[Mr Andrew]

Ok, that makes sense.

[!]I still can't find any official documentation on the CaSO4/Al Thermite reaction so I can run it in school. Please help me!

"His mind is the ultimate weapon!"-MacGyver television series

[Mr Andrew]

Ok, that makes sense.

[!]I still can't find any official documentation on the CaSO4/Al Thermite reaction so I can run it in school. Please help me!

"His mind is the ultimate weapon!"-MacGyver television series

[Xare]

 This is ONE of many steel collums from the WTC.

 It has been cut by a THERMITE Shaped Charge Demolition Device.




  Please Inform yourself's

 INFOWARS.COM

  newbielink:http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/thermite_id_culprit_wtc_collapse.htm [nonactive]

9-11 was a False Flag Shadow Government Operation.  It was an Inside Job to set a Pretext for War.

[Mr Andrew]

quote:Originally posted by Xare


9-11 was a False Flag Shadow Government Operation.  It was an Inside Job to set a Pretext for War.

This is a Chemistry site, not a political thread.  Yeah, so thermite's a chemical reaction, fine.  But you don't need to go further than that.  Spare the rest of us who are interested in chemistry--PLEASE!

"His mind is the ultimate weapon!"-MacGyver television series

[Mr Andrew]

quote:Originally posted by Xare


9-11 was a False Flag Shadow Government Operation.  It was an Inside Job to set a Pretext for War.

This is a Chemistry site, not a political thread.  Yeah, so thermite's a chemical reaction, fine.  But you don't need to go further than that.  Spare the rest of us who are interested in chemistry--PLEASE!

"His mind is the ultimate weapon!"-MacGyver television series

[Xare]

  Ok more on topic

 Did you know that when you add sulfer to thermite its called thermate.

 They add the sulfer because it helps lower the melting point of steel.

9-11 was a False Flag Shadow Government Operation.  It was an Inside Job to set a Pretext for War.

[lightarrow]

quote:Originally posted by Xare

They add the sulfer because it helps lower the melting point of steel.

It's because FeS that lowers Fe melting point forming something like Fe2S?

[simpsonsman]

1. me and my friends tried to make the rust for thermite by talking steel whoole and putting it in blench/ vinigar mix. Is this rust good enough.

why talk when you can fight

[Mr Andrew]

If you just put it in water overnight it works just fine.

"His mind is the ultimate weapon!"-MacGyver television series

[simpsonsman]

so even thou we didnt use any water in the mix, we can still save it by putting it in water now?

why talk when you can fight

[lightarrow]

quote:Originally posted by simpsonsman

so even thou we didnt use any water in the mix, we can still save it by putting it in water now?

Rust is formed by the action of air oxygen on iron with the help of water.

[simpsonsman]

I Know but to make the rust we didnt use any water. We stuck steel wool in blech/vinger mix. So can we make this rust usable by putting it in water?

why talk when you can fight

[lightarrow]

quote:Originally posted by simpsonsman

I Know but to make the rust we didnt use any water. We stuck steel wool in blech/vinger mix. So can we make this rust usable by putting it in water?

What I mean is that, if you have really made rust, certainly it won't become something else by putting it in water.

By "blech" you mean "bleach" I suppose. So, even if I have never made this reaction, I suppose FeCl3 (iron 3 chloride) is formed as well, and this is not exactly rust, and it's also hygroscopic. Have you already used this kind of rust for thermite?

Anyway, as Mr Andrew said, if you put iron whool in water, better if you add a little of oxygenated water and a little bit of acid (any, vinegar it's ok) and you let it react overnight, it's ok the same.

Then, you have to dry the rust powder in a kitchen burner (or similar), however, to convert any amount of Fe(OH)3 into FeOOH or Fe2O3.

[simpsonsman]

Well we have never used this rust before, i my friend thought that It wouldnt work becuase it was pure enough. So I just want to know can this rust be saved or should I just throw It out. And what do you mean by oxygenated water, Sorry i dont know much about chemestry

why talk when you can fight

[lightarrow]

quote:Originally posted by simpsonsman

Well we have never used this rust before, i my friend thought that It wouldnt work becuase it was pure enough. So I just want to know can this rust be saved or should I just throw It out. And what do you mean by oxygenated water, Sorry i dont know much about chemestry

Rust doesn't ruin with time. It just remains as it is, water or not water.
Oxygenated water is that solution we use as disinfectant: oxygen dissolved in water.

[simpsonsman]

Im just asking, is rust usable for thermite?

why talk when you can fight

[lightarrow]

Im just asking, is rust usable for thermite?

You mean that you asked if you can use rust for thermite after having put it in water?
If this is the question, the answer is No; as I have already written: you have to remove water from rust, to use it in the thermite.

[Mr Andrew]

Simpsonsman, this is what i think the reaction of iron in bleach (sodium hypochlorite and sodium hydroxide) and vinegar would give:

12[H]+ + 6[OH]- + 6[ClO]- + 2Fe --> 2Fe(OH)3 + 3Cl2 + 6H2O

You wouldn't get much rust except what iron reacted with the water.  I could be wrong about this completely so don't take it as a truth without checking it with someone who knows more than me.

[lightarrow]

I'm sorry Mr Andrew but I have to correct you. You can't write a chemical reaction where H⁺ and OH^- ions are present at the same time, if bleach and vinegar (basic and acid respectively) have already mixed together. After mixing, the solution is either basic or acid, depending on the amount of vinegar you added. Tipically, adding an acid to bleach gives chlorine Cl₂ (so, it's quite dangerous if you breath it!) wich is more oxidizing than bleach itself.
Then Cl₂ reacts with Fe giving FeCl₃ and so Fe³⁺ (iron chlorine is water soluble) which, in turn, reacts with water, if the solution is not acid, giving
Fe(OH)₃: Fe³⁺ + 3H₂O → Fe(OH)₃ + 3H⁺.

[Mr Andrew]

Wow, thank you lightarrow.  I should have caught that.  Yup, ferric chloride would form then.  That might run a thermite reaction but I wouldn't trust it to be entirely safe.  Anything with chlorine in it and very high temperatures should be regarded as dangerous (Cl₂ gas is not pleasant to say the least).

I'm not positive about this but when iron reacts with oxygen in the presence of an water (or H⁺ ions more generally) Fe⁺³ ions form and O^-2 ions combine with the H⁺ ions to make water.  This then reacts to form Fe₂O₃ or rust.  If Fe⁺³ ions could be made more quickly than by reacting iron directly with oxygen, in the presence of water, rust could be made to form more quickly.

As I understand it, H₂O₂ in the presence of protons is a very good oxidizing agent.  Would it be possible to put iron in a solution of peroxide and an acid like vinegar and get rust more quickly than in just plain old water?  If so, this would be better than leaving iron in water overnight because it would happen much more quickly.

The half reactions would look like this:

3(2e- + H₂O₂ + H⁺ --> 2H₂O)
2(Fe --> Fe⁺³ + 3e-)