[neilep (OP)]

Do you think it's imperative that we learn how to clone ourselves in case some disaster occurs and we all end up sterile ?...cos that could really ruin a species day couldn't it ?....perhaps for the survival of the species it's vital eh ?.....and eveything else for that matter ...

Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!

[Rokitansky]

Hi Neil!

I`ve got in mind a phylosophical answer:
1)If you are an evolutionist you will say that if humans would dissapear from the face of the earth, other species would evolve and intelligence would reappear.
2)If you are religious, then you have your answer in the Bible, with apocalipse and 2nd coming of the Jesus on the Earth. Doesn`t mention anywhere reproductive incapability.

P.S. Please, do not abuse this comment to start a religion vs. Ateism debate. We had that before... Think of this not as a serious comment, but as a moment of inspiration. I appologise to anyone belonging to any other conffesion. There was no intention to be politicaly incorrect.

[DoctorBeaver]

quote:1)If you are an evolutionist you will say that if humans would dissapear from the face of the earth, other species would evolve and intelligence would reappear.

Dinosaurs were around quite a while & didn't manage it.

[DoctorBeaver]

Neil - the whole question of cloning raises a plethora of ethical & moral questions. That Korean doctor who is at the forefront of cloning research has already, allegedly (to keep the lawyers off my back), acted unethically in using eggs from a member of his staff & paying other women to donate their eggs.
I have mixed views on the subject & cannot, no matter how long & hard I consider it, come to any firm conclusions either way. I'm very cynical about people's motives & desire for power/wealth, so my head says we should jump on it from a great height & ensure it never again raises its ugly head. Another part of me, however, looks at the alleged benefits of cloning for stem cell harvesting & says "Yeah, it's great".

[ukmicky]

Neil i think I'm right in saying you don't actually need sperm to clone somebody. I think it has actually be done by using just a basic body cell, they removed the nucleus and inserted it inside an egg.

It was a lot more complicated than that but men ain't needed anymore we're redundant, because they can also use a nucleus from a womans cell to get the ball or balls rolling.[]

Maybe chris knows more.

Michael                                      

[DoctorBeaver]

Michael - females would also be redundant. To clone something you need only 1 cell containing its DNA. That could be a blood cell, skin cell, hair cell or whatever; zygotes become unnecessary completely. There is, obviously, much complexity involved; but basically it's a case of get a cell, extract the DNA, do clever things with it & let mitosis do the rest. Then hey presto you have an exact copy of the original.

[]->[][][][][]

[neilep (OP)]

quote:Originally posted by Rokitansky

Hi Neil!

Hi Darko ! welcome back !

Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!

[another_someone]

quote:Originally posted by DoctorBeaver

Michael - females would also be redundant. To clone something you need only 1 cell containing its DNA. That could be a blood cell, skin cell, hair cell or whatever; zygotes become unnecessary completely. There is, obviously, much complexity involved; but basically it's a case of get a cell, extract the DNA, do clever things with it & let mitosis do the rest. Then hey presto you have an exact copy of the original.

In theory, this is true – but at present, we do not yet have a fully functioning environment in which to bring the embryo to term.  It may well be that human females would not be necessary, since it might be that the close could be embryo could be brought to term in the womb of a non-human mother, but we still require some sort of mother (i.e. a female of some type).

[another_someone]

quote:Originally posted by DoctorBeaver
I have mixed views on the subject & cannot, no matter how long & hard I consider it, come to any firm conclusions either way. I'm very cynical about people's motives & desire for power/wealth, so my head says we should jump on it from a great height & ensure it never again raises its ugly head. Another part of me, however, looks at the alleged benefits of cloning for stem cell harvesting & says "Yeah, it's great".

My feelings about things like this is that if it is possible, it will be done.  The question is only whether you wish to control the processes of discovery and development of the techniques, or you wish someone else to take responsibility for the development of the technology.

We have demonstrated with nuclear technology, you cannot keep a lid on knowledge.

[ukmicky]

At sometime someone somewhere in someplace will legally or illegally attempt to push the boundaries and so as someone says its a case of allowing it and having some input or banning and let others take the responsibility

Michael                                      

[sharkeyandgeorge]

hmm relying on clones because the whole species gone sterile have you been watching stargate again neilep

"I realised i was sitting on a thousand tons of fuel in a rocket built by the lowest bidder"

[another_someone]

quote:Originally posted by ukmicky

At sometime someone somewhere in someplace will legally or illegally attempt to push the boundaries and so as someone says its a case of allowing it and having some input or banning and let others take the responsibility

Michael                                      

I should stress that he is not talking about this someone []

(I am another someone, not that someone) []

[neilep (OP)]

quote:Originally posted by sharkeyandgeorge

hmm relying on clones because the whole species gone sterile have you been watching stargate again neilep

"I realised i was sitting on a thousand tons of fuel in a rocket built by the lowest bidder"

Admittedly, I'm a Trekker....so. it seems that without watching and committing to memory the whole series of Stargate, I have in fact also mastered it ! []

Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!

[sharkeyandgeorge]

theres no shame in that ( so have i!)

"I realised i was sitting on a thousand tons of fuel in a rocket built by the lowest bidder"

[dont_panic]

Back to the first post... I think it is important really, i would like to know that we have the technology even if we dont use it until necessary...Im all for cloning []

[another_someone]

quote:Originally posted by dont_panic

Back to the first post... I think it is important really, i would like to know that we have the technology even if we dont use it until necessary...Im all for cloning []

Cloning may have its value in therapeutic use and in research, but should it ever be used on a massive scale for reproduction then one has a serious problem.

In some ways, cloning is the ultimate form of incest.  Although cloning is not as such a sexual act, and so will not be regarded in a court of law as an incestuous act; but the justification often used for  prohibiting incest (amongst adults – the issues regarding under-age sex within the family are different) is that the offspring of such a union will not have sufficient genetic diversity.  If one clones an individual, then one will have absolutely zero genetic diversity between the parent and the child.

The more logical solution to infertility, if it cannot be corrected in vivo, would seem to me to be the use of more sophisticated IVF, and if necessary, to develop means to grow gametes from stem cells.

[ukmicky]

Cloning is a bad idea because sooner or later genetic flaws will appear, and also genes that are normally turned on or off can be unnaturally switched the other way due to the  manipulation of the genetic material in a test tube. Just placing an egg in a test tube or Petri dish can switch a gene off that's normally on. Normally most OF these flaws are cast aside, and the good genes from the other parent is used. with cloning that can't happen.


PS  Wasn't there an episode of voyager that dealt with this issue[]

Michael                                      

[neilep (OP)]

But Michael...don't you think once we've got the hang of it we'll be able to iron out the genetic flaws ? Maybe we'll be able to clone clones which are capable of normal reproducion.

I think it's wise to invest time and energy into other ways of maintaining the human race. It's prudent to have more than one escape route.

I agree with you another_someone but I see no reason why we can not more than one string to our survival bow !

Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!

[Karen W.]

Here's a question for this cool thread! If I have myself cloned by taking a cell or what have you, is my clone going to be defective like I am? Will my clone also have congenital heart problems or is that something that would not effect a clone???

If not why? If so why? Also you see in all these movies the clone being adult size already...when cloning process is complete. Would I be wrong in assuming the clone would be an infant and start out as a new born just like we all did?