Aether Displacement

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Offline mpc755

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Aether Displacement
« on: 09/04/2011 14:25:23 »
The aether is, or behaves similar to, a frictionless superfluid with properties of a solid.

'Superfluid Is Shown To Have Property Of A Solid'
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/07/990730072958.htm [nofollow]

"Northwestern University physicists have for the first time shown that superfluid helium-3 -- the lighter isotope of helium, which is a liquid that has lost all internal friction, allowing it to flow without resistance and ooze through tiny spaces that normal liquids cannot penetrate -- actually behaves like a solid in its ability to conduct sound waves."

'"Faraday's finding was the first indication that light and magnetism were related," says William Halperin, professor of physics and astronomy at Northwestern. "I wouldn't say that our discovery is of that magnitude, but it is significant as the first observation of a previously unknown mode of wave propagation in a liquid -- one that is of the type you would expect to see in a solid."'

The galaxy clusters in the following article are not traveling with dark matter. The galaxy clusters are moving through the aether. The galaxy clusters displace aether.

'Hubble Finds Ghostly Ring of Dark Matter
'http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/news/dark_matter_ring_feature.html [nofollow]

"Astronomers using NASA's Hubble Space Telescope got a first-hand view of how dark matter behaves during a titanic collision between two galaxy clusters. The wreck created a ripple of dark mater, which is somewhat similar to a ripple formed in a pond when a rock hits the water."

The 'pond' consists of aether. The moving 'particles' are the galaxy clusters. The 'ripple' is a gravitational wave. The 'ripple' is an aether displacement wave.

The above is physical evidence of a moving 'particle' having an associated aether displacement wave.

In a double slit experiment, the particle travels a single path and enters and exits a single slit. It is the associated aether displacement wave which enters and exits both slits. The aether displacement wave creates wave interference upon exiting the slits. As the particle exits a singel slit, it is this interference which alters the direction the particle travels. Detecting the particle causes a loss of coherence of the associated aether displacement wave, there is no wave interference, and the direction the particle travels is not altered.

The aether is detected every time a double slit experiment is performed.

Aether has mass. Aether physically occupies three dimensional space. Aether is physically displaced by matter. Aether is not at rest when displaced. Displaced aether exerts force towards matter. Force exerted towards matter by aether displaced by matter is gravity.

Aether Displacement explains why the shape of the Milky Way's 'dark matter' is in the shape of a squished beach ball.

'Dark Halo Around Our Galaxy Looks Like Squished Beach Ball'
http://www.space.com/7746-dark-halo-galaxy-squished-beach-ball.html [nofollow]

"Dark matter seems to shroud the remaining visible matter in giant spheres called haloes."

The Milky Way's halo is displaced aether.

"But the new study found that the Milky Way's halo isn't exactly spherical, but squished. In fact, its beach-ball form is flattened in a surprising direction perpendicular to the galaxy's visible, pancake-shaped spiral disk."

All of the aether displaced by the Milky Way matter exerts force towards the matter. The force exerted towards the matter by the aether displaced perpendicular to the plane of the galaxy's spiral disk offset. It is the aether which is displaced outward relative to the plane of the spiral disk which exerts force towards the center of the galaxy. This forces the matter closer together which results in the displaced aether looking like a squished beach ball.

Matter does not move with dark matter. Matter moves through the aether.

'Offset between dark matter and ordinary matter: evidence from a sample of 38 lensing clusters of galaxies'
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2966.2010.16739.x/abstract [nofollow]

"We compile a sample of 38 galaxy clusters which have both X-ray and strong lensing observations, and study for each cluster the projected offset between the dominant component of baryonic matter centre (measured by X-rays) and the gravitational centre (measured by strong lensing). Among the total sample, 45 per cent clusters have offsets >10 arcsec. The >10 arcsec separations are significant, considering the arcsecond precision in the measurement of the lensing/X-ray centres. This suggests that it might be a common phenomenon in unrelaxed galaxy clusters that gravitational field is separated spatially from the dominant component of baryonic matter. It also has consequences for lensing models of unrelaxed clusters since the gas mass distribution may differ from the dark matter distribution and give perturbations to the modelling. Such offsets can be used as a statistical tool for comparison with the results of Lambda cold dark matter ( CDM) simulations and to test the modified dynamics."

The offset is due to the galaxy clusters moving through the aether.

'Ether and the Theory of Relativity - Albert Einstein'
http://www.tu-harburg.de/rzt/rzt/it/Ether.html [nofollow]

"Since according to our present conceptions the elementary particles of matter are also, in their essence, nothing else than condensations of the electromagnetic field"

The electromagnetic field is a state of aether.

Matter is condensations of aether.

DOES THE INERTIA OF A BODY DEPEND UPON ITS ENERGY-CONTENT?' A. EINSTEIN
http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/e_mc2.pdf [nofollow]

"If a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass diminishes by L/c2."

The mass of the body does diminish; however, the matter which no longer exists as part of the body has not vanished. It still exists, as aether.

Matter evaporates into aether.

As matter converts to aether it expands in three dimensional space. The physical effects this transition has on the neighboring aether and matter is energy.

Mass is conserved. Energy is conserved.

A change in state of that which has mass is energy.

All 'delayed choice quantum eraser' experiments are explained by understanding conservation of momentum and a moving particle has an associated aether displacement wave.

In the image on the right here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_choice_quantum_eraser#The_experiment [nofollow]
When the downgraded photon pair are created, in order for there to be conservation of momentum, the original photons momentum is conserved. This means the downgraded photon pair have opposite polarizations. We will describe one of the photons as being the 'up' photon and the other photon as being the 'down' photon. One of the downgraded photons travels either the red or blue path towards D0 and the other photon travels either the red or blue path towards the prism.

There are physical waves in the aether propagating both the red and blue paths. The aether waves propagating towards D0 interact with the lens and create interference prior to reaching D0. The aether waves
create interference which alters the direction the photon travels prior to reaching D0. There are actually two interference patterns being created at D0. One associated with the 'up' photons when they arrive at D0 and the other interference pattern associated with the 'down' photons when they arrive at D0.

Both 'up' and 'down' photons are reflected by BSa and arrive at D3. Since there is a single path towards D3 there is nothing for the wave in the aether to interfere with and there is no interference pattern and since it is not determined if it is an 'up' or 'down' photon being detected at D3 there is no way to distinguish between the photons arriving at D0 which interference pattern each photon belongs to. The same for photons reflected by BSb and arrive at D4.

Photons which pass through BSa and are reflected by BSc and arrive at D1 are either 'up' or 'down' photons but not both. If 'up' photons arrive at D1 then 'down' photons arrive at D2. The opposite occurs for photons which pass through BSb. Photons which pass through BSa and pass through BSb and arrive at D1 are all either 'up' or 'down' photons. If all 'up' photons arrive at D1 then all 'down' photons arrive at D2. Since the physical waves in the aether traveling both the red and blue paths are combined prior to D1 and D2 the aether waves create interference which alters the direction the photon travels. Since all 'up' photons arrive at one of the detectors and all 'down' photons arrive at the other an interference pattern is created which reflects back to the interference both sets of photons are creating at D0.

The following experiment will provide evidence of Aether Displacement:

Instead of having a single beam splitter BSc have two beam splitters BSca and BScb. Have the photons reflected by mirror Ma interact with BSca and have the photons reflected by mirror Mb interact with BScb. Do not combine the red and blue paths. Have additional detectors D1a, D2a, D1b, and D2b. Have the photons reflected by and propagate through BSca be detected at D1a and D2a. Have the photons reflected by and propagate through BScb be detected at D1b and D2b. If you compare the photons detected at D1a and D1b with the photons detected at D0, the corresponding photons detected at D0 will form an interference pattern. If you compare the photons detected at D2a and D2b with the photons detected at D0, the corresponding photons detected at D0 will form an interference pattern. What is occurring is all 'up' photons are being detected at one pair of detectors, for example D1a and D1b, and all 'down' photons are being detected at the other pair of detectors, for example D2a and D2b. Interference patterns do not even need to be created in order to determine the interference patterns created at D0.

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Offline JMLCarter

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Aether Displacement
« Reply #1 on: 10/04/2011 21:18:09 »
It's not uncommon with aether theories that the speed of light is impacted in some way by the aether (after accounting for relativistic effects).

Is that the case here, and if so would not dark matter halos around galaxies distort their image?


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Offline mpc755

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Aether Displacement
« Reply #2 on: 11/04/2011 00:07:55 »
The distortion of light by the dark matter/aether is how the offset is being detected. The distortion of light by the dark matter/aether is what is allowing for the detection of the 'ripple' caused by the galaxy cluster collision.

'Offset between dark matter and ordinary matter: evidence from a sample of 38 lensing clusters of galaxies'
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2966.2010.16739.x/abstract [nofollow]

"We compile a sample of 38 galaxy clusters which have both X-ray and strong lensing observations, and study for each cluster the projected offset between the dominant component of baryonic matter centre (measured by X-rays) and the gravitational centre (measured by strong lensing). Among the total sample, 45 per cent clusters have offsets >10 arcsec. The >10 arcsec separations are significant, considering the arcsecond precision in the measurement of the lensing/X-ray centres. This suggests that it might be a common phenomenon in unrelaxed galaxy clusters that gravitational field is separated spatially from the dominant component of baryonic matter. It also has consequences for lensing models of unrelaxed clusters since the gas mass distribution may differ from the dark matter distribution and give perturbations to the modelling. Such offsets can be used as a statistical tool for comparison with the results of Lambda cold dark matter ( CDM) simulations and to test the modified dynamics."

The offset is due to the galaxy clusters moving with respect to the state of the aether.

The analogy is a submarine moving through the ocean. You are a mile from the submarine. A mile on the other side of the submarine are many lights. As the submarine moves between you and the lights the light waves from the distant light sources changes as it interacts with the water displaced by the submarine. There will be an offset between the submarine itself and its 'gravitational center' as determined by measuring the light which propagates through the water displaced by the moving submarine.

So, in response to your question, the submarine is displacing the water. This most likely will result in a somewhat distorted image of the submarine you see. However, since the interaction of the submarine and the water is always, or almost always, the same in terms of the state of the water as determined by its connections with the submarine and the state of the neighboring water being the water's state of displacement how are you to know the image you see of the submarine is likely somewhat distorted?
« Last Edit: 13/04/2011 14:52:59 by mpc755 »

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Offline JMLCarter

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Aether Displacement
« Reply #3 on: 14/04/2011 01:04:18 »
OK, fair enough, that I rescind.

Which leaves me uncomfortable with
1)"Matter evaporates into aether."
Einstein was talking about energy loss through radiation in the paper you quoted. So why do you need this bit of the theory? Is the displaced dark matter in halos not heavy enough that you need to generate more

2) The expansion of the universe must be resulting in a massive creation of energy as more massive aether? 

3) On the scale of galaxies I don't think quantum effects would not apply due to de-coherence (the super-fluid opener was just an analogy, right). So what is causing the displacement between matter and dark matter which don't interact in any known way except (attractive) gravity?

4) "Aether is not at rest when displaced. Displaced aether exerts force towards matter. " - seems like there needs to be a theoretical mechanism by which displaced aether suddenly exerts gravity, but undisturbed aether distributes itself evenly throughout the universe?

5) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_choice_quantum_eraser#The_experiment - its over the limit of my current understanding on QM

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Offline mpc755

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Aether Displacement
« Reply #4 on: 14/04/2011 13:42:53 »
OK, fair enough, that I rescind.

Which leaves me uncomfortable with
1)"Matter evaporates into aether."
Einstein was talking about energy loss through radiation in the paper you quoted. So why do you need this bit of the theory? Is the displaced dark matter in halos not heavy enough that you need to generate more

The key is to understand aether and matter are different states of the same material. When an atomic bomb explodes, matter evaporates into aether. The physical effects caused by the matter physically expanding into aether is energy. The other reason this is important is to understand, as far as we know, there is no space, nor any part of three dimensional space, devoid of mass. Energy is a change in state of that which has mass. Energy is a change in state of that which physically occupies three dimensional space.

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2) The expansion of the universe must be resulting in a massive creation of energy as more massive aether?

The Universe is, or the local Universe we exist in is in, a jet.

'Mysterious Cosmic 'Dark Flow' Tracked Deeper into Universe'
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/releases/2010/10-023.html [nofollow]

'The clusters appear to be moving along a line extending from our solar system toward Centaurus/Hydra, but the direction of this motion is less certain. Evidence indicates that the clusters are headed outward along this path, away from Earth, but the team cannot yet rule out the opposite flow. "We detect motion along this axis, but right now our data cannot state as strongly as we'd like whether the clusters are coming or going," Kashlinsky said.'

The clusters are headed along this path because the Universe is, or the local Universe we exist in is, a jet. Analogous to the polar jet of a black hole.

The following is an image analogous of the Universal jet:

http://aether.lbl.gov/image_all.html [nofollow]

The reason for the 'expansion' of the universe is the continual emission of aether into the Universal jet. Three dimensional space associated with the Universe itself is not expanding. What we see in our telescopes is the matter associated with the Universe moving outward and away from the Universal jet emission point. In the image above, '1st Stars' is where the conditions enable aether to condense into matter.

The following is an image analogous of the Universe, or the local Universe, we exist in:

http://www.astro.ucla.edu/planetarium/graphics/st_images/BlackHole.jpg [nofollow]

The change in state of the aether emitted into and propagating through the Universal jet is dark energy.

It's not the Big Bang. It's the Big Ongoing.

Quote
3) On the scale of galaxies I don't think quantum effects would not apply due to de-coherence (the super-fluid opener was just an analogy, right). So what is causing the displacement between matter and dark matter which don't interact in any known way except (attractive) gravity?

Aether is, or behaves similar to, a frictionless superfluid with properties of a solid. Aether physically occupies three dimensional space. Aether is physically displaced by matter. Aether is not at rest when displaced. Displaced aether exerts force towards matter. Force exerted towards matter by aether displaced by matter is gravity.

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4) "Aether is not at rest when displaced. Displaced aether exerts force towards matter. " - seems like there needs to be a theoretical mechanism by which displaced aether suddenly exerts gravity, but undisturbed aether distributes itself evenly throughout the universe?

You have a tank filled with a frictionless superfluid. The frictionless superfluid is evenly distributed in the tank. You place a mesh container full of marbles into the tank. The frictionless superfluid occupies the space between the marbles. The frictionless superfluid is also displaced by the marbles. You take the mesh bag of marbles out of the tank. When you take the mesh bag of marbles out of the tank there is not a void left in the tank where the marbles were. The frictionless superfluid fills-in where the mesh bag was. The frictionless superfluid was not at rest when displaced. The frictionless superfluid exerted force towards the mesh bag of marbles. When you get to something as large as the Earth and the amount of aether the matter which is the Earth displaces, the force exerted by the displaced aether towards the Earth IS gravity.
« Last Edit: 14/04/2011 16:23:36 by mpc755 »

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Offline JMLCarter

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« Reply #5 on: 14/04/2011 21:03:32 »
1) so is matter "able to change into" aether or is it "continuously changing into aether everywhere throughout the universe" the word "evaporate" leads me to think you are talking about all matter having some kind of half-life.

2) Alright - the theory is clear.

3)OK, it's frictionless, so it just gets pushed out of the way without any work being done. But there must be a force doing the pushing, even so.

4) The gravitational attraction between two galaxies in orbit is stronger because of dark matter. How can aether displaced by one galaxy result in increased gravitational attraction towards a different galaxy (like its binary counterpart)?

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Offline mpc755

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« Reply #6 on: 14/04/2011 22:15:31 »
Quote
1) so is matter "able to change into" aether or is it "continuously changing into aether everywhere throughout the universe" the word "evaporate" leads me to think you are talking about all matter having some kind of half-life.

Aether is only able to condense into matter where the conditions support the transition. My guess is this is where the pressure is great enough to cause the condensation. For example, in '1st Stars' in the following image the amount of aether being emitted into the Universal jet creates enough pressure where aether condenses into matter. Matter evaporates into aether where the conditions allow it. For example, in an atomic bomb and inside stars.

http://aether.lbl.gov/image_all.html [nofollow]

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3)OK, it's frictionless, so it just gets pushed out of the way without any work being done. But there must be a force doing the pushing, even so.

'Frictionless supersolid a step closer'
http://www.physorg.com/news185201084.html [nofollow]

"Superfluidity and superconductivity cause particles to move without friction. Koos Gubbels investigated under what conditions such particles keep moving endlessly without losing energy, like a swimmer who takes one mighty stroke and then keeps gliding forever along the swimming pool."

'On the super-fluid property of the relativistic physical vacuum medium and the inertial motion of particles'
http://arxiv.org/ftp/gr-qc/papers/0701/0701155.pdf [nofollow]

"Abstract: The similarity between the energy spectra of relativistic particles and that of quasi-particles in super-conductivity BCS theory makes us conjecture that the relativistic physical vacuum medium as the ground state of the background field is a super fluid medium, and the rest mass of a relativistic particle is like the energy gap of a quasi-particle. This conjecture is strongly supported by the results of our following investigation: a particle moving through the vacuum medium at a speed less than the speed of light in vacuum, though interacting with the vacuum medium, never feels friction force and thus undergoes a frictionless and inertial motion."

There is no loss of energy in the interaction of matter and aether. Whatever energy is required to displace the aether the aether returns to the object as the aether 'displaces back'. Whatever force is required by the object to displace the aether the aether exerts the same amount of force towards the object.

Quote
4) The gravitational attraction between two galaxies in orbit is stronger because of dark matter. How can aether displaced by one galaxy result in increased gravitational attraction towards a different galaxy (like its binary counterpart)?

What is presently postulated as dark matter is aether. Matter does not move with dark matter. Matter moves through the aether. Aether has mass. Aether physically occupies three dimensional space. Aether is physically displaced by matter.

The aether displaced by the Sun extends far past the Earth. The aether displaced by the Earth extends past the Sun. The aether is not at rest when displaced. The aether displaced by the Sun exerts force towards the Sun. The aether displaced by the Earth exerts force towards the Earth. This force, along with the cancellation of the force between the Earth and the Sun, keeps the Earth in orbit about the Sun.

It is the force exerted by the displaced aether towards the matter which IS gravity.

The gravitational force between two galaxies in orbit IS because of the aether they each displace.

Think of two boats on a lake. If the boats displace enough water and you get the boats close enough together the water displaced by each boat will encompass the other boat. This along with the lack of displaced water between the boats keeping the boats apart will cause the boats to be forced together.
« Last Edit: 14/04/2011 22:21:57 by mpc755 »

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Offline mpc755

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Aether Displacement
« Reply #7 on: 16/04/2011 17:31:24 »
A moving physical particle has an associated physical wave. An ether wave. Ether has mass. Ether physically occupies three dimensional space. Ether is displaced by matter. A moving particle has an associated ether displacement wave. In a double slit experiment, the physical particle travels a single path and enters and exits a single slit. It is the associated physical ether wave which enters and exits multiple slits. The ether wave creates interference upon exiting the slits and it is this wave interference which alters the direction the particle travels. Detecting the particle causes there to be a loss of coherence of the associated ether wave and there is no interference.

Not quite ready to understand what is presently postulated as dark matter is ether?

Then what occurs between a moving physical particle and the associated physical dark matter the moving particle interacts with?

Dark matter has mass. This means dark matter physically occupies three dimensional space. Dark matter is physically displaced by a moving particle. The moving particle has an associated physical dark matter displacement wave. In a double slit experiment, the moving physical particle travels a single path and enters and exits a single slit. It is the associated dark matter displacement wave which enters and exits both slits. The dark matter displacement wave creates wave interference upon exiting the slits. It is this wave interference which alters the direction the particle travels. Detecting the particle destroys the coherence of the associated dark matter displacement wave, there is no wave interference, and the direction the particle travels is not altered.

'Hubble Finds Ghostly Ring of Dark Matter'
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/news/dark_matter_ring_feature.html [nofollow]

"Astronomers using NASA's Hubble Space Telescope got a first-hand view of how dark matter behaves during a titanic collision between two galaxy clusters. The wreck created a ripple of dark mater, which is somewhat similar to a ripple formed in a pond when a rock hits the water."

How is it the moving galaxy clusters have associated dark matter displacement waves but a particle in a double slit experiment does not?

The particle in a double slit experiment does have an associated dark matter displacement wave.
« Last Edit: 16/04/2011 20:21:50 by mpc755 »

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Offline mpc755

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« Reply #8 on: 29/04/2011 12:15:40 »
'Interpretation of quantum mechanics by the double solution theory - Louis de BROGLIE'
http://aflb.ensmp.fr/AFLB-classiques/aflb124p001.pdf [nofollow]

"This result may be interpreted by noticing that, in the present theory, the particle is defined as a very small region of the wave where the amplitude is very large, and it therefore seems quite natural that the internal motion rythm of the particle should always be the same as that of the wave at the point where the particle is located."

The particle defined as a very small region of the wave means the particle enters and exits a single slit in a double slit experiment and it is the associated physical wave which enters and exits both. The associated physical wave creates wave interference upon exiting the slits. As the particle exits a single slit it is this wave interference which alters the direction the particle travels. Detecting the particle causes there to be a loss of coherence of the associated physical wave, there is no wave interference, and the direction the particle travels is not altered.

de Broglie stated the particle is defined as a very small region of the wave. It doesn't matter if the particle is a photon, electron, atom, or C-60 molecule. In de Broglie's wave mechanics, the physical particle enters and exits a single slit in a double slit experiment and it is the associated physical wave which enters and exits both.

The wave-particle duality of wave mechanics correctly defines what occurs physically in nature in a double slit experiment.

In Aether Displacement, the physical wave is an aether wave.

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Offline yor_on

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« Reply #9 on: 05/05/2011 20:12:13 »
So the aether act with a pressure?
And light?

Frames of reference and inertial frames?
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Offline mpc755

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« Reply #10 on: 05/05/2011 21:15:08 »
So the aether act with a pressure?

Correct.

Quote
And light?

It is not known if a photon is a particle which has an associated external aether displacement wave or if the photon 'particle' consists of a very small region of the wave itself.

I agree with de Broglie wave mechanics. A moving physical particle has an associated physical wave. In aether displacement, the physical wave is an aether wave.

Quote
Frames of reference and inertial frames?

In Einstein's train gedanken if the embankment is at rest with respect to the state of the aether then the embankment frame is an inertial frame. If the embankment is at rest with respect to the state of the aether then the train is not. However, events which are determined to be simultaneous for an Observer on the train are determined to be simultaneous for all Observers on the train. The train frame is a Simultaneous Event Frame.

In Einstein's train gedanken assume the aether is at rest with respect to the embankment. Two Observers get together at M' on the train and synchronize their clocks. As the Observer walks towards B' they are walking against the 'flow' of aether and their clock is affected more by this additional force of the aether on the clock and the clock being walked towards B' ticks the slowest. The clock being walked to A' is being walked with the 'flow' of aether and the clock being walked to A' is under the affects of the least amount of force of the aether and ticks the fastest. Once at A' and B' the clocks tick at the same rate because they are both under the same force of the aether.

When the lightning strikes occur at A/A' and B/B' and arrive at M on the embankment simultaneously the Observers on the train conclude the lightning strike at B' occurred prior to the lightning strike at A' because the clock reads an earlier time than the clock at A' does when the lightning strikes occurred.

No matter how you measure the speed of light on the train every type of measurement possible is with respect to the state of the aether. Everything is with respect to the state of the aether. This is why light is measured to be 'c'.

The experimental evidence for the above understanding is the Hafele and Keating Experiment.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/HBASE/Relativ/airtim.html [nofollow]

"Relative to the atomic time scale of the U.S. Naval Observatory, the flying clocks lost 59+/-10 nanoseconds during the eastward trip and gained 273+/-7 nanosecond during the westward trip, where the errors are the corresponding standard deviations."

Flying with the Earth's rotation, eastward, is flying against the 'flow' of aether, relative to the surface of the Earth, causing a greater aether force on the atomic clock causing the atomic clock to tick slower. Flying against the Earth's rotation, westward, is flying with the 'flow' of aether, relative to the surface of the Earth, causing a lower aether force on the atomic clock causing the atomic clock to tick faster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_frame_of_reference [nofollow]

"In general relativity, an inertial reference frame is only an approximation that applies in a region that is small enough for the curvature of space to be negligible."

In aether displacement, an inertial reference frame is only an approximation that applies in a region that is small enough for the displacement of the aether to be negligible.
« Last Edit: 05/05/2011 21:43:03 by mpc755 »

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Offline yor_on

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« Reply #11 on: 06/05/2011 04:50:17 »
Let me see if I got this right?

Are you stating that the direction of the aether will induce a different time dilation?
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Offline mpc755

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« Reply #12 on: 06/05/2011 14:39:09 »
Let me see if I got this right?

Are you stating that the direction of the aether will induce a different time dilation?

The rate at which an atomic clock ticks is determined by the force of the aether in which it exists. The greater the force of the aether exerted on and throughout an atomic clock the slower the clock ticks.

In terms of motion, the speed of a GPS satellite with respect to the state of the aether causes it to displace more aether and for that aether to exert more force on the clock in the GPS satellite than the force of the aether associated with a clock at rest with respect to the Earth. This causes the GPS satellite clock to "fall behind clocks on the ground by about 7 microseconds per day". The aether displaced by the Earth exerts less force on the GPS satellite than a similar clock at rest on the Earth causing the "the clocks in each GPS satellite [to] get ahead of ground-based clocks by 45 microseconds per day". The force of the aether associated with the speed at which the GPS satellite moves with respect to the state of the aether and the force of the aether associated with the aether displaced by the Earth cause "the clocks on-board each satellite [to] tick faster than identical clocks on the ground by about 38 microseconds per day (45-7=38)".
(quoted text from http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html [nofollow]).
« Last Edit: 06/05/2011 15:04:07 by mpc755 »

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Offline imatfaal

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« Reply #13 on: 06/05/2011 16:54:50 »
MPC - first off the references you are quoting are not specifically about the effect of the æther - they rely on GR and SR and the authors / researchers might be slightly perturbed that they are being used as confirmations of the existence of the æther.

Can you confirm that the GPS satellites that are in a more polar orbit around the earth need less adjustment than those in a more equatorial orbit.  Those in a polar orbit are relative to the sun (or other distant point) travelling through the æther at a almost totally uniform velocity - whilst those in an equatorial orbit are travelling through the æther at a sinusoidally varying velocity.  I would thus presume that for the system to work that this variation is accounted for - can you confirm this or explain what is incorrect?
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« Reply #14 on: 06/05/2011 17:43:10 »
MPC - first off the references you are quoting are not specifically about the effect of the æther - they rely on GR and SR and the authors / researchers might be slightly perturbed that they are being used as confirmations of the existence of the æther.

I thought of that. I liked the way it was worded in the reference. Wasn't sure if I should just take the language or reference the article. I think we are all aware the article is discussing SR and GR and not aether displacement.

Quote
Can you confirm that the GPS satellites that are in a more polar orbit around the earth need less adjustment than those in a more equatorial orbit.  Those in a polar orbit are relative to the sun (or other distant point) travelling through the æther at a almost totally uniform velocity - whilst those in an equatorial orbit are travelling through the æther at a sinusoidally varying velocity.  I would thus presume that for the system to work that this variation is accounted for - can you confirm this or explain what is incorrect?

This reads to me like you are thinking of the aether of Lorentz which is immobile which the Earth moves through. The aether of aether displacement is displaced by the Earth. The atomic clocks in the satellites are much more under the effects of the state of the aether caused by its displacement by the Earth than any other effect.

The Hafele and Keating Experiment demonstrates this.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/HBASE/Relativ/airtim.html [nofollow]

"Relative to the atomic time scale of the U.S. Naval Observatory, the flying clocks lost 59+/-10 nanoseconds during the eastward trip and gained 273+/-7 nanosecond during the westward trip, where the errors are the corresponding standard deviations."

Flying with the Earth's rotation, eastward, is flying against the 'flow' of aether, relative to the surface of the Earth, causing a greater aether force on the atomic clock causing the atomic clock to tick slower. Flying against the Earth's rotation, westward, is flying with the 'flow' of aether, relative to the surface of the Earth, causing a lower aether force on the atomic clock causing the atomic clock to tick faster.

So, two satellites in an equatorial orbit both traveling at the same speed with respect to the surface of the Earth should have to have their clocks adjusted accordingly.

A satellite in a polar orbit which continually passes over the same land mass is going to interact with more aether than a satellite in polar orbit which lags behind the rotation of the Earth. The atomic clock in the satellite with the polar orbit which lags behind the Earth's rotation is going to tick faster.

Think of the Earth as moving through a frictionless superfluid with properties of a solid. The Earth displaces the frictionless superfluid. If all of the GPS are the same distance from the surface of the Earth than the rate at which their associated atomic clocks tick is determined by the rate at which the travel through the aether displaced by the Earth. The faster the satellite moves with respect to the state of the aether the more force the aether exerts towards the atomic clock and the slower the clock ticks.

The rate at which the atomic clock ticks in a satellite in polar orbit and in an equatorial orbit depends on how they are moving with respect to the state of the aether.
« Last Edit: 06/05/2011 18:03:18 by mpc755 »

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« Reply #15 on: 06/05/2011 18:44:00 »
You know, I like Einsteins ideas of a friction less space. When it comes to the Hafele and Keating Experiment it's a little strange in the way it delivers two types of time dilation depending on the direction, but it was a rude experiment as I think of it. Not then, but looking back at it we today have better ways to define time dilation, like between a clock on a table relative moving the other atomic clock to the floor.

It's possible to define a time dilation relative the gravity, there is a relation and that was what they did to explain the result, also defining it relative a thought 'center' of that gravity. That, combined with the motion induced relative that gravitational point made the results palatable.

And that must be right, you cannot only use motion, or possibly if wanting to use that description then include Earth as gravitationally constantly uniformly accelerating at one gravity, as that is its equivalence in gravity as described by Einstein. He wouldn't have been surprised over the result of that experiment.
==

Although I still get a slight headache trying to see how it would work as we know that the gravity differs depending on where on earth, or above it, you are. But I presume that the thought up center was a elegant way of getting around that problem?

The 'time' as such lives in a world in where every point, you defining a 'time' from, must include 'gravity's potential' at that point, also defined relative what motion you observing has relative that point. So you have a space in where every point can be said to have a certain 'time dilation' in itself if you ignore gravity's equivalence to motion, as well as having a added 'time dilation' relative the 'frames of reference' compared. That means your frame relative the 'point' you compare your 'time' too.
« Last Edit: 06/05/2011 19:02:02 by yor_on »
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« Reply #16 on: 06/05/2011 19:11:34 »
H&K is entirely explainable using einstein's theories.

What is a frictionless superfluid with the properties of a solid? (superfluids flow, solids don't; I fail to see why this supposed state isn't self-contradictory)

At what orbit from the earth does the earth's passage through the æther become the less dominant feature - ie at what distance is the æther no longer sufficiently disturbed by the earth's passage for differential orbits to distinguished by the effects of the æther alone?

Can you describe an experiment (done or future) that would prove the existence of the æther, or could you describe an experiment (done or future) that would prove the non-existence of the æther?
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« Reply #17 on: 06/05/2011 19:18:20 »
You know, I like Einsteins ideas of a friction less space. When it comes to the Hafele and Keating Experiment it's a little strange in the way it delivers two types of time dilation depending on the direction, but it was a rude experiment as I think of it. Not then, but looking back at it we today have better ways to define time dilation, like between a clock on a table relative moving the other atomic clock to the floor.

It's possible to define a time dilation relative the gravity, there is a relation and that was what they did to explain the result, also defining it relative a thought 'center' of that gravity. That, combined with the motion induced relative that gravitational point made the results palatable.

And that must be right, you cannot only use motion, or possibly if wanting to use that description then include Earth as gravitationally constantly uniformly accelerating at one gravity, as that is its equivalence in gravity as described by Einstein. He wouldn't have been surprised over the result of that experiment.
==

Although I still get a slight headache trying to see how it would work as we know that the gravity differs depending on where on earth, or above it, you are. But I presume that the thought up center was a elegant way of getting around that problem?

The 'time' as such lives in a world in where every point, you defining a 'time' from, must include 'gravity's potential' at that point, also defined relative what motion you observing has relative that point. So you have a space in where every point can be said to have a certain 'time dilation' in itself if you ignore gravity's equivalence to motion, as well as having a added 'time dilation' relative the 'frames of reference' compared. That means your frame relative the 'point' you compare your 'time' too.
'Ether and the Theory of Relativity by Albert Einstein'
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Extras/Einstein_ether.html [nofollow]

"the state of the [ether] is at every place determined by connections with the matter and the state of the ether in neighbouring places, ... disregarding the causes which condition its state."

The state of the aether as determined by its connections with the matter and the state of the aether in neighboring places is the aether's state of displacement. The cause which conditions its state is its displacement by matter.

In terms of the Earth, the center of that displacement is the center of the Earth.

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« Reply #18 on: 06/05/2011 19:20:58 »
That paper is truly interesting :) But he wrote it thinking of QM and the 'hidden energy' as I think of it. Also I presume that he had the same questions as I have on what 'space' really is. After all, it exists :)

The truly fascinating aspects of time dilation, and its relative counterpart Lorentz contraction is what it tells us about motion and gravity, at least to me. It seems possible to see it as something where any point is defined differently than what we perceive normally, with motion becoming a dubious expression, in a strange way equivalent to what we call gravity.

In our world we differ those two, but to 'time' they seems to be treated as one. Now, you can look at it as if they are two different aspects of your 'reality', but I don't. I think they have all too much in common.
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« Reply #19 on: 06/05/2011 19:21:35 »
H&K is entirely explainable using einstein's theories.

What is a frictionless superfluid with the properties of a solid? (superfluids flow, solids don't; I fail to see why this supposed state isn't self-contradictory)

'Superfluid Is Shown To Have Property Of A Solid'
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/07/990730072958.htm [nofollow]

"Northwestern University physicists have for the first time shown that superfluid helium-3 -- the lighter isotope of helium, which is a liquid that has lost all internal friction, allowing it to flow without resistance and ooze through tiny spaces that normal liquids cannot penetrate -- actually behaves like a solid in its ability to conduct sound waves."

'"Faraday's finding was the first indication that light and magnetism were related," says William Halperin, professor of physics and astronomy at Northwestern. "I wouldn't say that our discovery is of that magnitude, but it is significant as the first observation of a previously unknown mode of wave propagation in a liquid -- one that is of the type you would expect to see in a solid."'

Quote
At what orbit from the earth does the earth's passage through the æther become the less dominant feature - ie at what distance is the æther no longer sufficiently disturbed by the earth's passage for differential orbits to distinguished by the effects of the æther alone?

Can you describe an experiment (done or future) that would prove the existence of the æther, or could you describe an experiment (done or future) that would prove the non-existence of the æther?

All 'delayed choice quantum eraser' experiments are explained by understanding conservation of momentum and a moving particle has an associated aether displacement wave.

In the image on the right here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_choice_quantum_eraser#The_experiment [nofollow]
When the downconverted photon creates a photon pair, in order for there to be conservation of momentum, the original photons momentum is conserved. This means the photon pair have opposite polarizations. We will describe one of the photons as being the 'up' photon and the other photon as being the 'down' photon. One of the photons travels either the red or blue path towards D0 and the other photon travels either the red or blue path towards the prism.

There are physical waves in the aether propagating both the red and blue paths. The aether waves propagating towards D0 interact with the lens and create interference prior to reaching D0. The aether waves
create interference which alters the direction the photon travels prior to reaching D0. There are actually two interference patterns being created at D0. One associated with the 'up' photons when they arrive at D0 and the other interference pattern associated with the 'down' photons when they arrive at D0.

Both 'up' and 'down' photons are reflected by BSa and arrive at D3. Since there is a single path towards D3 there is nothing for the wave in the aether to interfere with and there is no interference pattern and since it is not determined if it is an 'up' or 'down' photon being detected at D3 there is no way to distinguish between the photons arriving at D0 which interference pattern each photon belongs to. The same for photons reflected by BSb and arrive at D4.

Photons which pass through BSa and are reflected by BSc and arrive at D1 are either 'up' or 'down' photons but not both. If 'up' photons arrive at D1 then 'down' photons arrive at D2. The opposite occurs for photons which pass through BSb. Photons which pass through BSa and pass through BSb and arrive at D1 are all either 'up' or 'down' photons. If all 'up' photons arrive at D1 then all 'down' photons arrive at D2. Since the physical waves in the aether traveling both the red and blue paths are combined prior to D1 and D2 the aether waves create interference which alters the direction the photon travels. Since all 'up' photons arrive at one of the detectors and all 'down' photons arrive at the other an interference pattern is created which reflects back to the interference both sets of photons are creating at D0.

The following experiment will provide evidence of Aether Displacement:

Instead of having a single beam splitter BSc have two beam splitters BSca and BScb. Have the photons reflected by mirror Ma interact with BSca and have the photons reflected by mirror Mb interact with BScb. Do not combine the red and blue paths. Have additional detectors D1a, D2a, D1b, and D2b. Have the photons reflected by and propagate through BSca be detected at D1a and D2a. Have the photons reflected by and propagate through BScb be detected at D1b and D2b. If you compare the photons detected at D1a and D1b with the photons detected at D0, the corresponding photons detected at D0 will form an interference pattern. If you compare the photons detected at D2a and D2b with the photons detected at D0, the corresponding photons detected at D0 will form an interference pattern. What is occurring is all 'up' photons are being detected at one pair of detectors, for example D1a and D1b, and all 'down' photons are being detected at the other pair of detectors, for example D2a and D2b. Interference patterns do not even need to be created in order to determine the interference patterns created at D0.
« Last Edit: 06/05/2011 19:51:36 by mpc755 »

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« Reply #20 on: 06/05/2011 19:26:38 »
That paper is truly interesting :) But he wrote it thinking of QM and the 'hidden energy' as I think of it. Also I presume that he had the same questions as I have on what 'space' really is. After all, it exists :)

The truly fascinating aspects of time dilation, and its relative counterpart Lorentz contraction is what it tells us about motion and gravity, at least to me. It seems possible to see it as something where any point is defined differently than what we perceive normally, with motion becoming a dubious expression, in a strange way equivalent to what we call gravity.

In our world we differ those two, but to 'time' they seems to be treated as one. Now, you can look at it as if they are two different aspects of your 'reality', but I don't. I think they have all too much in common.

The rate at which an atomic clock ticks is determined by the force of the aether in which it exists.

Force exerted toward matter by aether displaced by matter is gravity.

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« Reply #21 on: 06/05/2011 19:28:09 »
And he used ether differently than you. He did not define it as having a pressure or a friction.

"A direct consequence of Lorentz's conception of the stationary ether is that the velocity of light with respect to the ether is a constant, independent of the motion of the source of light (or its frequency, amplitude, or direction of propagation in the ether, etc.).

Einstein adopted a slightly-but crucially-modified version of this conclusion as his second principle: There is an inertial frame in which the speed of light is a constant, independent of the velocity of its source. A Lorentzian ether theorist could agree at once to this statement, since it was always tacitly assumed that the ether rest frame is an inertial frame of reference and Einstein had "only" substituted "inertial frame" for "ether."

But Einstein's omission of the ether was deliberate and crucial: by the time he formulated SRT he did not believe in its existence. For Einstein a principle was just that: a principle-a starting point for a process of deduction, not a deduction from any (ether) theory. (I am here getting ahead of my story and will return to this point later.) The Lorentzian ether theorist would add that there can only be one inertial frame in which the light principle holds. If the speed of light is a constant in the ether frame, it must be non-constant in every other inertial frame, as follows from the (Newtonian) law of addition of velocities. The light principle hence seems to be incompatible with the relativity principle. For, according to the relativity principle, all the laws of physics must be the same in any inertial frame. So, if the speed of light is constant in one inertial frame, and that frame is not physically singled out by being the rest frame of some medium (the ether), then the speed of light must be the same (universal) constant in every other inertial frame (otherwise the democracy of inertial frames is violated). As Einstein put it in 1905, his two principles are "apparently incompatible." Of course, if they really were incompatible logically or physically, that would be the end of SRT.

Einstein showed that they are not only logically compatible, but compatible with the results of all optical and other experiments performed up to 1905 (and since, we may add). He was able to show their logical compatibility by an analysis of the concepts of time, simultaneity, and length, which demonstrated that the speed of light really could have the privileged status, implied by his two principles, of being a universal speed, the same in every inertial frame of reference."
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« Reply #22 on: 06/05/2011 19:35:16 »
And he used ether differently than you. He did not define it as having a pressure or a friction.

"A direct consequence of Lorentz's conception of the stationary ether is that the velocity of light with respect to the ether is a constant, independent of the motion of the source of light (or its frequency, amplitude, or direction of propagation in the ether, etc.).

Einstein adopted a slightly-but crucially-modified version of this conclusion as his second principle: There is an inertial frame in which the speed of light is a constant, independent of the velocity of its source. A Lorentzian ether theorist could agree at once to this statement, since it was always tacitly assumed that the ether rest frame is an inertial frame of reference and Einstein had "only" substituted "inertial frame" for "ether."

But Einstein's omission of the ether was deliberate and crucial: by the time he formulated SRT he did not believe in its existence. For Einstein a principle was just that: a principle-a starting point for a process of deduction, not a deduction from any (ether) theory. (I am here getting ahead of my story and will return to this point later.) The Lorentzian ether theorist would add that there can only be one inertial frame in which the light principle holds. If the speed of light is a constant in the ether frame, it must be non-constant in every other inertial frame, as follows from the (Newtonian) law of addition of velocities. The light principle hence seems to be incompatible with the relativity principle. For, according to the relativity principle, all the laws of physics must be the same in any inertial frame. So, if the speed of light is constant in one inertial frame, and that frame is not physically singled out by being the rest frame of some medium (the ether), then the speed of light must be the same (universal) constant in every other inertial frame (otherwise the democracy of inertial frames is violated). As Einstein put it in 1905, his two principles are "apparently incompatible." Of course, if they really were incompatible logically or physically, that would be the end of SRT.

Einstein showed that they are not only logically compatible, but compatible with the results of all optical and other experiments performed up to 1905 (and since, we may add). He was able to show their logical compatibility by an analysis of the concepts of time, simultaneity, and length, which demonstrated that the speed of light really could have the privileged status, implied by his two principles, of being a universal speed, the same in every inertial frame of reference."

The aether is, or behaves similar to, a frictionless superfluid with properties of a solid.

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« Reply #23 on: 06/05/2011 20:02:45 »
So the aether should be a frictionless 'superfluid' exerting a 'pressure'?
But not on light then? As we nowhere find light to travel other than at 'c' in a vacuum, not caring about its direction relative the experiment . But still able to 'pressure' time, via gravity that then is? what? The force of the 'aether' pressuring on 'matter'?

I'm getting a headache here :)
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« Reply #24 on: 06/05/2011 21:36:29 »
So the aether should be a frictionless 'superfluid' exerting a 'pressure'?

Correct!

OK. Now to explain the details. Let's start with an analogy. You are bowling. You are bowling in a bowling alley full of a frictionless superfluid. You bowl the ball towards the pins. The pins are light years away. As the bowling ball moves towards the pins the bowling ball displaces the frictionless superfluid. Is there an empty void behind where the bowling ball was? No, the frictionless superfluid fills-in where the bowling ball had been. The frictionless superfluid exerts force towards the bowling ball. However, since the interaction of the bowling ball and the frictionless superfluid is frictionless the bowling ball never slows down. Whatever energy the bowling ball uses to displace the frictionless superfluid the frictionless superfluid exerts towards the bowling ball as the frictionless superfluid 'displaces back'. There is no loss of energy in the interaction of the bowling ball and the frictionless superfluid.

Quote
But not on light then? As we nowhere find light to travel other than at 'c' in a vacuum, not caring about its direction relative the experiment .

Everything is with respect to the state of the aether. Including the rate at which the clocks tick which are used to determine the speed of light.

Quote
But still able to 'pressure' time, via gravity that then is? what?

Not pressure 'time'. Determine the rate at which an atomic clock ticks. The rate at which an atomic clock ticks has nothing to do with time. Another analogy. You own a battery operated clock. The clock begins to tick slower. Has time changed or do you replace the batteries? You replace the batteries because you understand what occurs physically in nature to cause the battery operated clock to tick at a different rate.

Quote
The force of the 'aether' pressuring on 'matter'?

Correct. Aether has mass. Aether physically occupies three dimensional space. Aether is physically displaced by matter. Aether displaced by matter exerts force towards the matter.

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I'm getting a headache here :)


There's more...
« Last Edit: 06/05/2011 22:32:16 by mpc755 »

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« Reply #25 on: 07/05/2011 01:26:01 »

But we already have space? Which to us is empty macroscopically. Quite satisfactory so too if I may add. What you're doing is creating/defining a 'substance' that we can't detect, and expecting it to be 'space', as you define it as matter 'pushes' on it.

Why?

Space is already here. We can in a way 'measure it' by matters boundaries, and it works without friction or pressure. The ideas of friction and pressure is made from some sort of definition of a 'null state'. We have our in space. In QM you might discuss Casimir forces and quantum foam, but then we're no longer on the plane we exist and observe macroscopically. You have to see where we are, to imagine our world as a quantum phenomena may be entirely possible, but not 'real'. What is 'real is where we exist, and live daily.

That we might be outcomes of 'probability' doesn't mean that we are doubtful in any way. Everything we do and everything we define comes from us being here, for 'real' :) So an unmeasurable aether consisting of pressure without friction :) ?

Show me one possible experiment to prove that idea.
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« Reply #26 on: 07/05/2011 02:09:41 »

But we already have space? Which to us is empty macroscopically. Quite satisfactory so too if I may add. What you're doing is creating/defining a 'substance' that we can't detect, and expecting it to be 'space', as you define it as matter 'pushes' on it.

We do detect the aether.

What is presently postulated as dark matter is aether. Matter does not travel with dark matter. Matter moves through the aether.

'Offset between dark matter and ordinary matter: evidence from a sample of 38 lensing clusters of galaxies'
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2966.2010.16739.x/abstract [nofollow]

"We compile a sample of 38 galaxy clusters which have both X-ray and strong lensing observations, and study for each cluster the projected offset between the dominant component of baryonic matter centre (measured by X-rays) and the gravitational centre (measured by strong lensing). Among the total sample, 45 per cent clusters have offsets >10 arcsec. The >10 arcsec separations are significant, considering the arcsecond precision in the measurement of the lensing/X-ray centres. This suggests that it might be a common phenomenon in unrelaxed galaxy clusters that gravitational field is separated spatially from the dominant component of baryonic matter. It also has consequences for lensing models of unrelaxed clusters since the gas mass distribution may differ from the dark matter distribution and give perturbations to the modelling. Such offsets can be used as a statistical tool for comparison with the results of Lambda cold dark matter ( CDM) simulations and to test the modified dynamics."

The offset is due to the galaxy clusters moving through the aether.

The analogy is a submarine moving through the ocean. You are underwater in the ocean. Two miles away from you also under water are many lights. A submarine moves equi-distant between you and the distant lights. As the submarine moves through the water the submarine displaces the water. There will be an offset between where the submarine is and where the 'gravitational center' is determined to be by the light which travels through the water displaced by the moving submarine.

'Hubble Finds Ghostly Ring of Dark Matter
'http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/news/dark_matter_ring_feature.html [nofollow]

"Astronomers using NASA's Hubble Space Telescope got a first-hand view of how dark matter behaves during a titanic collision between two galaxy clusters. The wreck created a ripple of dark mater, which is somewhat similar to a ripple formed in a pond when a rock hits the water."

The 'pond' consists of aether. The moving 'particles' are the galaxy clusters. The 'ripple' is a gravitational wave. The 'ripple' is an aether displacement wave.

Quote
Why?

Do you want to understand what occurs physically in nature to cause gravity or don't you?

Do you want to understand what occurs physically in nature in a double slit experiment or don't you?

Quote
Space is already here. We can in a way 'measure it' by matters boundaries, and it works without friction or pressure. The ideas of friction and pressure is made from some sort of definition of a 'null state'. We have our in space. In QM you might discuss Casimir forces and quantum foam, but then we're no longer on the plane we exist and observe macroscopically. You have to see where we are, to imagine our world as a quantum phenomena may be entirely possible, but not 'real'. What is 'real is where we exist, and live daily.

What is real is aether, and it has mass.

Quote
That we might be outcomes of 'probability' doesn't mean that we are doubtful in any way. Everything we do and everything we define comes from us being here, for 'real' :) So an unmeasurable aether consisting of pressure without friction :) ?

Show me one possible experiment to prove that idea.

The examples above are evidence aether exists and has mass.

The following is an experiment which will provide evidence of aether displacement on the quantum scale.

All 'delayed choice quantum eraser' experiments are explained by understanding conservation of momentum and a moving particle has an associated aether displacement wave.

In the image on the right here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_choice_quantum_eraser#The_experiment [nofollow]
When the downconverted photon creates a photon pair, in order for there to be conservation of momentum, the original photons momentum is conserved. This means the photon pair have opposite polarizations. We will describe one of the photons as being the 'up' photon and the other photon as being the 'down' photon. One of the photons travels either the red or blue path towards D0 and the other photon travels either the red or blue path towards the prism.

There are physical waves in the aether propagating both the red and blue paths. The aether waves propagating towards D0 interact with the lens and create interference prior to reaching D0. The aether waves
create interference which alters the direction the photon travels prior to reaching D0. There are actually two interference patterns being created at D0. One associated with the 'up' photons when they arrive at D0 and the other interference pattern associated with the 'down' photons when they arrive at D0.

Both 'up' and 'down' photons are reflected by BSa and arrive at D3. Since there is a single path towards D3 there is nothing for the wave in the aether to interfere with and there is no interference pattern and since it is not determined if it is an 'up' or 'down' photon being detected at D3 there is no way to distinguish between the photons arriving at D0 which interference pattern each photon belongs to. The same for photons reflected by BSb and arrive at D4.

Photons which pass through BSa and are reflected by BSc and arrive at D1 are either 'up' or 'down' photons but not both. If 'up' photons arrive at D1 then 'down' photons arrive at D2. The opposite occurs for photons which pass through BSb. Photons which pass through BSa and pass through BSb and arrive at D1 are all either 'up' or 'down' photons. If all 'up' photons arrive at D1 then all 'down' photons arrive at D2. Since the physical waves in the aether traveling both the red and blue paths are combined prior to D1 and D2 the aether waves create interference which alters the direction the photon travels. Since all 'up' photons arrive at one of the detectors and all 'down' photons arrive at the other an interference pattern is created which reflects back to the interference both sets of photons are creating at D0.

The following experiment will provide evidence of Aether Displacement:

Instead of having a single beam splitter BSc have two beam splitters BSca and BScb. Have the photons reflected by mirror Ma interact with BSca and have the photons reflected by mirror Mb interact with BScb. Do not combine the red and blue paths. Have additional detectors D1a, D2a, D1b, and D2b. Have the photons reflected by and propagate through BSca be detected at D1a and D2a. Have the photons reflected by and propagate through BScb be detected at D1b and D2b. If you compare the photons detected at D1a and D1b with the photons detected at D0, the corresponding photons detected at D0 will form an interference pattern. If you compare the photons detected at D2a and D2b with the photons detected at D0, the corresponding photons detected at D0 will form an interference pattern. What is occurring is all 'up' photons are being detected at one pair of detectors, for example D1a and D1b, and all 'down' photons are being detected at the other pair of detectors, for example D2a and D2b. Interference patterns do not even need to be created in order to determine the interference patterns created at D0.
« Last Edit: 07/05/2011 02:20:30 by mpc755 »

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« Reply #27 on: 07/05/2011 04:07:17 »
Could you show me a schematic of that last experiment? with clear simple notations.

As for a aether I'm still wondering why you feel you need it. Space is already here, when it comes to any sort of analogy with super fluids made out of matter, even with bosonic properties when super cooled. Then this is true, you will need energy to keep them in the state of a 'super fluid', that means that it cost energy to create and maintain such a state. I assume your aether is not costing the universe anything? Somewhat like 'space' right?

Well, then there is a difference. Space is where nothing exist, a emptiness free of mass to be filled by matter. Your aether on the other hand is presumed to be 'something', is it not? As for the pdf? Where do it state that it expect an aether to explain their conclusions?

That QM and the Casimir effect describes something different? Well, they describe entanglements too, seen any superimposed chairs lately? Or entangled? It's two different reality's, it really is. That one goes into the other and begets new properties is called 'emergences' in chaos theory and is the closest I can come to why they are connected (as water into ice). But they are not 'the same', and macroscopically you do not see those quantum effects. And 'dark matter' is still only a theory as far as I know? Myself I rather believe in dark energy. As for light 'propagating' in space your aether seems very strange. Does it agree with Einstein there? If so, why?

But I can see that you're convinced of your idea yourself. So show me that schematic of the experiment you expect to prove it.
==

And there are more incongruity's  to it. A pressure do not join particles, not if it is evenly dispersed on the objects, gravity attracts. Thinking of it in 3D you have a analogue in the marble and the rubber mat where the mat bends to the invariant mass of the marble, and so creates a 'hole' in space, in where other thingies also can fall (be attracted to). In your system I fail to see how this would work? Also I'm not pleased with the concept of gravity being a pressure. It's nowhere to be seen in practice.
==

And making one more thing clear, I asked you if light would act the same as in Einsteins universe earlier. Einstein found the first proof of his theory, in measuring the angle at which light bent around the sun, if I remember rightly? Why does light do so in your ideas? In Einsteins it is gravity doing it, but in yours?
« Last Edit: 07/05/2011 05:04:22 by yor_on »
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« Reply #28 on: 07/05/2011 05:56:37 »
Could you show me a schematic of that last experiment? with clear simple notations.
No.

Quote
As for a aether I'm still wondering why you feel you need it.
Explain what occurs physically in nature to cause gravity.
Explain what occurs physically in nature in a double slit experiment.

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In Einsteins it is gravity doing it, but in yours?
Displaced aether.
« Last Edit: 07/05/2011 05:58:13 by mpc755 »

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« Reply #29 on: 07/05/2011 07:26:08 »
I agree with you on one thing, there is indiscernible light waves explaining quantum entanglement because they travel in space and not in time. They propagate instantaneously. Their reach is still limited by the speed of light though. It is not aether but space itself. Why do you think gravity bend spacetime and light path?  [:0]

What we see from gravitational lensing seems to be particles of Dark Matter with zero apparent electric charge... You must take in account, the fact that the Dark Matter and the gas cloud occupy a very large space, gravity is thus very small compare to the electromagnetic force during the collision. Einstein's spacetime replaces aether in Relativity: constant speed of light for any observer...

Time is local and it is associated to energy quanta posessing a mass (or inertia)...

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/25689
« Last Edit: 07/05/2011 07:58:45 by CPT ArkAngel »

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« Reply #30 on: 07/05/2011 08:14:50 »
Here you have the Relativistic aberration of light. Can you show me how your 'displaced aether' do the same?

Perhaps you should read The Theory of Relativity by Pickering, W. H. too as he describes it in a little more detail. I think you will find it most satisfactorily for your understanding of my opinion.

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« Reply #31 on: 07/05/2011 10:18:52 »
CPT that article was from 2006. Not all agree, here you can read a rebuttal "But the Bullet Cluster" - Proof of Cold or Warm Dark Matter in galaxy clusters is but a myth.
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« Reply #32 on: 07/05/2011 10:49:22 »
You never addressed the fact that H&K is entirely explained by einstein's theories

Interesting side note on superfluids - thanks.  Still unsure how this anomalous single property of superfluids affects your ideas but..

Your explanation of spontaneous parametric down conversion is quite incorrect in dealing with polarisations and momentum conservation - but the experiment as described works because the photons are entangled which is the important bit.   You would be better off describing one photon path as the red path and the other as the blue just as wikipedia did.     

Your changes to the dcqe are unusual and ineffective.  Firstly, it's a bit of a poor show when yoron, who has be very generous in his engagement with this subject gets a blank "no" in response to his request for a schematic.  Secondly, the set of beam splitters after mirror a and mirror b are totally superfluous.  Thirdly, the interference will disappear - it does not matter how many spurious beam splitters, mirrors, and detectors in the way your experiment will just duplicate detectors D3 and D4 which receive only one pathway of light.  If a photon is detected at D3 or your new D1a or D1b - the slit will be determined and no interference will be seen.  Unless I have misunderstood your variation - which is where a schematic would have helped - you are merely replacing a single D3 with a triplet of D3 D1a and D1b and replacing D4 with D4 D2a and D2b; this branching of paths with no interaction or recombination with the other possible path removes all interest and reverts the experiment to a situation well known and well understood before dcqe experiment.

Quote
Explain what occurs physically in nature to cause gravity.
Explain what occurs physically in nature in a double slit experiment.

The first is a noble cause - and if you are seeking a proximal cause then look at general relativity - it's one of the most accurate and highly tested physical theories in the history of science.  Funnily enough the explanation of the double slit experiment and quantum mechanics in general is the other most accurate and highly test physical theory in the history of science.

So far in this thread all you have offered is assertions that experiments and observations with accepted explanations and theories are, in fact, explained by the existence of your aether.  by occam's razor we don't need your aether - we can explain the action of gravity and the double slit experiment; although perhaps not the underlying reasons for the way the universe behaves in this manner.   if gravitational attraction is caused by the curvature of space time by mass/energy then what can your aether add - and if you claim this is not the case then you need to provide quantification of how to calculate the orbit of a body around a much more massive body that does not rely on einstein
« Last Edit: 07/05/2011 12:31:58 by imatfaal »
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« Reply #33 on: 07/05/2011 11:02:57 »
CPT that article was from 2006. Not all agree, here you can read a rebuttal "But the Bullet Cluster" - Proof of Cold or Warm Dark Matter in galaxy clusters is but a myth.

Interesting blog - but a little one-sided I think, whilst correct to state that the bullet cluster is not (and could never be) proof positive.  The original article was one a shamefully long line of over-hyped articles from Nasa and does need a critical approach.

It is a little disingenuous to talk about explaining the BC via Modified Newtonian Dynamics - the whole reason that dark matter had to be postulated was that no system could be found that would explain different scale gravitational effects all at the same time.  if we choose different sets of laws and constants for different situations we can explain anything!
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« Reply #34 on: 07/05/2011 11:22:07 »
Take a look here for more articles about dark matter. Links to related Nature papers dealing with issues relevant to the Dark Matter Problem. not that it seems necessary for an aether?

And yes Imatfaal, but isn't that just what the bullet proof did too, cited theory for proving a 'fact'.
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« Reply #35 on: 07/05/2011 11:26:41 »
I am not impress by that rebuttal. I don't see any good arguments. It is true, it is not an absolute proof of the existence of cold dark matter, but it really looks like it. It would have been very surprising that the LCDM model were right, simply because they just don't know how Dark Matter is created, what is the sizes and mass of DM particles and does it interact with the weak force. There is more Dark Mass than matter mass in the Universe. It sounds obvious that if the accepted laws of gravity were so wrong, we would have already seen the proof of it elsewhere. And people should understand that the LHC produces only high energy collisions by the accelerations of charged particles having a very long life (protons and electrons) in a low density medium, which is a strong limitation to the type of particles that it can generate.

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« Reply #36 on: 07/05/2011 12:01:15 »
I agree with you on one thing, there is indiscernible light waves explaining quantum entanglement because they travel in space and not in time. They propagate instantaneously. Their reach is still limited by the speed of light though. It is not aether but space itself. Why do you think gravity bend spacetime and light path?  [:0]

Aether has mass. Aether physically occupies three dimensional space. Aether is physically displaced by matter. Force exerted towards matter by aether displaced by matter IS gravity. Light paths bend because they move through the displaced aether.

The rate at which an atomic clock ticks is determined by the force of the aether in which it exists.

Bent spacetime is displaced aether.

Quote
What we see from gravitational lensing seems to be particles of Dark Matter with zero apparent electric charge... You must take in account, the fact that the Dark Matter and the gas cloud occupy a very large space, gravity is thus very small compare to the electromagnetic force during the collision. Einstein's spacetime replaces aether in Relativity: constant speed of light for any observer...

What is presently postulated as dark matter is aether. There is no such thing as matter traveling with dark matter. Matter moves through the aether.

'Offset between dark matter and ordinary matter: evidence from a sample of 38 lensing clusters of galaxies'
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2966.2010.16739.x/abstract [nofollow]

"We compile a sample of 38 galaxy clusters which have both X-ray and strong lensing observations, and study for each cluster the projected offset between the dominant component of baryonic matter centre (measured by X-rays) and the gravitational centre (measured by strong lensing). Among the total sample, 45 per cent clusters have offsets >10 arcsec. The >10 arcsec separations are significant, considering the arcsecond precision in the measurement of the lensing/X-ray centres. This suggests that it might be a common phenomenon in unrelaxed galaxy clusters that gravitational field is separated spatially from the dominant component of baryonic matter. It also has consequences for lensing models of unrelaxed clusters since the gas mass distribution may differ from the dark matter distribution and give perturbations to the modelling. Such offsets can be used as a statistical tool for comparison with the results of Lambda cold dark matter ( CDM) simulations and to test the modified dynamics."

The offset is due to the galaxy clusters moving through the aether.

The analogy is a submarine moving through the ocean. You are underwater in the ocean. Two miles away from you also under water are many lights. A submarine moves equi-distant between you and the distant lights. As the submarine moves through the water the submarine displaces the water. There will be an offset between where the submarine is and where the 'gravitational center' is determined to be by the light which travels through the water displaced by the moving submarine.

Quote
Time is local and it is associated to energy quanta posessing a mass (or inertia)...

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/25689 [nofollow]

The rate at which a clock ticks has nothing to do with time. The ticks of a clock are a physical process. If you own a battery operated clock and the clock begins to tick slower has time changed or do you replace the batteries? You replace the batteries because you understand what occurred physically in nature to cause the battery operated clock to slow down.

The rate at which an atomic clock ticks is determined by the force of the aether in which it exits. Just as time did not change because the battery operated clock began to tick at a different rate, neither does time change because an atomic clock begins to tick at a different rate.
« Last Edit: 07/05/2011 13:09:59 by mpc755 »

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« Reply #37 on: 07/05/2011 12:09:46 »
Here you have the Relativistic aberration of light. [nofollow] Can you show me how your 'displaced aether' do the same?

The aether is displaced far past the moon. Think of placing a bowling ball into a tank of frictionless superfluid and spinning the bowling ball as you move the bowling ball through the tank of frictionless superfluid. Even though the bowling ball is spinning and being moved through the tank the state of the displaced frictionless superfluid will be almost the same throughout its rotation and almost the same all around the bowling ball as you move it through the tank.

When you get to something as large as the Earth and the amount of aether it displaces it is difficult to detect a change in the state of the aether as the Earth rotates and orbits the Sun.

Quote
Perhaps you should read The Theory of Relativity by Pickering, W. H. [nofollow] too as he describes it in a little more detail. I think you will find it most satisfactorily for your understanding of my opinion.

I'll check it out.
« Last Edit: 07/05/2011 13:11:20 by mpc755 »

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« Reply #38 on: 07/05/2011 12:51:19 »
You never addressed the fact that H&K is entirely explained by einstein's theories

I agree with most of SR and GR. What I am doing is explaining what occurs physically in nature to cause the clocks in the H&K to tick at different rates. Now, you might say it is because of gravity. What I am doing is explaining what occurs physically in nature to cause gravity. As part of this explanation is an explanation of what occurs physically in nature to cause atomic clocks to tick at the rate they do.

Aether has mass. Aether physically occupies three dimensional space. Aether is physically displaced by matter. Force exerted towards matter by aether displaced by matter IS gravity. The rate at which an atomic clock ticks is determined by the force of the aether in which it exists.

Quote
Interesting side note on superfluids - thanks.  Still unsure how this anomalous single property of superfluids affects your ideas but..

It allows for the propagation of transverse waves. As far as I know, the ether of Lorentz and the ether looked for in the Michelson Morley experiment is an ether which is not mobile in order to support transverse light waves. It is an ether at rest which the Earth moves through. This is an incorrect description of the aether. Aether is physically displaced by matter.

Quote
Your explanation of spontaneous parametric down conversion is quite incorrect in dealing with polarisations and momentum conservation - but the experiment as described works because the photons are entangled which is the important bit.   You would be better off describing one photon path as the red path and the other as the blue just as wikipedia did.

Photons are not entangled. I do describe one photon 'particle' path as the red path and the other photon 'particle' path as the blue path. In aether displacement, there is an associated physical aether wave traveling both the red and blue paths with its associated photon 'particle'. In aether displacement, a moving physical particle has an associated physical wave. de Broglie's wave mechanics correctly defines wave-particle duality where a moving physical particle has an associated physical wave. In aether displacement, the associated physical wave is an aether wave.

In the experiment described, the photon 'particle' travels a single path and the associated aether wave travels the available paths. When the paths are combined the aether wave creates wave interference which alters the direction the particle travels.

Quote
Your changes to the dcqe are unusual and ineffective.  Firstly, it's a bit of a poor show when yoron, who has be very generous in his engagement with this subject gets a black "no" in response to his request for a schematic.

The other poster continues to reply with "I don't see why you need an aether" when the whole point of this thread is aether displacement explains what occurs physically in nature to cause gravity and what occurs physically in nature to cause the observed behaviors in a double slit experiment. It's one thing to disagree with the concept and notions of aether displacement. However, it is quite another to exchange in multiple posts with someone who continually says, "I don't see why you need an aether" when what I am saying is:

* Force exerted towards matter by aether displaced by matter IS gravity.
* A moving physical particle has an associated physical wave. In a double slit experiment, the particle travels a single path and enters and exits a single slit. It is the associated aether wave which enters and exits both slits. The associated aether wave enters and exits both slits and creates wave interference upon exiting the slits. As the particle exists a single slit, the direction it travels is altered by this interference. Detecting the particle causes there to be a loss of coherence of the associated aether wave, there is no wave interference, and the direction the particle travels is not altered.

Now, obviously, you do not have to agree with this correct understanding of what occurs physically in nature. However, after several iterations of this if your response is, "I still don't see why you need an aether" then I think my short response was appropriate.

Quote
Secondly, the set of beam splitters after mirror a and mirror b are totally superfluous.  Thirdly, the interference will disappear - it does not matter how many spurious beam splitters, mirrors, and detectors in the way your experiment will just duplicate detectors D3 and D4 which receive only one pathway of light.  If a photon is detected at D3 or your new D1a or D1b - the slit will be determined and no interference will be seen.  Unless I have misunderstood your variation - which is where a schematic would have helped - you are merely replacing a single D3 with a triplet of D3 D1a and D1b and replacing D4 with D4 D2a and D2b; this branching of paths with no interaction or recombination with the other possible path removes all interest and reverts the experiment to a situation well known and well understood before dcqe experiment.

What you are failing to realize is the detection of the photons are D1a, D1b, D2a, and D2b can be correlated back to the two interference patterns which are being created at D0. The interference patterns are occurring at D0 regardless of what else occurs. What the detection at the other detectors allows for is discerning the two interference patterns from each other at D0.

Quote
Quote
Explain what occurs physically in nature to cause gravity.
Explain what occurs physically in nature in a double slit experiment.

The first is a noble cause - and if you are seeking a proximal cause then look at general relativity - it's one of the most accurate and highly tested physical theories in the history of science.  Funnily enough the explanation of the double slit experiment and quantum mechanics in general is the other most accurate and highly test physical theory in the history of science.

General relativity does not explain what occurs physically in nature to cause gravity. General relativity discusses curved spacetime. Curved spacetime physically exists in nature as displaced aether.

Quantum mechanics does not explain what occurs physically in nature in a double slit experiment. Aether displacement does.

Quote
So far in this thread all you have offered is assertions that experiments and observations with accepted explanations and theories are, in fact, explained by the existence of your aether.  by occam's razor we don't need your aether - we can explain the action of gravity and the double slit experiment; although perhaps not the underlying reasons for the way the universe behaves in this manner.

Aether displacement is the underlying reason why the universe behaves in this manner.
« Last Edit: 07/05/2011 13:47:35 by mpc755 »

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« Reply #39 on: 07/05/2011 12:59:58 »
CPT that article was from 2006. Not all agree, here you can read a rebuttal "But the Bullet Cluster" - Proof of Cold or Warm Dark Matter in galaxy clusters is but a myth. [nofollow]

Interesting blog - but a little one-sided I think, whilst correct to state that the bullet cluster is not (and could never be) proof positive.  The original article was one a shamefully long line of over-hyped articles from Nasa and does need a critical approach.

It is a little disingenuous to talk about explaining the BC via Modified Newtonian Dynamics - the whole reason that dark matter had to be postulated was that no system could be found that would explain different scale gravitational effects all at the same time.  if we choose different sets of laws and constants for different situations we can explain anything!

Where dark matter falls short is not understanding what is postulated as dark matter is aether. Aether has mass. It is not simply this additional mass which makes the calculations correct. It is the force exerted by the displaced aether towards the matter which IS gravity.

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« Reply #40 on: 07/05/2011 13:04:52 »
Take a look here for more articles about dark matter. Links to related Nature papers dealing with issues relevant to the Dark Matter Problem. [nofollow] not that it seems necessary for an aether?

And yes Imatfaal, but isn't that just what the bullet proof did too, cited theory for proving a 'fact'.

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008Natur.455.1082D [nofollow]

"This implies that the structure of these galaxies must be controlled by a single parameter"

Displaced aether.

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« Reply #41 on: 07/05/2011 13:06:43 »
I am not impress by that rebuttal. I don't see any good arguments. It is true, it is not an absolute proof of the existence of cold dark matter, but it really looks like it. It would have been very surprising that the LCDM model were right, simply because they just don't know how Dark Matter is created, what is the sizes and mass of DM particles and does it interact with the weak force. There is more Dark Mass than matter mass in the Universe. It sounds obvious that if the accepted laws of gravity were so wrong, we would have already seen the proof of it elsewhere. And people should understand that the LHC produces only high energy collisions by the accelerations of charged particles having a very long life (protons and electrons) in a low density medium, which is a strong limitation to the type of particles that it can generate.

What is presently postulated as dark matter is aether. Aether has mass. In my opinion, it can not be known if aether consists of particles or not.

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« Reply #42 on: 07/05/2011 19:15:10 »
Ah well :)

Now, I can see we will have different opinions here. I think you will need a little math to prove your points, but, that's up to you. In the mean time :)

Have fun guys.
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« Reply #43 on: 07/05/2011 19:29:19 »
Ah well :)

Now, I can see we will have different opinions here. I think you will need a little math to prove your points, but, that's up to you. In the mean time :)

Have fun guys.

Thanks for the correspondence.

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« Reply #44 on: 07/05/2011 20:27:05 »
While we appreciate your enthusiasm about your theory, mpc775, I suggest you reread the acceptable usage policy, which you agreed to when joining the forum, located here.

Of particular interest might be the section:
Quote
It is not acceptable simply to repost material onto this forum that you have posted elsewhere, except where the post is specifically pertinent to an ongoing thread.  If you start a thread with a post that is for all practical purposes the same as you have posted elsewhere, we will generally assume that you are evangelising, and will act accordingly.

And then compare these two posts:
http://www.physicsdiscussionforum.org/aether-displacement-t75.html
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=38578.msg351706#msg351706

I'm locking this thread for violation of site policy.  Future violations will result in a ban.