[ukmicky (OP)]

Controversial [].

Ladies does your man give you orgasms during penetrative sex , think about it if he can't then is he really good enough for you.[]

Did you know that if your man isn't good enough to provide you with an orgasm during sex he is less likely to get you  pregnant than a man who can. [] i know its sad isnt it [].

Through evolution women have been given a mechanism to aid her getting pregnant and naturally only the best men would be good enough and sexual enough to trigger that mechanism.

The act of orgasm in a female creates a negative pressure inside  her drawing sperm deep inside making it more likely that the man who can will be the one to fertilize her eggs, call it a safety device if you like preventing men who are less desirable and not quite good enough from being the fathers of your children[}:)][][][][].

So if he aint good enough to to use the mechanism nature has given you to aid pregnancy  is he really good enuf for you. I would suggest mother nature would say no if you go by her preference for only the best males to impregnate the females.

please note. Mother nature is female so she must be right[]

So if your man aint doing it then he shouldnt be doing it.

PS George stay out of this unless your on my side or want a black eye[]



Michael

[neilep]

Michael,

This thread will most probably reach 'most read ' status very quickly ! []

Men are the same as women, just inside out !

[another_someone]

Never one to ignore a challenge.

One could well argue that the ideal biological father is a very different person from an ideal husband and ideal parent.

Maybe the logical extension to argument would be to suggest that the guy who should get a woman pregnant should only be a one night stand, and her husband should be someone else entirely.

We do know that far more children are not the natural children of the person who is named on their birth certificate as the father than people would like to admit – maybe this is nature at work.

Oh, while we are talking about the probability of a woman getting pregnant, there is statistical evidence that rape victims have a higher probability of getting pregnant than would normally be the case for women having consensual intercourse.  How you wish to interpret that in the context of your argument is up to you.

George

[Carolyn]

quote:Originally posted by ukmicky

Controversial [].

Through evolution women have been given a mechanism to aid her getting pregnant and naturally only the best men would be good enough and sexual enough to trigger that mechanism.

The act of orgasm in a female creates a negative pressure inside  her drawing sperm deep inside making it more likely that the man who can will be the one to fertilize her eggs, call it a safety device if you like preventing men who are less desirable and not quite good enough genetically wise from being the fathers of your children[}:)][][][][].

I would say the best safety device is this:  LADIES, DO NOT HAVE SEX WITH UGLY, UNDESIRABLE MEN THAT CAN'T COMPLETE THE TASK AT HAND.[][][][] That's always worked for me.[}:)]

Carolyn

[ukmicky (OP)]

quote:never one to ignore a challenge.

That is something which i must say i have noticed[]

 

quote:This thread will most probably reach 'most read ' status very quickly !

 Neil I hope so, anything i can do to help with the future survival of our species and i'm your man. Well not your man but you get what i mean.[]

Just dont forget yeah,  I'm here,i'm here for you mate, dont forget that ,any questions ,any advice, then please don't hesitate to ask.
[]

ukmicky specializing in  

Sex therapy, psycho therapy, any therapy, agony uncle.

PS hey i should have a agony uncle forum , good idea or what. we could call it ask michael YEY!

[neilep]

quote:Originally posted by another_someone

Never one to ignore a challenge.

One could well argue that the ideal biological father is a very different person from an ideal husband and ideal parent.

Maybe the logical extension to argument would be to suggest that the guy who should get a woman pregnant should only be a one night stand, and her husband should be someone else entirely.

We do know that far more children are not the natural children of the person who is named on their birth certificate as the father than people would like to admit – maybe this is nature at work.

Oh, while we are talking about the probability of a woman getting pregnant, there is statistical evidence that rape victims have a higher probability of getting pregnant than would normally be the case for women having consensual intercourse.  How you wish to interpret that in the context of your argument is up to you.

George

Really ?  I'd like to see that statistical evidence !...I don't doubt you but would like to see the data.


Should a woman's premise for life nowadays and for procreation be dependent on whether a man can make her cum whilst he's inside her ?

There are many and varied ways for women to achieve a climax and girlies do not have to have an orgasm to become preggy.


George, when you say "We do know that far more children are not the natural children of the person who is named on their birth certificate " is it because that it is just some statistic that has recently come to light ? or do you think this has always been the case. I suspect the latter, if the statistic is new news.

*Generalisation Mode*

 Men are roamers, it's as simple as that. With girlies being the ones who are still the majority gender that stay at home , either as a housewife or additionally as a mother, it is the men who have more opportunity to wander...

..however, your point could be valid when one takes into consideration the increasing number of working women too.

Men are the same as women, just inside out !

[neilep]

quote:Originally posted by ukmicky

quote:never one to ignore a challenge.

That is something which i must say i have noticed[]

 

quote:This thread will most probably reach 'most read ' status very quickly !

 Neil I hope so, anything i can do to help with the future survival of our species and i'm your man. Well not your man but you get what i mean.[]

Just dont forget yeah,  I'm here,i'm here for you mate, dont forget that ,any questions ,any advice, then please don't hesitate to ask.
[]

ukmicky specializing in  

Sex therapy, psycho therapy, any therapy, agony uncle.
PS hey i should have a agony uncle forum , good idea or what. we could call it ask michael YEY!

Dear Agony Uncle Michael,

Wifey screams so loud during intercourse that I don't know what to do to quiet her down. We are now banned from our local library.

Please help.

[]

Men are the same as women, just inside out !

[Carolyn]

quote:Originally posted by neilep
[Dear Agony Uncle Michael,

Wifey screams so loud during intercourse that I don't know what to do to quiet her down. We are now banned from our local library.

Please help.

[]

Men are the same as women, just inside out !

[:0]shocking!

[JimBob]

Carolyn,

What would you expect from a man placated by pizza?


The mind is like a parachute. It works best when open.  -- A. Einstein

[another_someone]

quote:Originally posted by neilep

Really ?  I'd like to see that statistical evidence !...I don't doubt you but would like to see the data.

Have not been able to find anything at present.  My recollection was of two studies, one done in France (and I can well imagine their might be subtle differences in cultures between countries, albeit the underlying imperative would probably be the same), and the other done regarding the tracing to surnames through history.  Since I cannot find any of these at present, I will accept that some doubt must always remain as to whether I have misremembered something.

quote:

Should a woman's premise for life nowadays and for procreation be dependent on whether a man can make her cum whilst he's inside her ?

There are many and varied ways for women to achieve a climax and girlies do not have to have an orgasm to become preggy.

Indeed – life is more complex than that – I was merely responding to Michael in that.

Sex really has performed two separate roles, that of social grooming and that of impregnation.  The imperatives for the two are not the same.

Clearly, the social grooming is about the couple trying to keep each other interested in the relationship, and has nothing whatsoever to do with pregnancy, although it does have to do with social paternity (i.e. the woman keeping the man interested enough in her offspring, whoever the genetic father might be, that he will continue to provide for those children).  This latter point might be regarded as less relevant for career women than it might have once been, although even most working mothers still earn far less than their husbands.

quote:
George, when you say "We do know that far more children are not the natural children of the person who is named on their birth certificate " is it because that it is just some statistic that has recently come to light ? or do you think this has always been the case. I suspect the latter, if the statistic is new news.

I think it has always been the case, and it may well have been even more so in the past than it is today.  It is also not something unique to humans, it has been found that in many other species where the female is nominally bonded to a male, a certain proportion of offspring will be born as a consequence of opportunistic mating with a male other than the male the female is nominally bonded with.

quote:

*Generalisation Mode*

 Men are roamers, it's as simple as that. With girlies being the ones who are still the majority gender that stay at home , either as a housewife or additionally as a mother, it is the men who have more opportunity to wander...

..however, your point could be valid when one takes into consideration the increasing number of working women too.

I think that is a simplification.  True that men tend to geographically roam more than women, but that does not mean that women do not get the opportunity to take lovers (especially while there menfolk are geographically roaming).  Both parties have always had ample opportunities (maybe less so in Muslim countries, where women are more constrained), even if the manner in which those opportunities arise might be different.

George

[ukmicky (OP)]

HMMM This could be a hard one.

,

 

quote:
"Wifey screams so loud during intercourse that I don't know what to do to quiet her down. We are now banned from our local library.
."

Confucius Says Man who knows how to control a wife is called a bachelor.

Michael

[neilep]

quote:Originally posted by another_someone


Should a woman's premise for life nowadays and for procreation be dependent on whether a man can make her cum whilst he's inside her ?

There are many and varied ways for women to achieve a climax and girlies do not have to have an orgasm to become preggy.

quote:Indeed – life is more complex than that – I was merely responding to Michael in that.

....and I was not disputing your statement

quote:*Generalisation Mode*

 Men are roamers, it's as simple as that. With girlies being the ones who are still the majority gender that stay at home , either as a housewife or additionally as a mother, it is the men who have more opportunity to wander...

..however, your point could be valid when one takes into consideration the increasing number of working women too.

quote:I think that is a simplification.  True that men tend to geographically roam more than women, but that does not mean that women do not get the opportunity to take lovers (especially while there menfolk are geographically roaming).  Both parties have always had ample opportunities (maybe less so in Muslim countries, where women are more constrained), even if the manner in which those opportunities arise might be different.

George

 Well, yes it is a simplification, butI did say it was a generalization, and yes, there is of course ample opportunity for the women at home to ' play away 'too , though I suspect it is far more inconvenient for a woman at home to be immune to suspicion.

Both parties certainly do have opportunities but I would still maintain that the working man has more opportunity.
Men are the same as women, just inside out !

[neilep]

quote:Originally posted by ukmicky

HMMM This could be a hard one.

,

 

quote:
"Wifey screams so loud during intercourse that I don't know what to do to quiet her down. We are now banned from our local library.
."

Confucius Says Man who knows how to control a wife is called a bachelor.

Michael

It's just that we still need to return some books ! and it was quite a queue []

Men are the same as women, just inside out !

[Carolyn]

I really hate pissing people off or stepping on any toes.  And I guess it's possible that  my attitude in this subject can be attributed to hormones - or a lack of them.  Or possibly the fact that I'm once again lacking in sleep.  And please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.  I am after all only a woman.

quote: We do know that far more children are not the natural children of the person who is named on their birth certificate as the father than people would like to admit – maybe this is nature at work.

Are you trying to say that most women are lying whores?

quote:  
One could well argue that the ideal biological father is a very different person from an ideal husband and ideal parent.

Maybe the logical extension to argument would be to suggest that the guy who should get a woman pregnant should only be a one night stand, and her husband should be someone else entirely.

Why would a woman want to have a child with someone that isn't good enough to be a husband?
That makes no sense to me.  Why would you want a child whose genes don't come from a man good enough to be your spouse?

quote:Sex really has performed two separate roles, that of social grooming and that of impregnation. The imperatives for the two are not the same.

Clearly, the social grooming is about the couple trying to keep each other interested in the relationship,

Sex is about far more than two separate roles.  I pity the poor people who only have sex to get pregnant or to keep someone interested.  Yes, it is used to impregnate and definately used to keep each other interested.  What about love, trust, passion. What about raw, animal lust.  What about a rip roaring, mind blowing sexual good time.  Possibly in a library[]

quote:
and has nothing whatsoever to do with pregnancy, although it does have to do with social paternity (i.e. the woman keeping the man interested enough in her offspring, whoever the genetic father might be, that he will continue to provide for those children). This latter point might be regarded as less relevant for career women than it might have once been, although even most working mothers still earn far less than their husbands.

I find the above statement in bold far too infuriating to say anything other than WHAT??

George - I truly hope that I'm reading this wrong, as I have respected your opinion in every other topic.  However, it almost sounds to me as if you believe women are ignorant and incapable of making proper decisions as to whom they should mate with, and the only thing we're here for is to lay on our backs and reproduce and provide a mediocre good time for men.

Carolyn

[Carolyn]

quote:Originally posted by neilep
Dear Agony Uncle Michael,

Wifey screams so loud during intercourse that I don't know what to do to quiet her down. We are now banned from our local library.

Please help.

[]

Men are the same as women, just inside out !

Neil - I have a suggestion for you.  In the town I grew up in, the local library offered classes and workshops.  Perhaps you can offer to have a workshop for men on how to keep your wife happy, satisfied and smiling.  And by all means give demonstrations. Maybe they would lift the ban if you offered this valuable, much needed service.[]

[neilep]

Thanks Carolyn,

I appreciate your understanding of my predicament and thank you for the understandingly seriousness of the situation.

I'll take your advice under due consideration. I need a new a career !! I'd be delighted to have workshops for men on how to keep their wives happy !!..obviously I prefer the hands on approach and would expect their wives to play an active role in the reproduction of my demonstrations ! []...all in the interest of helping them out of course ! []

Men are the same as women, just inside out !

[another_someone]

quote:Originally posted by Carolyn

quote: We do know that far more children are not the natural children of the person who is named on their birth certificate as the father than people would like to admit – maybe this is nature at work.

Are you trying to say that most women are lying whores?

Whether adultery makes a woman a lying whore is a subjective issue, but I certainly had no intention of suggesting most women – I may be wrong, but I vaguely recollect something like 4%-5%, i.e. less than 1 in 20 births are the consequence of adultery (although one may speculate that more adultery than that occurs that does not result in pregnancy, but I certainly am not suggesting it comes close to being most women).

I also suggested that in my opinion, given the greater ease with which divorce can be obtained, I would imagine the rate of adultery is now less than it once was.  Though it must also be said that one should not equate all adultery, either past or present, to deception (i.e. there are certain cases, although I would certainly have no idea about any figures for how often this was or is the case, when the husband is aware of, and consents to, and even in some cases actively promotes, the adulterous behaviour of his wife).

There are ofcourse many complexities to all issues regarding human (or any higher order animal) relationships, and my statement regarding births consequent to adulterous relationships can still cover a wide range of behaviours that can lead to that outcome.

quote:

quote:  
One could well argue that the ideal biological father is a very different person from an ideal husband and ideal parent.

Maybe the logical extension to argument would be to suggest that the guy who should get a woman pregnant should only be a one night stand, and her husband should be someone else entirely.

Why would a woman want to have a child with someone that isn't good enough to be a husband?
That makes no sense to me.  Why would you want a child whose genes don't come from a man good enough to be your spouse?

The comment was a little bit a tongue in cheek extrapolation of what Michael was saying.  He was suggesting that a good man was someone who would best get a women pregnant, while I was suggesting that a good father and husband may require attributes different from this, so maybe a logical extension of his comment should be a separation of the roles of biological father and that of husband and social father.

Ofcourse, increasingly, one can say that the role of step father is not at all uncommon (albeit, I am again not suggesting it is a majority situation, but simply that it is not an uncommon situation).  I can well imagine that many of these situations (again, many is not the same as most) might occur because a woman, in her youth, fell in love with some virile and macho man, had his children, but then realised that the person she was married to really was not someone who was good in a settled relationship, so they divorces, and she later finds a man who is better in long term relationships (but less the passionate Don Juan) to become the step father of her children.

quote:

quote:Sex really has performed two separate roles, that of social grooming and that of impregnation. The imperatives for the two are not the same.

Clearly, the social grooming is about the couple trying to keep each other interested in the relationship,

Sex is about far more than two separate roles.  I pity the poor people who only have sex to get pregnant or to keep someone interested.  Yes, it is used to impregnate and definately used to keep each other interested.  What about love, trust, passion. What about raw, animal lust.  What about a rip roaring, mind blowing sexual good time.

When I said it had two roles to play, I was not suggesting that these roles were necessarily applied in a cynical or calculating manner.

Yes, there is animal lust, but that is like saying that one eats because one is hungry, but that does not disallow that the purpose of eating is to provide nutrition for the body, but nature then creates an instinct to ensure that the required purpose is not merely left to rational logic but retains an imperative even in the absence of calculating logic.

I was simply referring to the underlying reasons, not the immediate motivation.

quote:

quote:
and has nothing whatsoever to do with pregnancy, although it does have to do with social paternity (i.e. the woman keeping the man interested enough in her offspring, whoever the genetic father might be, that he will continue to provide for those children). This latter point might be regarded as less relevant for career women than it might have once been, although even most working mothers still earn far less than their husbands.

I find the above statement in bold far too infuriating to say anything other than WHAT??

George - I truly hope that I'm reading this wrong, as I have respected your opinion in every other topic.  However, it almost sounds to me as if you believe women are ignorant and incapable of making proper decisions as to whom they should mate with, and the only thing we're here for is to lay on our backs and reproduce and provide a mediocre good time for men.

Carolyn

It certainly is not intended to suggest that women are in any way ignorant, although in most cases, neither men nor women use much intelligence (i.e. cynical and rational logic) when deciding matters regarding sexual partners.  This is even more true of the modern, where men and women marry for love, than it was in times past, when women did apply their intellect more than their emotion in choosing a husband, and marriage was more a career choice.  These day's, mostly prostitutes make rational choices regarding sex, and the view of Mary Wollstonecraft that marriage was legalised prostitution is far less true now than it was in the 18th century that she was living in (although I do know of a few modern cases where not a lot has changed in the intervening centuries).

I was responding to Michael's post, which I did recognise was a little tongue in cheek (maybe elsewhere as well – I would not care to say), but the implication of his post seemed to be that the only reason men are here is to lie on their front, reproduce, and give women a mediocre good time.

It is true that Michael's post looked like he had loaded a 12 bore with smileys, and blasted away at his computer screen, and I neglected to do likewise – my apologies if that is my crime in this.  I am not suggesting that what I stated was other than what I believe to be true, but it was a deliberately selective truth that was taken out of context to be regarded purely as a response to Michael's post, and not to be regarded as a complete description of the complexity of human relationships.  My later response to Neil did attempt an expansion on the context, but clearly it was well short of a 300 page essay on the subject (as inevitably is this).

It is rather difficult to know if I have dug myself out of a hole, or dug myself ever deeper in.  It is a subject where it is almost impossible to say the right thing, and I am not one to say something merely because it is politic to say it, but I also understand that my instinctive hyperrationalisation does not always sit well in such an emotive subject, and is easily prone to being misinterpreted as cyncicism.

George

[Carolyn]

Thanks for clearing this up.  You have no idea how hard it is for me to swallow my pride and apoligize, as I am annoyingly stubborn.  But here goes.  I apologize, George.

Lying whore may have been to strong of a statement.  Maybe cheating or dishonest would have been more accurate.

You are correct, the word MOST was not used by you, that was indeed my choice of words.

quote:
The comment was a little bit a tongue in cheek extrapolation of what Michael was saying. He was suggesting that a good man was someone who would best get a women pregnant, while I was suggesting that a good father and husband may require attributes different from this, so maybe a logical extension of his comment should be a separation of the roles of biological father and that of husband and social father.

Ofcourse, increasingly, one can say that the role of step father is not at all uncommon (albeit, I am again not suggesting it is a majority situation, but simply that it is not an uncommon situation). I can well imagine that many of these situations (again, many is not the same as most) might occur because a woman, in her youth, fell in love with some virile and macho man, had his children, but then realised that the person she was married to really was not someone who was good in a settled relationship, so they divorces, and she later finds a man who is better in long term relationships (but less the passionate Don Juan) to become the step father of her children.

Admittedly, I didn't think this through.  One of my oldest and dearest friends is in this situation.  She married, had his first child, less than a year later had twins with this same man.  She has been accused many times of cheating (although I don't know when she would have time with 3 children in diapers) and has even been subjected to an humiliating "physical" by her husband to see if she had indeed been unfaithful.  By the time she realized what a womanizing, control freak, and in my opinion, emotionally abusive jerk he is, she was "stuck" in a bad marriage.  Divorce is not an option.  He has not let her have a job, so she has lost all of her marketable skills.  He has convinced this once strong, vital woman that she is nothing without him, and that if she ever leaves he will get the children, and she'll be left with nothing.  In all honesty, her husband was on my mind when I replied to your earlier post.  I apologize for directing my frustation and anger over her situation at you.  Please accept my apology for not seeing the humor in some of your statements.

I live in a small "hick" town, full of "rednecks".  There are alot of good men here, but there are also alot of men that regard their wives/girlfriends as their personal property.  Their opinions don't matter, and they are viewed as second class citizens.  They are there to satisfy the needs of the man.  I have actually seen some of these men show more respect to their hunting dogs.  It's digusting and disheartening.

Unfortunately, sometimes I am an emotinal thinker, and logic tends to fly out of the window.  

quote:
It is rather difficult to know if I have dug myself out of a hole, or dug myself ever deeper in.

I would say you definately dug yourself out of a hole you never should have been in.

Carolyn

[neilep]

Carolyn,


I know you don't need to apologise to me for anything ...... but.....

.............can I also have an apology ? []


....You do it so well.[]...and I want one too ![]


Men are the same as women, just inside out !

[ukmicky (OP)]

quote:I would say you definately dug yourself out of a hole you never should have been in.

Lucky man [].

 

quote:Carolyn,


I know you don't need to apologise to me for anything ...... but.....

.............could I have an apology too ?


....You do it so well....and I want one too !

Neil don't try it

Michael