The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind

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The Only One Mind

And here is where things get even stranger. Referring back to reference (1), the work of Ludvic Bass shows how that the plural ''I'' or singular consciousness seems to be an illusion itself. By his mathematical proof
he shows empiracle evidence that there can ONLY BE ONE CONSCIOUSNESS! It truely was a remarkable work, and was heavily influenced by Schrodingers analysis of the world (8). Now - if indeed there is only one consciousness
ever in existence then that really helps the physical theories of quantum mechanics to make assertions concerning the psychological problem of time. If there is only one consciousness, then there is also only one experience of
time! I've just shown consistently that if there is only one time, then there seems to be indications that there is only one time dimension and not two as proposed by the Two-Time Physics, which involves a metric with an extra
time dimension, but due to symmetry, it also requires an extra spatial dimension, so the theory is actually quite costly in the sense it is even more complicated.

Again however, if there is only one time ever, why then can we experience time singularily? Is time like a field in which we are all submerged within its structure, sharing this strange imaginary manifold, or can consciousness,
the only one consciousness imply that even the experience of time is also singular (don't get mixed up with the concept of a singularity here - not intended)?

This is more difficult to comprehend. It would mean that time truely is a product of consciousness itself - or if you prefer, consciousness is a product of time. I prefer the latter condition here. Also, if one where to take relativity
seriously, then our experience of space is also only one space, made itself of the geometric vectors making a three-dimensional continuum - but its hard to even entertain a single space theory simply because how does one interpret
that? It truely would all come down to verging on a solipsistic interpretation of the world, where consciousness, time and space are not shared as experiences by the 6-odd billion minds present on Earth, but rather the experiences
becomes just one experience itself; that same logical reasoning in which Ludvic Bass shows in his paper.

To expand this further, Bass shows how if there is a singular master consciousness, then it may have direct applications for psychic conditional theories, which usually remain outside the conventional wisdom of science. This
is really because of the skepticism behind such a theory making it a psuedo-theory at best. But, many scientists in the past have not only entertained the idea that psychic or telekinetic powers where possible, but even
Einstein himself once admitted that if such abilities where true, then it would be a matter of quantum physics - and with the models we have today of quantum physics we might be able to entertain such controversial
theories without any dogmatic paranoia.

In a one-time, one-consciousness theory, we could say that all time has already passed for all observers which actually fits neatly with relativistic equations. In relativity, the diffeomorphisms of the quantized schrodinger
context has itself a decription of a timeless universe. As beautiful as it sounds, the idea of pure timelessness may be an indication of why there is one consciousness only ever present and how time itself had already been
experienced. Hence, the idea is that if all-time has been experienced, then time may as well not exist! Is this what the diffeomorphisms are hinting at?

I must admit, even i was kind of surprised by the idea, and how well it answers for Bass' work. Essentially, a type of unification by logical deduction seems to provide not only a union to a one-time experience in Bass' model, to
the theory of a singular conciousness, to the fitting hyothesis that such a result would lead mathematically to a timeless universe, because it would mean that none of us can be unique when consciousness is involved,
nor can our experience of time, and [exactly] when we have experienced such a passing of time; whether it is you, or President Lincon, to some future mind of a man or a woman, all these experiences of time can only be reduced to one
irreducible block of time. Quite rightly speaking from terminology the timelessness interpretation is called ''Block Time (9).''

1 - Hermathena, a Dublin University Review, 'The Mind of Wigners Friend' 1971 by Ludvic Bass

2 - Parallel Universes; The Search for Other Worlds, 1985, F. A Wolf PhD.

3 - This is the theory of a universe devoid of matter, but only pure force of gravity.

4 - Space does not exist, so time can. Fotini Markopoulou, Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics (Dated: December 1, 2008)

... also read for interest; Fotini Markopoulou, \The internal description of a causal set: What the universe looks like from the inside", Commun.Math.Phys.
211 (2000) 559-583, arXiv:gr-qc/9811053

5 - From an essay made, i concluded a timelessness creates more problems than what it solves. A paradox concerning this involved the following:


(This was part of a larger work)
« Last Edit: 05/10/2009 14:39:30 by Mr. Scientist »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
« Reply #1 on: 05/10/2009 19:19:56 »
"he shows empiracle evidence that there can ONLY BE ONE CONSCIOUSNESS"
Then it must be me.
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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
« Reply #2 on: 05/10/2009 22:33:03 »
What do you mean?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

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« Reply #3 on: 06/10/2009 07:06:01 »
I know that I have a consciousness; you say there's only one; it must be mine.
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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
« Reply #4 on: 06/10/2009 09:27:32 »
I know that I have a consciousness; you say there's only one; it must be mine.

I don't say there is one consciousness. I accept that quantum mechanics predicts this counterintuitive FACT, and reference to this is given by Ludvic Bass who was a student of the legndary schrodinger:

1 - Hermathena, a Dublin University Review, 'The Mind of Wigners Friend' 1971 by Ludvic Bass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

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« Reply #5 on: 06/10/2009 19:41:49 »
Without making some other assumption(s) there's no way that QM can predict anything at all about consciousness.

If this guy says there's only one consciousness and yet we know he's wrong (because you and I are both aware, but you and I are different) then he has got one or more of his assumptions wrong.

It reminds me of the deluded maths prof who claimed to have proved that the existence of God had a probability of (I forget the exact number) about 0.6 or something. He hadn't noticed that the existence of God was a tacit part of one of his (unstated) assumptions.
I wonder if his students have stopped taking the piss out of him yet. After all, if you start with the existence of God as a (hidden) fact, then prove the probability of His existence is 0.6 then not only have you screwed up in making your assumptions, but you have screwed up the arithmetic too.
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« Reply #6 on: 06/10/2009 19:56:49 »
Without making some other assumption(s) there's no way that QM can predict anything at all about consciousness.

If this guy says there's only one consciousness and yet we know he's wrong (because you and I are both aware, but you and I are different) then he has got one or more of his assumptions wrong.

It reminds me of the deluded maths prof who claimed to have proved that the existence of God had a probability of (I forget the exact number) about 0.6 or something. He hadn't noticed that the existence of God was a tacit part of one of his (unstated) assumptions.
I wonder if his students have stopped taking the piss out of him yet. After all, if you start with the existence of God as a (hidden) fact, then prove the probability of His existence is 0.6 then not only have you screwed up in making your assumptions, but you have screwed up the arithmetic too.


That's simply not true; and a fabricated statement in itself, since;

A) You apparently do not know enough about quantum mechanics to state it cannot say ''anything'' about it - and

B) You have not even read Bass' paper. Might i suggest before you flout it with the highest impunity, read it first.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

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The Quantum Physicist who proved There was Only One Mind
« Reply #7 on: 06/10/2009 20:23:29 »
This might elevate more of an appealing read:

''Imagine that Wigner is approaching a quantum traffic light with two possibilities, red and green; at the same time his friend is approaching the same light  from the perpendicular road.  Being busy Americans, they both choose green.  Unfortunately, their choices are contradictory; if both choices materialize at the same time, there would be pandemonium.  Obviously, only one of their choices counts, but whose?

            After many decades, three physicists at different places and times (Ludwig Bass in Australia, myself at Oregon, and Casey Blood at Rutgers, New Jersey), independently discovered the solution of the paradox: consciousness is one, nonlocal and cosmic, behind the two people’s local individuality.  They both choose but from this nonordinary state of one consciousness (which I call the quantum self) where there is no local individuality or selfishness so contradiction can be avoided.  This allows the common sense result that in many such crossings, Wigner and his friend each would get green fifty percent of the time; yet for any individual crossing, a creative opportunity for getting green is left open for each.'' [/b]

http://www.amitgoswami.org/consciousness-quantum-physics/

But then again, it would be better if you just read Ludvic Bass' account in his paper Hermethena.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

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Offline that mad man

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« Reply #8 on: 07/10/2009 21:07:05 »
A lot of QM is based on imaginary scenarios like the one above. QM can predict a lot of things but it does not mean that they will become true or a fact only that its a possibility.

Quote: "To expand this further, Bass shows how if there is a singular master consciousness, then it may have direct applications for psychic conditional theories, which usually remain outside the conventional wisdom of science"

It may be logical reasoning but a lot of his stuff is full if, may and could and not will.

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« Reply #9 on: 07/10/2009 23:39:36 »
So far, it's the most logical conclusion based from the soil of QM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

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« Reply #10 on: 08/10/2009 20:02:54 »
In reallity people don't choose the colour of traffic lights so it's a non-problem.
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« Reply #11 on: 10/10/2009 15:11:54 »
Terrible analogy. I don't even properly understand it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

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« Reply #12 on: 10/10/2009 18:08:17 »
Terrible analogy. I don't even properly understand it.
Then you shouldn't have cited it.
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« Reply #13 on: 10/10/2009 18:20:10 »
Cited what?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

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« Reply #14 on: 10/10/2009 18:20:52 »
Perhaps you could also make these replies more than a few words long?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

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« Reply #15 on: 10/10/2009 21:26:38 »
Cited what?
The terrible analogy.

Anyway, since there are many people in the world and they all have separate consciouses there clearly can't be just one.
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« Reply #16 on: 10/10/2009 21:26:59 »
Perhaps you could also make these replies more than a few words long?
What for?
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« Reply #17 on: 11/10/2009 01:17:10 »
Cited what?
The terrible analogy.

Anyway, since there are many people in the world and they all have separate consciouses there clearly can't be just one.

These are points which Bass has certainly raised in his quantum mechanical paper. Did you by any chance get to read it? Because until then, you cannot really speculate on the details.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

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« Reply #18 on: 11/10/2009 14:36:59 »
Since I know that there are more than 1 consiousnes in the world I know that any suggestion that there is only one must be wrong.
I don't need to waste my time on learning the details or even reading it. It's plainly false.
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« Reply #19 on: 11/10/2009 19:20:08 »
i agree with bored chemist wholeheartedly. you don't need to read the bible to know that the idea of Yahweh's existence is not scientifically plausible.

besides that, you have to assume that consciousness is something material, definable. consciousness is larger than the sum of it's parts, i think. scientific research into consciousness is still very much in it's infancy.

also, you're using QM to explain classical phenomenon. why you're attempting this with a biological, complex system when the unification between QM and the macroscopic world has not even been done on the level of simple atomic structures like carbon and graphite is confusing, scientifically, but of course is fascinating [:)]
« Last Edit: 11/10/2009 23:23:19 by glovesforfoxes »
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« Reply #20 on: 12/10/2009 02:35:35 »
Since I know that there are more than 1 consiousnes in the world I know that any suggestion that there is only one must be wrong.
I don't need to waste my time on learning the details or even reading it. It's plainly false.

Your logic restricts this entire hypothesis. Tell me, since i know of only one universe does this mean that the idea of other universes couldn't be plausible? - i mean, this is the logic you are appealing to. Just because you have sense of one thing and not of the other doesn't really disclude the contending theory in any way.

We are already aware of the strange predictions of quantum mechanics, and many scientists realize the difficulties in explaining quantum mechanics when the observer is involved, as so many cases are. This sense is much the same, since we only ever experience the one consciousness, but mathematically, Ludvic Bass (independantly from two other physicists along the same time) predicted the answer to one of the most ambiguous paradox of quantum mechanics, The Mind of Wigners Friend. The answer was only one consciousness existing, and whateverb we experience is but one side of a single (multi-faced) object.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

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« Reply #21 on: 12/10/2009 02:38:01 »
i agree with bored chemist wholeheartedly. you don't need to read the bible to know that the idea of Yahweh's existence is not scientifically plausible.

besides that, you have to assume that consciousness is something material, definable. consciousness is larger than the sum of it's parts, i think. scientific research into consciousness is still very much in it's infancy.

also, you're using QM to explain classical phenomenon. why you're attempting this with a biological, complex system when the unification between QM and the macroscopic world has not even been done on the level of simple atomic structures like carbon and graphite is confusing, scientifically, but of course is fascinating [:)]

It does not predict that consciousness is material at all. I do not understand why you have said this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

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« Reply #22 on: 12/10/2009 07:00:11 »
"Your logic restricts this entire hypothesis. "
It's not just My logic; any logic shows this is rubbish.
"Tell me, since i know of only one universe does this mean that the idea of other universes couldn't be plausible? - i mean, this is the logic you are appealing to."
No it's the exact oposite. I know there's More than one.
"We are already aware of the strange predictions of quantum mechanics,"
And a none of them are proven false by the evidence like your idea.
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« Reply #23 on: 13/10/2009 00:29:54 »
"Your logic restricts this entire hypothesis. "
It's not just My logic; any logic shows this is rubbish.
"Tell me, since i know of only one universe does this mean that the idea of other universes couldn't be plausible? - i mean, this is the logic you are appealing to."
No it's the exact oposite. I know there's More than one.
"We are already aware of the strange predictions of quantum mechanics,"
And a none of them are proven false by the evidence like your idea.

Oh you know there is more then one?

Then what the hell are we all doing? We shold hit you with a PhD and you should rewrite physic for us!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

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« Reply #24 on: 13/10/2009 06:58:19 »
Well I find it hard to reply to this topic, my wording for the idea would be much differently. And... my reply is most likely a ramble :)

I'd say - break down the consious into seperate levels.

We have a consious which allows us to do daily chores; call this the 'ego' or whatnot. And then I'd say there is a 'pack' conscious. This pack conscious is what we use to work together as a system.

Think about animals in a pack - they work together, right? Why can't humans do it? Of course, we haven't been able to work together for a very long time :)

But I suppose look at your friends and family. It can work as a pack, sometimes your ideas just flow into each other and you can work on helping each other easily.

Though, if we are going to go even deeper and look at it in terms of energy, then life itself is an illusion then we are at the whims of the energy itself. Since everything IS energy, it would be safe to assume that everything is apart together - not bounded by a shape or form, its only that its being interpreted. That would even be to do with the conscious, if we are just made of this energy, then we would really come from the same place. What's to say what one person sees is how another one percieves.

Time is just a concept created by us just so we can work in a more organised fashion. It is in a way to put a boundary on a boundless thing. Though, we are't made for anything boundless (Thank g-d!!!)

That brings up another interesting question in my mind though - infinity. Is there really a way to comprehend infinity? We just know that it goes on.. its something that doesn't stop. We only make it seem to stop (thereby making it non-infinite) because we need to put a boundary on it in order to comprehend it and not to crash and die.
« Last Edit: 13/10/2009 07:02:04 by Dimi »
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« Reply #25 on: 13/10/2009 07:05:07 »
Mr "Scientist"
you say "Oh you know there is more then one?"
Yes, I know it because of the evidence.
There is, for example, one that realises there's more than one, and a second, who doesn't.

At the moment, the nearest thing to evidence you have is some fairy story about quantum trafic lights.
On that basis, you seem to be trying to rewrite physics.


Do you realise that you cannot win this argument?
If you were right then you would be arguing against yourself so you couldn't hope to win.
If not then you are wrong so you won't win.

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« Reply #26 on: 13/10/2009 07:11:14 »
I think it has a nice philosophical debate. It'd be better if it wasn't written in brain-f**k

I do not agree that something like this could ever be proved, we're humans - we have our limits. We can only find with what we have. Can't really ask for more.
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« Reply #27 on: 13/10/2009 12:07:04 »
Mr "Scientist"
you say "Oh you know there is more then one?"
Yes, I know it because of the evidence.
There is, for example, one that realises there's more than one, and a second, who doesn't.

At the moment, the nearest thing to evidence you have is some fairy story about quantum trafic lights.
On that basis, you seem to be trying to rewrite physics.


Do you realise that you cannot win this argument?
If you were right then you would be arguing against yourself so you couldn't hope to win.
If not then you are wrong so you won't win.



Quantum mechanics allows for illusions. I'll give you another; one which mirrors the idea. Ever heard of the Single Electron Universe Theory?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

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Offline Dimi

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« Reply #28 on: 13/10/2009 12:41:36 »
See my previous post.

Also, Mr Scientist you might like this link http://www.stefonmears.com/fintach/ChaosDogma.html
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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #29 on: 13/10/2009 19:29:38 »
"Quantum mechanics allows for illusions. I'll give you another; one which mirrors the idea. Ever heard of the Single Electron Universe Theory?"

Yes, but I have never heard the sugestion that the electron can argue with itself.


There are clearly two "selfs" here- one is consious of the fact that (from its point of view) your idea is right and the other is consious of the fact that (from its point of view) it isn't.
That proves that they are different.
If they are different then they cannot be the same; there must be (at least) two.
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« Reply #30 on: 14/10/2009 01:58:00 »
"Quantum mechanics allows for illusions. I'll give you another; one which mirrors the idea. Ever heard of the Single Electron Universe Theory?"

Yes, but I have never heard the sugestion that the electron can argue with itself.


There are clearly two "selfs" here- one is consious of the fact that (from its point of view) your idea is right and the other is consious of the fact that (from its point of view) it isn't.
That proves that they are different.
If they are different then they cannot be the same; there must be (at least) two.


You've never heard of an electron entangling with itself...? In this case, wave mechanics must be obsolete... In the one-electron universe, it goes to show that a single electron can decohere.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #31 on: 14/10/2009 08:29:00 »
Entangling, yes, holding two different ideas in it's "mind" no.
Please disregard all previous signatures.

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« Reply #32 on: 14/10/2009 23:30:36 »
You've just described what was needed. Thank you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

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« Reply #33 on: 14/10/2009 23:32:39 »
And you think the electron cannot argue with itself? You might be surprised to know that electrons have an internal clock.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #34 on: 15/10/2009 18:41:22 »
You've just described what was needed. Thank you.
So, provided that an electron has a mind which can hold two mutually exclusive ideas at the same time then the idea that there is only one consciousness might be correct.

Thanks for sharing that.
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Offline Mr. Scientist

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« Reply #35 on: 17/10/2009 03:12:10 »
You've just described what was needed. Thank you.
So, provided that an electron has a mind which can hold two mutually exclusive ideas at the
same time then the idea that there is only one consciousness might be correct.

Thanks for sharing that.

Fool.

You ask all the wrong questions. Never mind understand which questions are allowed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

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« Reply #36 on: 17/10/2009 03:13:20 »
I have papers which prove you wrong too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

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Offline Madidus_Scientia

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« Reply #37 on: 18/10/2009 08:42:58 »
If there's only one consciousness don't you mean papers that prove yourself wrong?

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« Reply #38 on: 18/10/2009 11:18:38 »
No, they prove him to be both right and wrong at the same time.
Reductio ad adsurdum.
QED
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« Reply #39 on: 18/10/2009 17:04:38 »
If there's only one consciousness don't you mean papers that prove yourself wrong?

No.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

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« Reply #40 on: 18/10/2009 17:14:36 »
Time to broaden your minds folks. You are all thinking rigidly within the bounds of our experience. Just because we experience what is called a ''singular individual existence'' is but a mere illusion.

Such illusions are common within physics. I will give you two examples which have drastically-altered our perception of physical sciences. One being the Linear Time of Experience (now shown to be an illusion) and the Holographic Principle, which is a theory suggesting we live in a illusion.

Firstly, Linear Time. It has been shown by three different physicists i know of that Linear Time does not exist; in other words, time is not a direction in which consciousness and our experience of the world tunes to. The psychological arrow represents a type of river in time, where there is a discontinuous flow from the past and into the future, relative to the observer.

Howsoever these three scientists have shown that time is not linear really, and that this is an illusion of sorts. Real time ''out there'' in the world really exists for starts and stops.

The Holographic Principle states that we live on the wall of dimensions, and that we are a projection of this wall. Without getting deep into the theory, it suggests much like how shadows are formed on the wall of a cave, which is an analog of Plato's allegory of the cave. Reality simply at large, may not exactly seem what is objectively appears.

That which is subjective, and feels personal to me might go for a change too; it might seem ridiculous that there can be only one mind, but for a while physicists where saying that there was only one electron in the universe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-electron_universe so why not consciousness or the plural ''I''? Is such a theory really any different?

Broaden your minds, think outside the box. I wouldn't be suggesting this if it had no credibility within physics itself. What we experience as the selfish I may not be the entire block in which consciousness exists in.
« Last Edit: 18/10/2009 17:16:14 by Mr. Scientist »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

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Offline glovesforfoxes

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« Reply #41 on: 18/10/2009 21:15:55 »
it isn't that "we are all thinking rigidly within the bounds of our experience". it's that you have nearly zero evidence that supports your conclusion, and the evidence you DO have does not even properly support your hypothesis. the one-electron universe hypothesis, as you have said yourself, is a past tense hypothesis and is unrealistic based on information from other well supported theories. you have drawn some disanalogies like this to support the hypothesis' worth of being considered.

Quote from: Mr. Scientist
Imagine that Wigner is approaching a quantum traffic light with two possibilities, red and green; at the same time his friend is approaching the same light  from the perpendicular road.  Being busy Americans, they both choose green.  Unfortunately, their choices are contradictory; if both choices materialize at the same time, there would be pandemonium.  Obviously, only one of their choices counts, but whose?

            After many decades, three physicists at different places and times (Ludwig Bass in Australia, myself at Oregon, and Casey Blood at Rutgers, New Jersey), independently discovered the solution of the paradox: consciousness is one, nonlocal and cosmic, behind the two people’s local individuality.  They both choose but from this nonordinary state of one consciousness (which I call the quantum self) where there is no local individuality or selfishness so contradiction can be avoided.  This allows the common sense result that in many such crossings, Wigner and his friend each would get green fifty percent of the time; yet for any individual crossing, a creative opportunity for getting green is left open for each.'' [/b]

http://www.amitgoswami.org/consciousness-quantum-physics/

But then again, it would be better if you just read Ludvic Bass' account in his paper Hermethena.

Quote from: that mad man
A lot of QM is based on imaginary scenarios like the one above. QM can predict a lot of things but it does not mean that they will become true or a fact only that its a possibility.

Quote: "To expand this further, Bass shows how if there is a singular master consciousness, then it may have direct applications for psychic conditional theories, which usually remain outside the conventional wisdom of science"

It may be logical reasoning but a lot of his stuff is full if, may and could and not will.

Quote from: Mr. Scientist
So far, it's the most logical conclusion based from the soil of QM.

i just want to bold the thing that i think is the biggest flaw in all of this. you have non responded properly to it, just repeated that it's logical and makes sense. it's okay to accept this as a possibility, but don't talk as though it's been proven, it's barely even past the hypothesis stage and you're putting words like "proven" in the title? you need to put this in the context of science. it is a fringe hypothesis. it might be true. pink unicorns that fly around the earth might be true, but it's unlikely - so don't present your hypothesis as though it is likely.

besides all this, how is this hypothesis useful, even if it is right? you didn't answer that. it might be interesting and all that, but it has no use, and no further questions can really be asked after finding out the answer which also have no use.
The animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than blacks were made for whites, or women for men. - Alice Walker

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« Reply #42 on: 19/10/2009 02:25:18 »
it isn't that "we are all thinking rigidly within the bounds of our experience". it's that you have nearly zero evidence that supports your conclusion, and the evidence you DO have does not even properly support your hypothesis. the one-electron universe hypothesis, as you have said yourself, is a past tense hypothesis and is unrealistic based on information from other well supported theories. you have drawn some disanalogies like this to support the hypothesis' worth of being considered.

Quote from: Mr. Scientist
Imagine that Wigner is approaching a quantum traffic light with two possibilities, red and green; at the same time his friend is approaching the same light  from the perpendicular road.  Being busy Americans, they both choose green.  Unfortunately, their choices are contradictory; if both choices materialize at the same time, there would be pandemonium.  Obviously, only one of their choices counts, but whose?

            After many decades, three physicists at different places and times (Ludwig Bass in Australia, myself at Oregon, and Casey Blood at Rutgers, New Jersey), independently discovered the solution of the paradox: consciousness is one, nonlocal and cosmic, behind the two people’s local individuality.  They both choose but from this nonordinary state of one consciousness (which I call the quantum self) where there is no local individuality or selfishness so contradiction can be avoided.  This allows the common sense result that in many such crossings, Wigner and his friend each would get green fifty percent of the time; yet for any individual crossing, a creative opportunity for getting green is left open for each.'' [/b]

http://www.amitgoswami.org/consciousness-quantum-physics/

But then again, it would be better if you just read Ludvic Bass' account in his paper Hermethena.

Quote from: that mad man
A lot of QM is based on imaginary scenarios like the one above. QM can predict a lot of things but it does not mean that they will become true or a fact only that its a possibility.

Quote: "To expand this further, Bass shows how if there is a singular master consciousness, then it may have direct applications for psychic conditional theories, which usually remain outside the conventional wisdom of science"

It may be logical reasoning but a lot of his stuff is full if, may and could and not will.

Quote from: Mr. Scientist
So far, it's the most logical conclusion based from the soil of QM.

i just want to bold the thing that i think is the biggest flaw in all of this. you have non responded properly to it, just repeated that it's logical and makes sense. it's okay to accept this as a possibility, but don't talk as though it's been proven, it's barely even past the hypothesis stage and you're putting words like "proven" in the title? you need to put this in the context of science. it is a fringe hypothesis. it might be true. pink unicorns that fly around the earth might be true, but it's unlikely - so don't present your hypothesis as though it is likely.

besides all this, how is this hypothesis useful, even if it is right? you didn't answer that. it might be interesting and all that, but it has no use, and no further questions can really be asked after finding out the answer which also have no use.

I don't have proof, and most of physics yield no proof either, only predictions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

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« Reply #43 on: 19/10/2009 02:26:49 »
I do have evidence however. I take it that even though three physicists have independantly reached the same conclusion - with an added physical paper - but obviously this means nothing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

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Offline glovesforfoxes

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« Reply #44 on: 19/10/2009 08:51:51 »
but non-problem they solved is both a non-problem and only related to your idea, not evidence for it. if quantum mechanics does predict that there is only one consciousness, then something in quantum mechanics is wrong.
The animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than blacks were made for whites, or women for men. - Alice Walker

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Offline Mr. Scientist

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« Reply #45 on: 19/10/2009 17:58:30 »
What do you mean non-problem?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

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« Reply #46 on: 20/10/2009 04:59:29 »

Fool.


Please quit the ad hominems.


You ask all the wrong questions. Never mind understand which questions are allowed.


Including the putdowns.
« Last Edit: 20/10/2009 05:03:09 by demografx »

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Offline Mr. Scientist

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« Reply #47 on: 20/10/2009 05:44:45 »
I was frustrated then.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

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Offline demografx

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« Reply #48 on: 20/10/2009 18:19:52 »

I was frustrated then.


Not an excuse. And this is not the first instance. One more breach of this nature will get you banned.

An apology to Bored chemist is in order.

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #49 on: 20/10/2009 18:52:00 »
While an apology might be apropriate for the sake of good form, I'm not too bothered.
I only take insults to heart when they come from someone whose opinion I value.
My personal take on the matter is that someone who consistently tries to win a logically unwinnable argument by
appeal to authority i.e "I take it that even though three physicists have independantly reached the same conclusion "

or by seeking to ignore the issues  i.e. "You ask all the wrong questions. Never mind understand which questions are allowed."

seems to have mistaken this site for a theology forum.
To be honest, their insults bother me about as much as a three year old saying "You are horrid and you smell of wee!".
It's not polite; it shows frustration and a lack of maturity. It ought to be frowned upon, but it's certainly not worth losing sleep over. Laughing seems to me to be a more apropriate response.

Anyway, to get back to Mr Sciences perfectly valid question
"What do you mean non-problem?"

Imagine that it's about 1650 and, together with your philosopher friends, you have got bored of arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin* so you decide to ask the same question about dodos.
As you are trying to deduce the answer ab initio a servant comes in and says "They just killed the last dodo".

The question "How many angels can dance on the head of a dodo (or dodos on a pin)?" becomes a non-problem.
The circumstances where the question might have a meaning no longer exist.

Similarly, if you are talking about quantum traffic lights, influenced by the minds of the drivers and someone points out that the real world doesn't have traffic lights like that, you ought to see that the original problem (about the unreal lights) is a non-problem.

The old riddle about how much wood could a wood-chuck chuck.... is another example.
It can't so the answer isn't defined.

* incidentally, the answer is "all of them, but not all at the same time".
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