsend »

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Offline Vern

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« Reply #218 on: 15/06/2009 17:58:59 »
I can visualize the concept, but I don't understand why the zipon combination is better than Quantum Electrodynamics or Quantum Field Theory. I notice that you retain the idea of quarks, pions, and gluons.

Those are parts of Quantum Theory, but you don't retain any of the dynamics of Quantum Theory.

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Offline witsend

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« Reply #219 on: 15/06/2009 18:00:57 »
Hi Vern. If you're still with me there's still hope.  I'll write the next part and you'll see the point.

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Offline witsend

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« Reply #220 on: 15/06/2009 18:31:17 »
Here's the thing.  Those little fields that actually detach from the flux to bind the atoms in their early accretion stage.  That's the thing that QM does not accommodate.  That's all.  Just the fact that the binding of all amalgams is actually done by a field of 'little curly things' as you once described it.  If you add this to an atomic structure - extraneous to the energy levels, then you can account for the way that atoms retain their structure in amalgams. And a whole lot besides.  I'll list it after this post.

And by having zipons comprise energy levels, one can then see how they hold electrons that are ejected at the fusion of every new proton.  They trap them in an orbit because the electron always follows the path of these magnetic fields.  Their middle truant is 'hooked' into an antiphase spin with the magnetic fields, or energy levels - that do what all magnetic fields do.  They orbit.  So the electron orbits with the field.

Allow for this in all amalgams and you still get a correspondence with known measurements.  And the particles and atoms still do what we know they do.  They've just got the added property of magnetic fields to explain a whole lot of things.


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Offline witsend

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« Reply #221 on: 15/06/2009 19:08:24 »
Vern.  So here's some of the effects of having extraneous binding magnetic fields.  The casimir effect is proven.  It's shown in the bonding of metals on a really small scale.  These extraneous atomic fields, if indeed they exist as proposed, are simply really small magnets.  They'd be inclined to find a bonding condition provided that they can find a sympathetic alignment.  On small scale it's feasible.  And it's been proven.

But on the general effect of gravity.  Here's the thing.  Take two solid balls of anything.  Let's take one glass marble and one steel marble - both exactly the same size.  Drop them and they land at the same time.  But the steel weighs more than the marble.  My proposal is that the steel has more of these extraneous fields.  Therefore there's more to be attracted to the the mass of the earth.  And that mass, our earth is made up of exactly the same sort of bound amalgams all linked by these extraneous magnetic fields.  It could therefore be that the 'weight' kicks in because the more fields, the less inclined is the object to give up its rest or bonded state determined by its proximity to that great big amalgam.

Please ask me questions if any of this isn't clear.


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Offline Vern

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« Reply #222 on: 15/06/2009 19:15:22 »
Yes; I understand the concept. However, I don't see that the zipon universe explains more about nature than does established theory. [:)]

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Offline witsend

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« Reply #223 on: 15/06/2009 19:23:21 »
I'll get there.  I'm just too tired again.  I'm going to get some supper.   If I'm up for it will post later.  Else I'll post in the morning.  Thanks Vern.  Glad you're still there.  You've no idea how this exercise exhausts me.  It's not the explaining.  It's that its SO important.

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Offline Vern

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« Reply #224 on: 15/06/2009 20:54:58 »
I'll get there.  I'm just too tired again.  I'm going to get some supper.   If I'm up for it will post later.  Else I'll post in the morning.  Thanks Vern.  Glad you're still there.  You've no idea how this exercise exhausts me.  It's not the explaining.  It's that its SO important.
I'll be watching for the important stuff. [:)]

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Offline witsend

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« Reply #225 on: 15/06/2009 21:43:29 »
I'll be watching for the important stuff.Vern

Good.  Glad to see you're giving these ideas of mine due and proper consideration.  [;D]

Ok.  So let me see if I can  WOW you.  Yet again you've got to follow some patterns.

You know how the earth has a magnetic field.  North South, say.  But the magnetic field actually orbits.  Only one half of the orbit is hidden inside the material of the earth itself.  That's what I refer to as 'broken symmetry'.  In other words, all those 'zipons' are simply moving in one direction - same distribution of charge still moving in strings - still head to toe, still with lateral correspondence between the strings.  BUT.  The other half of that orbit is shielded by the material of the earth itself.  That means that EVERYTHING on the surface of the earth only experiences one half of the 'charge' or 'justification' of the Earth's actual magnetic orbit. 

So having one justification it's charge or justification is say, South.  By comparison, I've proposed that all the atoms in all the amalgams that make up the surface material of the earth, are bound by atomically extraneous magnetic fields.  These little 'curly things' express a full orbit.  Its charge is neutral precisely because these little fields are precisely balanced.  Zero charge.  But it's actual justification or charge is north/south.  Because it orbits. You get the picture?  It's a full orbit so it has two inherently different justifications.  If draw a circle and put an arrow going north south, then the other side will be south north.  Same justification - but alternate charge. 

So, let's say that a stone is dropped from the top of the Empire State building.  Then it will be dropped through the Earth's magnetic fields.  And one half of the quantum of all its 'curly little things' at the surface of the stone, will conflict with the justification of the earth's magnetic fields.  It will always present a north/south justification.  So. 2 charges from the surface of the stone to 1 charge from the earth's magnetic field.  One half of the 'curlies' cancel out with 1 charge from the Earth's fields, leaving 1 charge or justification.  This - like the photon - would result in a repulsion or propulsion of the stone away from the greater field, the Earth's magnetic field, at an angle of 90 degrees.  Which means it would be propelled to the surface of the earth.

Now - if its charge was 1 and was the same as the earth's 1 then it would move in the same direction as the earth's fields and - given the right size - it would enter the south pole, fly through the centre of the earth and then extrude again at the north and repeat the cycle.  If its charge was 1 but in antiphase to the earth - then it would do the same thing but enter the North pole and exit the South.  And if it were antimatter it would move at 90 degrees but away from the surface of the earth.

Which means that this model proposes that magnetic fields are responsible for the effect of gravity. And they only interact with those magnetic fields that are on the surface of amalgams.  This means that in a curious way the 'volume' of the stone is the only thing that interacts with these fields.  Nothing to do with its weigth. In other words the magnetic fields determine the direction of the motion of that falling stone.

However, as mentioned in the previous post, what kicks in as the stone gets ever nearer the surface of the earth is it's experience of the attraction of those curly little things with the earth's curly little things.  Magnets attract.  And once it's grounded, then the attraction is strong.  And as mentioned, this 'pull' imparts the property of weight to the object. 

EDIT - that's the significance re gravity.  Still has all the evident properties of gravitational force - but with an entirely different explanation. 
« Last Edit: 15/06/2009 21:55:25 by witsend »

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Offline Vern

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« Reply #226 on: 15/06/2009 22:03:38 »
You involve the earth's magnetic field with its gravity production; that can be consistent; but, what about planets that have no magnetic field? Mars and Venus don't have magnetic fields around them.
« Last Edit: 15/06/2009 22:09:24 by Vern »

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Offline witsend

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« Reply #227 on: 15/06/2009 22:20:39 »
but, what about planets that have no magnetic field? Vern.

No such thing.  You need to get back to the picture of the star genesis from the nebulus.  That star accreted - courtesy of the zipons that bonded the atoms together.  Now.  Just as the hydrogen atom forms with energy levels made up of zipons - so, for perfect symmetry, the accreted star also has energy levels also from truants from the nebulus.

Here's the thing.  Those energy levels are simply closed system magnetic fields that hold the planets in their energy levels in exactly the same way as the electron is held in its energy level.  In other words, the energy levels of our sun are partially reflected by the orbits of its planets.  All such will have an induced magnetic field.  If, however, it also has its own magnetic field - then it may generate an axial spin as well as an orbit.  And it may then also support its own moons. Either way, these planetary bodies are bound in an orbit - not by an attraction to the sun, but by these undetectable smooth fields of zipons. 

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Offline Vern

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« Reply #228 on: 15/06/2009 22:35:09 »
Are you suggesting that we are mistaken about Mars and Venus not having a magnetic field; or is it that the planetary magnetic fields in the zipon universe are not detected by our measurements?

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Offline witsend

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« Reply #229 on: 15/06/2009 22:43:10 »
No.  No at all.  What I'm proposing is that there is an induced magnetic field - from the energy levels.  In other words, this smooth, neutral field of zipons have one overriding property.  Unless they have 'broken symmetries' - I'll give you more examples later, then they are entirely undetectable.  They simply interact with the superficial 'curly little things' at the surface of all the planets.  Very much like our own magnetic fields interact with matter on the earth.  We can't find those extraneous fields because they're pefectly neutral and very small.  In the same way the neutrality of the field of orbiting zipons from an energy level is absolute.  It is balanced in every which way and from every direction.  It simply forever moves - and moves in the background.

EDIT the reason we know our earth has a magnetic field is because it's got broken symmetry.  We only know of one charge.  If there were two we'd never know it had a magnetic field.
« Last Edit: 15/06/2009 22:48:58 by witsend »

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Offline Vern

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« Reply #230 on: 15/06/2009 22:47:47 »
Okay; I can get that vision. [:)]

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« Reply #231 on: 15/06/2009 23:10:27 »
Vern.  I need you to fit this in to known science.  But I don't think there's anything proposed, thus far, that conflicts with observed realities.  I need the zipon when I get to current flow, superluminal communication (I can see you wince)  [???] and the the electromagnetic interaction.  But I just want to point out the thing about fire.  I'm assuming you haven't read it in my blog.

Here's the idea.  If these little zipons bind matter, and if their symmetries get broken by friction or some such then they'll also unravel.  Exactly as that great string in the cosmos unravels to form a nebulus.  But the difference is that these truants would lose velocity - gain mass - become visible.  They're neutral and follow each other's path.  The flame would grow.  And.  As the fields unravel they cluster into that flame - like a mini nebulus. But when that flame has expended its energy as a manifest truant - it will lose mass, regain velocity and slip back into the greater field.  In this instance it would be the Earth's magnetic fields.  And since they probably came from the earth's field at the time of manufacture, then they simply go home, so to speak.

This means that the bound condition of the amalgam will be compromised by the loss of these binding fields.  And you'd be left with nothing but the atom.  Still consistent with observed and measured reality. 


I think that's it.  I'm going to try and get some sleep.  My dogs need to be taken out first.  We're blasted by arctic gales.  We live in Cape Town. It's beautiful most of the time.  But come winter it's beauty is hidden by pretty consistent mist, fog rain.  But I love it - except for those times I have to take the dogs out.  And its my chore - because I'm the only one who cares for them.  If I died, I think they would die from neglect.
« Last Edit: 16/06/2009 06:31:27 by witsend »

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Offline Vern

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« Reply #232 on: 15/06/2009 23:38:37 »
Quote from: witsend
Vern.  I need you to fit this in to known science.
There is very little chance of fitting your concepts into known science. Established theories at present are Quantum Mechanical. Quantum Electrodynamics enjoyed great success, now I think Quantum Field Theory is becoming more popular. From all I can understand of your concepts, they are far removed from those. [:)] I discount string theory; I don't see it going anywhere.

I like alternative ideas. They are fun to think about. But when we get down to making aeroplanes and ships and bridges and even weapons of war, we need to use established rules that we know work.
« Last Edit: 15/06/2009 23:40:48 by Vern »

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« Reply #233 on: 15/06/2009 23:45:16 »
Couldn't resist reading and answering your last post.  You're looking for simple solutions.  I know this.  I read all your posts.  What could be simpler than mine?  And I think it may have some modest applications including cheap energy!!! 

Any way, Good night Vern.  And, yet again, many thanks for all your help.  I see the amazing work you do through this forum.  Does anyone ever acknowledge it?

 [:)]

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« Reply #234 on: 16/06/2009 01:17:18 »
Couldn't resist reading and answering your last post.  You're looking for simple solutions.  I know this.  I read all your posts.  What could be simpler than mine?  And I think it may have some modest applications including cheap energy!!! 

Any way, Good night Vern.  And, yet again, many thanks for all your help.  I see the amazing work you do through this forum.  Does anyone ever acknowledge it?

 [:)]

I appreciate the effort Vern makes.

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« Reply #235 on: 16/06/2009 01:25:43 »
Quote from: witsend
Vern.  I need you to fit this in to known science.
There is very little chance of fitting your concepts into known science. Established theories at present are Quantum Mechanical. Quantum Electrodynamics enjoyed great success, now I think Quantum Field Theory is becoming more popular. From all I can understand of your concepts, they are far removed from those. [:)] I discount string theory; I don't see it going anywhere.

I like alternative ideas. They are fun to think about. But when we get down to making aeroplanes and ships and bridges and even weapons of war, we need to use established rules that we know work.

You have over one million physicists in the world today. You have the brightest minds, the best memories, the greatest team efforts. Who could compete with that?

  The only reason I attempt to compete with the greatest minds is due to an encounter in 1981. Was it true? Was it pure insanity? The only thing I could do was study the limited data I got and true to determine if it is wrong.
  After 28 years I cannot say that the data is wrong. The big problem is that there are so many variations and possibilities.

  So the question is why does W believe that she can contribute something to this very complex field filled with the most brilliant of people? My reason is an encounter with an intelligence field. What could hers be??????????????????

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« Reply #236 on: 16/06/2009 07:10:59 »
You have over one million physicists in the world today. You have the brightest minds, the best memories, the greatest team efforts. Who could compete with that?Jerrygg38


I can.  And I don't have brains.  I just have an edge.  So does everyone who tries to work out problems for themselves.  If you only hear one side of an argument there's no discussion.  The trained scientist has only heard one side of an argument supported, he believes by empirical proof. Well.  I of all people know how anxious the scientific community are to test their hypotheses Laws, and general paradigms.  I have seen how happy they are to look at empirical proof in experimental data.   I have a really, really simple electric circuit that repeatedly delivers energy efficiencies that boggle the mind and blow the unity barrier into the dark ages.  If empirical proof is everything - THEN GO TEST IT.

Read through the thread again on that circuit.  Where did all that critical arrogance come from?  I only asked people to check some numbers out.  And the sad part is - THAT reaction is typical.  Par for the course.  It seems that one can question anything in this world today.  We've finally enjoyed a sort of inalienable, international, constitutional right to speak our minds.  We can question the existence of God.  We can question the wisdom of our leaders.  And we can even question justice.  These are really subtle things that call for really subtle concepts and absurdly abstract qualifications.  And very often they reach into the actual soul structure of a person, they matter so much.  So it also tests ones tolerance.  But DO NOT DARE QUESTION A SCIENTIST.  Then objectivity flies out the window and you get a display of testosterone more typically confined to bulls in a rutting season. 

Fortunately there are also those out there who still like to look at alternative ideas.  I just wish they'd also look at alternative experiments. 

« Last Edit: 16/06/2009 07:44:28 by witsend »

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« Reply #237 on: 16/06/2009 07:53:04 »
So the question is why does W believe that she can contribute something to this very complex field filled with the most brilliant of people? My reason is an encounter with an intelligence field. What could hers be??????????????????Jerrygg38

Nothing quite so exotic.  The only exotic thing I do believe in is superluminal communication - because I have personal experience of it.  I sort of knew the moment when my husband was killed.  That was many, many years ago.  I want to hear more about this experience of yours.  But I think that BenV and - more to the point Sophiecentaur will object to any such discussion in a science forum.  Can you please tell us about it - and then point out where the thread is?  I think it's allowed in the Chat section, or some such. 

I also want to know about that dream of 5 dimensions.  It sounds amazing.  Where did you post that thread? EDIT Sorry. I should have said which thread did you post that in? EDIT  In fact, for any language purists, I should have said 'in which thread did you post it'?   

EDIT

Sorry Jerrygg38 - back to that question.  Are you actually implying that I have no RIGHT to question scientific paradigms as I am neither trained nor brilliant?  Surly not.  If I have a mission in life it is to explore my own logical faculties, - clusmy as they are.  And let these faculties take me where they will.  I sincerely believe that I must find my own answers.  And better still my own questions.  And if ever stop exploiting this God given property of curiosity and the challenging logic that it confronts, then what am I?  I may not be equal to the task.  But I'm up for the challenge.  I think my human condition makes me better than a plant, with due respect to the entire botanical universe.  Plants seem to keep thinking to a minimum?  Ants do a sort of collective number?  People - on the other hand - can argue and question and test. Quite apart from which - it's such an exciting journey.

And, since I'm so free with my opinion I can only hope that it amuses readers or that they find it interesting.  Either way.  I'm happy. I'm only sorry when it offends them.
« Last Edit: 16/06/2009 11:29:13 by witsend »

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« Reply #238 on: 16/06/2009 12:13:01 »
Couldn't resist reading and answering your last post.  You're looking for simple solutions.  I know this.  I read all your posts.  What could be simpler than mine?  And I think it may have some modest applications including cheap energy!!! 

Any way, Good night Vern.  And, yet again, many thanks for all your help.  I see the amazing work you do through this forum.  Does anyone ever acknowledge it?

 [:)]
I am really just playing here; and it is fun; no need for acknowledgement. I think I already mentioned it, but using a tuned circuit for air conditioner motors has saved many billions already. We went a lot of years without that tuned capacitor in the circuit. Now days, the wrong size capacitor will cause the motor to overheat.

So, it is possible you may have some efficiency gain by coupling inductive kick back into the battery powering a circuit. In my experience it will always be less energy than it took to charge the inductor.
« Last Edit: 16/06/2009 12:24:44 by Vern »

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« Reply #239 on: 16/06/2009 12:42:04 »
So, it is possible you may have some efficiency gain by coupling inductive kick back into the battery powering a circuit. In my experience it will always be less energy than it took to charge the inductor. Vern

I sort of tried to highlight those phrases and words that might not be entirely commendable scientifically.  Surely it is in the interests of good science to test ALL foundational concepts.  And, equally, surely nothing is better than a really good question?  Here's mine.  Why NOT build the circuit?  And why NOT test it?

Anyway.  I'm not really that phased.  I'm just so, so sorry that your pre-determined opinion on the matter may forever prevent you from finding the answer.  Just really glad that you're around to argue my curly little things.

There's a really bright Professor - I don't think I should give out his name.  He mentions this 'EFFECT' in a publication on electronics.  It's a sort of bible on the subject.  In any event.  He himself, knew of the effect - but did not know of the benefit.  He simply ignored the effect because it was easily stabilised by applying pressure - any sort - to the wire.

But - I only mention this as it's an enduring regret.  I intend coming back to this subject when I get onto current flow.  Whenever that is. 

 

« Last Edit: 16/06/2009 13:12:54 by witsend »

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« Reply #240 on: 16/06/2009 13:10:49 »
Quote from: witsend
I sort of tried to highlight those phrases and words that might not be entirely commendable scientifically.  Surely it is in the interests of good science to test ALL foundational concepts.  And, equally, surely nothing is better than a really good question?  Here's mine.  Why NOT build the circuit?  And why NOT test it?
All the foundational concepts involved in this circuit have been tested over and over again many thousands of times. No one has ever noticed anything unusual about them. [:)] We can't get into the particulars of it because you claim ignorance of the concepts. You can not be convinced that it does not work and we can not be convinced that there is any chance that it can work.


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« Reply #241 on: 16/06/2009 13:15:57 »

EIDIT We can't get into the particulars of it because you claim ignorance of the concepts. Vern

(Sorry.  I used the wrong quote)

Fair comment.  I have never been able to understand conventional current flow.  Vern. You know what amuses me?  Whenever I see that smiley little 'happy face' I know your about to stick a knife into the argument.  I don't want to argue.  I want ENTIRE CONSENSUS for my exotic logic.   [;D] [;D]
« Last Edit: 16/06/2009 13:18:28 by witsend »

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« Reply #242 on: 16/06/2009 13:40:15 »
Quote from: witsend
I don't want to argue.  I want ENTIRE CONSENSUS for my exotic logic.
The logic is okay; if the little gadget were real I would expect that you would have them all around your house as battery chargers. You would use only rechargeable batteries and soon power the whole household with them. Growing out of that you might install power inverters and supply power to the power grid.

But I didn't notice any of that going on. [:)] The little smiley just means that I am not offended and do not intend to offend.

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« Reply #243 on: 16/06/2009 14:01:37 »
if the little gadget were real I would expect that you would have them all around your house as battery chargers. You would use only rechargeable batteries and soon power the whole household with them. Growing out of that you might install power inverters and supply power to the power grid. Vern

THAT's the truth.  There are many engineers who have seen this and - to the best of my knowledge - none of them is exploiting it.  And I certainly can't.  I don't know how to.  One fellow did - some 10 years ago.  He also held a demo for a whole lot of people, to show it.  Bernard Bulak.  Sadly he isn't with us any more.  But Brian Buckley built my circuit And the circuit for ABB.  He's demonstrated it ad nauseum - and again.  To the best of my knowledge he is also not using it.  There's an academic on another forum who claims he is using it.  But I can't comment as I haven't seen it in operation. 

So. That's really the Achilles Heel to my argument.  I'm hoping I can convince you on the field.  If there's merit in the model then I sort of take it that you're reasonable enough to test it.  Maybe?  And if there's no merit in the model - you're quite right.  Why bother?  No-one else has.

I actually think even I'd be tempted if they could manufacture a really whopping great MOSFET.  That way I'd apply it to my geyser.  It guzzles electricity and I love a hot bath.

By the way.  Donovan is really into alternate energy systems and has just wired up a house somewhere here in Cape Town that apparently does use my system for some period of recharge.  But I'm not sure of the device or where it's applied.  I REALLY have no interest in the circuit.  I wish I did.  I'd probably then do a better job of promoting it.  But I'm only interested in the effect as it relates to my model.

In any event.  This discussion belongs to the previous thread.  It's pointless to argue the pros and cons.  I can't convince you.  And, it appears nor can I convince anyone else.  I'm hopeless optimistic and keep thinking that ONE DAY I'll wake up to find that lots of people are using the circuit.  But that's just a ridiculous dream at this stage.  And I really don't want a return from it.  I personally think that it's a force of nature that's finally being uncovered.  But that's just me. 

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« Reply #244 on: 16/06/2009 14:11:04 »


but using a tuned circuit for air conditioner motors has saved many billions already. We went a lot of years without that tuned capacitor in the circuit. Now days, the wrong size capacitor will cause the motor to overheat.

So, it is possible you may have some efficiency gain by coupling inductive kick back into the battery powering a circuit. In my experience it will always be less energy than it took to charge the inductor.

 The capacitor helps with reducing the starting current. It produces more torque on starting. It reducing the line current. Therefore the power lost on the lines is less.
  I have not tought about it at all. Are you implying that the capacitor lowers the kilowatt hours? The watthour meter only measures the in phase component. Therefore the capacitor will not help reduce the in phase component. Therefore the capacitor helps with starting only. What is your opinion?

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« Reply #245 on: 16/06/2009 14:18:51 »
Quote from: witsend
I sort of tried to highlight those phrases and words that might not be entirely commendable scientifically.  Surely it is in the interests of good science to test ALL foundational concepts.  And, equally, surely nothing is better than a really good question?  Here's mine.  Why NOT build the circuit?  And why NOT test it?
All the foundational concepts involved in this circuit have been tested over and over again many thousands of times. No one has ever noticed anything unusual about them. [:)] We can't get into the particulars of it because you claim ignorance of the concepts. You can not be convinced that it does not work and we can not be convinced that there is any chance that it can work.



 I am afraid it is a talking coconut argument. She says the coconut talks to her. In fact she says some of her friends and associates have heard the coconut talk to them as well.

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« Reply #246 on: 16/06/2009 14:20:21 »
Quote from: jerrygg38
I have not tought about it at all. Are you implying that the capacitor lowers the kilowatt hours? The watthour meter only measures the in phase component. Therefore the capacitor will not help reduce the in phase component. Therefore the capacitor helps with starting only. What is your opinion?
It actually reduces the KWH. The capacitor is selected so that it is in resonance with the motor coil when the motor is producing its rated output. I had never looked into this until we installed a new air conditioner for the house a few years ago. The capacitor was bad so the installer used another capacitor. The motor then ran hot. I kept a water hose trickling on it until the correct capacitor was finally installed. Then all was well.

The motor started Okay with the wrong capacitor; it just ran hot. When not cooled the thermal cut out shut it down within five minutes.

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« Reply #247 on: 16/06/2009 14:24:04 »
if the little gadget were real I would expect that you would have them all around your house as battery chargers. You would use only rechargeable batteries and soon power the whole household with them. Growing out of that you might install power inverters and supply power to the power grid. Vern

THAT's the truth.  There are many engineers who have seen this and - to the best of my knowledge - none of them is exploiting it.  And I certainly can't.  I don't know how to.  One fellow did - some 10 years ago.  He also held a demo for a whole lot of people, to show it.  Bernard Bulak.  Sadly he isn't with us any more.  But Brian Buckley built my circuit And the circuit for ABB.  He's demonstrated it ad nauseum - and again.  To the best of my knowledge he is also not using it.  There's an academic on another forum who claims he is using it.  But I can't comment as I haven't seen it in operation.   

That settles it. We now know the whole story. It is a Bernie Madoff con game. The people who you are involved with got the ideas from con men. It is all about money. It is all about making sukers out of investors.
It has nothing to do with science or Engineering. It is a pure con game.

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« Reply #248 on: 16/06/2009 14:33:47 »
That settles it. We now know the whole story. It is a Bernie Madoff con game. The people who you are involved with got the ideas from con men. It is all about money. It is all about making sukers out of investors.It has nothing to do with science or Engineering. It is a pure con game.Jerrygg38

I'd agree with you if any of us actually tried to make money out of this.  It at least would then have a real justified application. 

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« Reply #249 on: 16/06/2009 14:34:44 »
Quote from: jerrygg38
I have not tought about it at all. Are you implying that the capacitor lowers the kilowatt hours? The watthour meter only measures the in phase component. Therefore the capacitor will not help reduce the in phase component. Therefore the capacitor helps with starting only. What is your opinion?
It actually reduces the KWH. The capacitor is selected so that it is in resonance with the motor coil when the motor is producing its rated output. I had never looked into this until we installed a new air conditioner for the house a few years ago. The capacitor was bad so the installer used another capacitor. The motor then ran hot. I kept a water hose trickling on it until the correct capacitor was finally installed. Then all was well.

The motor started Okay with the wrong capacitor; it just ran hot. When not cooled the thermal cut out shut it down within five minutes.

What brand air conditioner.  I have the carrier. I had to replace the motor electronics recently. It is very expensive.
  Carrier has a variable speed motor which constantly changes speed. If you have a carrier AC then it is a special motor. In general most of the window AC have simple motors.

  Therefore the results you had may be due to the expensive special motors and not to the general AC motors.