[tanian (OP)]

Well, while we're on the subject of God, we may as well tackle the inevitable quantifying question.

Anyone like to get us started?

[tanian (OP)]

You know, this is probably as good a place as any to start:

Definition of God:

God
A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
A very handsome man.
A powerful ruler or despot.

We can probably eliminate the bottom two for the purposes of our discussion.
Although, it is good to know I'm a God

Definition of sentient:

sen·tient
Having sense perception; conscious: “The living knew themselves just sentient puppets on God's stage” (T.E. Lawrence).
Experiencing sensation or feeling

[ukmicky]

sentient or sapient ?

Michael

[another_someone]

quote:Originally posted by tanian
Definition of sentient:

sen·tient
Having sense perception; conscious: “The living knew themselves just sentient puppets on God's stage” (T.E. Lawrence).
Experiencing sensation or feeling

But, in the absence of telepathy, and the absence of a common language, how would you judge and entity to sense perception, or concious.

Any definition of sentience must be one that we can apply from the outside.

George

[gecko]

didnt you already learn all this nonsense when you read the 5 page god report in this same forum?

whats the point,honestly...

[tanian (OP)]

I didn't, no. And as I recall, that 5 page God report is both unfinished and in need of real clarification in places. The biggest flaw as far as I can see is quite simply that in 5 pages no-one even defined God in the first place. Pay attention, gecko.

[GOD]

Hello all.

I am just passing by and thought I would call into say hello. I am being very busy not existing. Hope you are all well.
I must say how much energy is being used to define me when I do not exist could be put to better use.
I think the first definition above has the key word ' conceived '
Anyway, off I go. It's hard work all this non existence.



It's tough not existing !!

[gecko]

for once, im with god!

how can you define something with no observation at all...

i believe tooky-tooky exists. now lets define it.

tooky-tooky could be anywhere, or nowhere. it could be something, or nothing. you may be able to proove it, or it may be impossible to proove it!

isnt this so interesting?

[Laith]

who created god?

Laith

[neilep]

quote:Originally posted by Laith

who created god?

Laith

In my opinion, as an athiest with agnostical leanings I would have to say that mans imagination created God laith...but that's My opinion and I would not proselytise it to you or anyone else. []

Men are the same as women, just inside out !

[another_someone]

quote:Originally posted by gecko
for once, im with god!

how can you define something with no observation at all...

i believe tooky-tooky exists. now lets define it.

tooky-tooky could be anywhere, or nowhere. it could be something, or nothing. you may be able to proove it, or it may be impossible to proove it!

isnt this so interesting?

Ofcourse you can define something without observing it.

One can define infinity, one can define imaginary numbers – although neither can be observed.

One can even define a unicorn, although they are regarded as being just as mythical as the notion of God is by many.

Ofcourse, one cannot prove or disprove the physical existence of something without having both a definition and an observation (although the observation need only be indirect), but one can easily define in the abstract without any need for observation.

George

[another_someone]

quote:Originally posted by tanian
Definition of sentient:

sen·tient
Having sense perception; conscious: “The living knew themselves just sentient puppets on God's stage” (T.E. Lawrence).
Experiencing sensation or feeling

OK, thinking about this a little more.

To know oneself, to be self aware,  implies there is some 'other' that one can contrast oneself to.  This also implies an element of comparable scale.  By this, I am not talking about physical scale, but rather that something that is sentient at one one level may not be at another, because sentience (since it contrasts 'self' to 'other') can only be observed from the outside, where both 'self' to 'other' are visible, and cannot be observed from a perspective where the 'other' cannot be seen.  A single human brain cell cannot see the human brain as being a sentient organism, since it cannot itself see the interactions of the brain in totality with that which occurs outside of the human body, it can only see its own local interactions with the brain, which are totally mechanistic.

Your original question in http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4254 asked whether 'is the universe sentient'  - I now think it reasonable to argue that from within the universe, the universe can never seem sentient.  If multiple universes exist, and those universes are capable of interacting with each other, then one may ask whether those interactions may display sentience, but that could not be possible to observe from within.

George

[tony6789]

Try going 2 the topic"God:real or not?"

NEVER! underestimate youth

[Titanscape]

The Christian God is Yahweh, I AM THAT I AM. Describing a God above time. He interjects into history and he future from the same place. He boasts in Is that no one can change history.

He is light and love in nature, and is Spirit, possibly later attaining a nervous system, although Jesus certainly had one. So that part of God does. Jesus is short for Yahwehshua.

God as creator had to be above time.

Titanscape