[that mad man]

That's the whole point jolly, with sin you also get the new idea of repentance and forgiveness just to make the whole complete.

One of the reasons the "New" (Catholic) religion gained popularity because it meant that the individual could sin and as log as they were repentant then they could be forgiven.

Rational, as in society if you break the law your locked up! What are you suggesting that people should be allowed to kill each other?

People already kill each other and the idea of sin does not prevent that, in fact as pointed out before the "Church" and religiously lead governments have been responsible for some wicked crimes in the past and all in the name of their GOD.

Judging a crime and locking people up is sensible in a modern society but very different from breaking the commandment "you shall not murder" and putting them to the electric chair!

Bee

[tony6789 (OP)]

most who use that dont beleive in god....

[Mjhavok]

The case about the oath is different.  OK, maybe I should not say much about it, because it is not my country, and it is not for me to decide what another nation should choose for themselves, so I speak only as to what I might think if it were my country, rather than to suggest that I have any right to dictate to another country.

If one casually curses in the name of God, without thought, that is one thing.  If one takes an oath that one is supposed to believe in, then one should take an oath that has meaning to oneself.  When one stands in court, and gives an oath to the court to tell the truth, one has a choice to take a secular affirmation or a religious oath, according to one's own beliefs.  The problem with the "one nation under God" is that it assumes the belief system of the nation, not of the person taking the oath; and I would consider it (if I were an American) inappropriate that anyone should regard me as a member of that nation as being under God.  That a president might, on his own account, swear under God, that is for him to choose, but he should not choose for those of his nation who may not share his belief.

I am not American and by no means an expert on their constitution but doesn't it include a mention of the separation of church and state. Isn't having 'In God we trust' on the money and "One nation under God" in a court oath a bit of a violation of that?

[socratus]

If your understanding of God is dead try mine.
========
The people created a God.
No one knows what the external characteristics
of this God are, a God who made himself known
with the name " I am who I am ".
Is it enough for us in the XXIc ?
Why didn,t the formula E=Mc^2 write in the Bible?
I explaine RELIGION by simple laws and formulas of Physics.
www.socratus.com
Best wishes.

[socratus]

The words "God", "soul", "religion",
 " dualism of consciousness", "human being"
 are possible  to explain  with the physical formulas and laws.
===============
THE GENESIS.
==============
1.
     T = 0K.
2.
    C/D=pi ,  E=Mc^2, R/N=k ,  h = 0 , i^2=-1 .
3.
     h = 1, c=1. ( light quanta).
4.
       h = h /2pi ,  c>1.
       E = hw,   e^2 = hca  ( electron).
      The Lorentz   transformations.
5.
     Star formation:
 e- -  k  -  He II - He I - rotating He - thermonuclear reaction:
      a) hw > kT
       b) hw = kT
       c) kT > hw
6.
     p ( proton)
7.
    Evolution of interaction:
       a)  electromagnetic,
       b)  nuclear,
       c)  biological.
8.
     Laws:
    a) The Law of conservation and transformation energy.
    b) The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle / law.
    c) The Pauli Exclusion Principle/ law.
9.
      Biopsychology: dualism of consciousness.
        The theory and practice.
===============================
 http://www.socratus.com
P.S.
This model of GENESIS is so simple, logical and clear,
that GOD himself will put his signature under it .
Question:
'Why isn,t God putting his signature now?
Answer:
Now he is busy.
Some time ago He opened his palm and
a process ' big bang' happened .
And now  He tries to compress his palm and
to change the 'big bang' in the 'singular point'.
As soon as He is free, He will sign this document.
======================

[johnbrandy]

For me, and probable most people, God is a concept, an idea. How do we go from a concept to a living fact? Moreover, there a different concepts of God. If we adhere to a certain concept, and its wrong, we might miss the mark. If it is possible to know God, it seems clear that we must first understand our own minds, in rather complete ways. And our capacity for self-deception. Until we transcend biases and preconceptions, how can we genuinely know anything, especially God. Yes, I understand the challenge, but what is the alternative. Few of us are willing to do the necessary work required to achieve the quality of mindfulness that can lead to direct perception. No doubt, this may sound fanciful, or unrealistic. How can you hope to entertain the "absolute" if you have not come terms with the relative. How can you  hope to entertain God if you have not come to terms with ordinary reality. It is possible to achieve greater levels of insight and understanding. Firstly, you must be absolutely serious and committed and willing to investigate the viability of this enterprise. There are many exercises than can facilitate this goal, but none are more important than continuous self-awareness. In other words, deliberately raising self-awareness to monitor your thought processes in order to detect biases and preconceived notions. This habit can lead to the cleansing of the doorways of perceptions and allow for  the possibility of direct insight, and eventually an appreciation of divinity, in term of your understanding. Thank you for allowing me to participate.     

[nothingnobody]

GOD IS AN ENERGY, NOT A PERSON.

[another_someone]

GOD IS AN ENERGY, NOT A PERSON.

To say God is this or that, whether He be energy or a concept, all misses a key part of the underlying question - is He sentient.

God may indeed be energy, but is it sentient energy?  Are you suggesting that all energy is God, or God is only some forms of energy?

[Quantumorigin7]

I think there has to be a God because like in another thread, I put it plain and simple. If the universe is as we know it, then it could have very well existed for eternity as other universes, and there had to be something that created them, they didn't just come out of complete blackness, I mean, come on now!!

[Mjhavok]

I think there has to be a God because like in another thread, I put it plain and simple. If the universe is as we know it, then it could have very well existed for eternity as other universes, and there had to be something that created them, they didn't just come out of complete blackness, I mean, come on now!!

Worst argument ever?

Smacks of desperation.

[paul.fr]

Worst argument ever?

Smacks of desperation.

ever? i think your "praise" is too high, it's only one of the worst arguments ever []

[Quantumorigin7]

I think there has to be a God because like in another thread, I put it plain and simple. If the universe is as we know it, then it could have very well existed for eternity as other universes, and there had to be something that created them, they didn't just come out of complete blackness, I mean, come on now!!

Worst argument ever?

Smacks of desperation.

I get this on every forum, it's so cliche to me now.

[Mjhavok]

I think there has to be a God because like in another thread, I put it plain and simple. If the universe is as we know it, then it could have very well existed for eternity as other universes, and there had to be something that created them, they didn't just come out of complete blackness, I mean, come on now!!

Worst argument ever?

Smacks of desperation.

I get this on every forum, it's so cliche to me now.

Maybe you get it on every forum because everyone but you seems to see it is a terrible argument.


There has to be a god because there has to be because there just has to be.

This satisfies you?

[Nobody's Confidant]

GOD IS AN ENERGY, NOT A PERSON.

Please explain.

This thread will never end. It is a forever conflict.

[johnbrandy]

Herein are many worthy ideas. God is and is not the issue. It is clear that the questions about God are the same as the questions about truth and knowledge. These are intellectual and philosophical questions, and therefore subjects of debate. Is this not largely the purpose of this forum? No one can prove the existence of God. Even if a genuine proof could be written, whom among us is prepared to comprehend and accept it? Yes, again, I must introduce the notion of the prepared mind. Free to evaluate these questions without the encumbrance of reactionary thinking. I do not know if God exist, in terms of the many definitions that I have been exposed to. But I will never know if I allow myself to surrender to shallow and reactionary opinions; lacking in reasoned thought, deep reflection, and sincere intentions. The important thing is to cultivate the need to seek truth and understanding. For me, discovering God is the absolute need to know the genuine truth in all things. "Forget" definitions. If God is the ultimate reality, why would you believe this reality would conveniently fit into anyones definition. Perhaps thats the problem, many religions and many definitions. Maybe the real question  is should we live our lives as if a divinity existed; a loving, knowing, intelligent force for the greatest good. I think so. How much better would the world be if we could accepted this simple idea. Look to your children for insight . Consider every kind deed. Consider the effect of acts of love in your life. It is very well possible that you already know "God", without direct or reflective insight. Take your time and be honest. "Knowing God is not knowing God". Knowing God is connecting with and reflecting the deepest impulse of the human spirit.   

[sooyeah]

In other words, deliberately raising self-awareness to monitor your thought processes in order to detect biases and preconceived notions. This habit can lead to the cleansing of the doorways of perceptions and allow for  the possibility of direct insight, and eventually an appreciation of divinity, in term of your understanding.

I believe thats called, the circumcision of the heart.

Knowing God is connecting with and reflecting the deepest impulse of the human spirit.   

Thankyou Johnbrandy, I heartily agree with you.

[the environmentalist]

btw, the universe COULD have come out of completey nothing.  (now I REALLY HOPE THIS IS RIGHT  [8]) ok, if there is only energy, no time, no matter, just energy, then its means that matter could have been made, there is energy in all matter, so this must be able to work the other way around. "the big bang" could have just been the sudden introduction of matter into the universe, giving us our dimensions. high presure goes to low preasure right? so this matter ball would have spread out into the void (low preasure areas) very fast, and maybe this is why the universe is still expanding, I know that space isnt matter as most people know it, but there is a constant stream of antimater-matter particles in void.  maybe this is just spaces way of spreading into the low preasure areas.

just a thought

[Quantum_Vaccuum]

Do you think god exists?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
there is your answer!

[Radrook]

Someone had to code the DNA instructions for cellular replication. To me that someone is God.

[Mjhavok]

Someone had to code the DNA instructions for cellular replication. To me that someone is God.

Your presupposition is fallacious.