[Hadrian (OP)]

Well I could fill books on that. But lets just say ones who for what ever reason don't care what their kids do.


Also what about week mined people who are easily influenced do they need to be shown due care by esteemed sites such as this.  


What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.

[Carolyn]

I encounter numerous children who have parents like that.  I wish I could take them all in and show them what it is like to grow up in a loving home.  Unfortunately, that is just not realistic or affordable for me.  And honestly, I probably don't have the patience for it.  However, my children have friends with parents like that.  We open our home and our hearts to them and try to let them know they can come to us for anything.  If we can't help them, they know we will find someone that can.  We also let them know that they have to follow our rules when they are in our home.  That is non-negotiable.  We can't help everyone of them, but we do what we can.

Unfortunately, we can't control week minded people.  If we could, there wouldn't be dysfunctional parents.  I personally love this site.  I started coming on for the zeta thread, but found all the other threads informative, and sometimes comical. I have learned alot here.  I haven't traveled much, so I'm not exposed to different cultures.  One thing I have learned is that we're not that different.  That's just one of the things I love about this site.  I have found people here to be helpful whenever they can.  There are things on here that I don't agree with, but I still like it here and would not have a problem if my 12yr old son came here.  Well, I wouldn't want him to read everything I've written, but overall, I wouldn't have a problem with it.  That being said, I have a good relationship with my children and we discuss everything from sex to bombs, and the dangers of both.  I realize that not every parent has that kind of relationship and the most we can hope for is that any information found here is not used dangerously.

[Hadrian (OP)]

I like this site too very much. If did not care deeply for it I would not bother you post such a topic. The last century was remarkable in many ways some good some bad. It heard it said at conference in Rome that we managed to kill over 100 million people between wars and murder. This only reflects a small fraction of the people who were injured physically and mentally too. It is now thought that our genes are not closed to events in our lives. So like karma we go on paying for the things we do into future generations. There was a time when it was socially expectable to drink and drive and to even boost about it the next day. Now it not. Making booms that have the potential to kill will someday be viewed this way. This century is our chance to amend for the excess of death we inflicted on one another. Tuning our backs on violence can not be ala cart. To do it we have to turn away from all the tools of violence too. We want to hold on to our guns and swords because deep down we still need the power they offer us. Booms are devices for destruction. Humans have spent their short time on this planet destroying everything in there path. Of course we love to blow up things it in our destructive nature. But we can transcend this. That is our choice and like all things it starts in mind. It is in the thoughts and ides we have.  It is in our values. I am only asking why we tolerate one value over another. One that belonging to the past and one may be part of a possible future for all mankind. A world in harmony with nature. A world at peace.

What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.

[another_someone]

quote:Originally posted by Hadrian
Making booms that have the potential to kill will someday be viewed this way. This century is our chance to amend for the excess of death we inflicted on one another. Tuning our backs on violence can not be ala cart. To do it we have to turn away from all the tools of violence too.

Booms do not kills people – when you drive your car, there are thousands of explosions per second going on inside the engine.

Explosives, in a general sense, are a very valuable tool of humanity (even more so than guns, which themselves use explosive propellants).  To deny people the right to create explosions would be to undermine half the industries that we use one of their tools.  The space industry uses explosives, and even the air bags in your car that are supposed to save your life uses explosives (no, that does not go bang, it is not that powerful an explosive – but explosive it is, and air bags can kill).

Knives probably kill more people each day than explosions do, and motor cars certainly do.

Certainly, our government in this country has tried to curtail the sale and use of knives; but not to great effect.  A knife, like so much else in life, is a multi-purpose tool, and killing is only one use you can put it too.

quote:
 We want to hold on to our guns and swords because deep down we still need the power they offer us. Booms are devices for destruction.

Yes, and if you have a tower block you wish to remove, that is an act of destruction, for which you can use explosives.

Yes, knives and explosives do give us power – would you choose to make humans powerless?

quote:
 Humans have spent their short time on this planet destroying everything in there path.

There is very little difference between construction and destruction – for he who constructs, must first destroy that which was before.

When you build a house, you must destroy whatever lay on the ground before the house was there.

When you get food for your meal, you must destroy the life of that which you are about to eat (that is even true if all you eat is vegetable).

quote:
 Of course we love to blow up things it in our destructive nature.

No, I think it is a misjudgement to suggest that humans like to destroy – at least in a narrow sense.

What humans like is to feel that they can make a difference (even if that difference is simply to make a load bang).  As I said, when i was a teenager, I like making explosives and pyrotechnics; but I never sought to destroy anything (except maybe the tranquillity of the neighbourhood).

Ofcourse, as I said above, to make a difference, one must in some way destroy the past – but for most people, that is not the primary purpose of their actions.  Even those dreaded terrorists believe (however naively) that they are trying to create a better future, and their act of destruction is in their own minds simply a way to wipe away the past in order to construct what they see as a better future.

quote:
I am only asking why we tolerate one value over another. One that belonging to the past and one may be part of a possible future for all mankind. A world in harmony with nature. A world at peace.

Most of us, even Osama bin Laden, want peace, but we want peace on our terms, and not on someone else's terms.  The problem is, when people want peace so much that they are willing to kill anyone who does not agree with the peace that they desire.

The Palestinians and Israeli's also both very desperately want peace; it is simply that neither is willing to accept peace on the other parties terms; and both would rather kill they other than give way on their own demands.

Maybe what we should seek first is a bit of tolerance, to allow other people the legitimacy of their values just as much as we believe in our own values.  Ultimately, can we really have peace if we cannot show tolerance?  Can we have peace, if we are only willing to allow peace on our terms?

As for being in harmony with nature, and being at peace – but nature is never at peace – to quote an oft used cliché “nature is red in claw and tooth”.  If we want peace, then do we not want to overcome nature, rather than live according to its laws?

George

[another_someone]

quote:Originally posted by Carolyn

Here is where I disagree with you George.

quote:
We live in a world where teachers are afraid of giving a child a hug, lest they be accused of sexual assault; where we would not stop to help a person in trouble lest we find ourselves in trouble; where the avoidance of risk is more important than to seek to help people.

We have to stop being paranoid about death, and do more to seek to embrace life. Death will find us all in the end, it may be sooner, or it may be later; but at least give us the chance to live first, and do not keep us prisoners in our own fears.

My opinions on this would be far too long winded, but the jest of it is this.  My daughter drives now and is on her own alot.  I think its sad that I've had to teach her that she has the right to be rude to people.  I think you should be polite if at all possible, but people are pushy.  I don't want her helping strangers in the mall, or a parking lot.  I would rather her be rude to strangers and be alive and well, than to be polite all the time and be dead or missing.

Carolyn

I understand where you are coming from, and I realise there was a certain element of idealism in what I said; but equally, I would ask, if your daughter lay hurt and bleeding to death, would you wish everyone to simply walk away for fear of the risks of getting involved?

It may sound like I am some sort of 'goody goody' – I am not.  I can think back to quite a few occasions where I had to make a split second decision whether to help someone or not, and I did nothing.  I hope there are a few occasions where I did make a positive difference; but I am more haunted by those occasions where I remember that I did not.  I have standards, but I recognise those standards as that which one should seek to achieve, not necessarily that which mere human beings are always able to achieve.

I am not talking about politeness – I have never been too hung up on politeness – that is mere superficiality.  I am talking about offering help when it is needed, not merely telling someone what the time is is they ask you in the street.

The point I was making was not whether we can live in a world without fear; but whether we should aim for a world where we are ever more dominated by the fear of the worst others might do, or seek to try and allow people to do the best within the available circumstances.  The real world is not black and white; but in which direction do you wish to push it?

George

[Hadrian (OP)]

Hey George it you reality it’s the way you see things I hope it make you happy and fulfilled and mean that form the bottom of my hart. We are not going to agree so the best of luck to you.  

Happy half century to you, my little post war baby.

What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.

[another_someone]

quote:Originally posted by Hadrian

Hey George it you reality it’s the way you see things I hope it make you happy and fulfilled and mean that form the bottom of my hart. We are not going to agree so the best of luck to you.  

Happy half century to you, my little post war baby.

What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.

Thank you kind sir – but still another couple of months to my half century – lets not rush it quite so fast []

George

[Hadrian (OP)]

i am oct 1956 []

What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.

[Carolyn]

quote:I understand where you are coming from, and I realise there was a certain element of idealism in what I said; but equally, I would ask, if your daughter lay hurt and bleeding to death, would you wish everyone to simply walk away for fear of the risks of getting involved?

Absolutely not.  Sure I would want someone to help her.  If neighbors hadn't helped me when I was shot, I would've bled to death.  That's not really the kind of help I was talking about.  I'm talking about strangers that try to convince you they need help with their car; or strangers in a parking lot that try to sell you cheap perfume or whatever in a possible attempt to rob or rape you; or seemingly nice gentlemen in a mall pretending to be lost and asking for directions. By the way, as a teenager, I was approached by a nice gentleman in a mall, he was a pimp trying to set up a prostitution ring in my town.

quote:It may sound like I am some sort of 'goody goody' – I am not. I can think back to quite a few occasions where I had to make a split second decision whether to help someone or not, and I did nothing. I hope there are a few occasions where I did make a positive difference; but I am more haunted by those occasions where I remember that I did not. I have standards, but I recognise those standards as that which one should seek to achieve, not necessarily that which mere human beings are always able to achieve.

I think most of us have been in this or similar situations.  Perhaps what we should be teaching our children is how to properly make those split second decisions as to whom to help or not help.  Unfortunately, I don't think the majority of us are qualified to teach our children that particular lesson, at least I don't think I am.

quote:I am not talking about politeness – I have never been too hung up on politeness – that is mere superficiality.

I find that hard to believe.[]

Carolyn

[Corbeille]

What the F*ck is a "boom"?




"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities - Voltaire"

[rosy]

I think from context that in this thread it is used to denote both a bomb (an explosive device intended to damage life and/or property) or a loud bang created by explosives.. I'm not quite sure why it's being used in the former context, possibly the perpetuation of a typo, or possibly out of a fear that to be seen to have typed the word "bomb" on a forum might lead undiscriminating law enforcement agencies to suspect terrorist leanings.

[Hadrian (OP)]

How about the fact that I am Dyslexic and I don’t always see the glearing errors in  my typing  boom boom!

What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.