[Ylide (OP)]

I heard that the human body creates and recycles, on average, 2 to 3 pounds of ATP a day.  If your body could not synthesize ATP and it had to be purchased from Sigma-Aldrich, this would cost you $20,000 to $30,000 a day to survive.  



This message brought to you by The Council of People Who Are Sick of Seeing More People

[bezoar]

Good thing I have my own in-house supply.  Wouldn't be able to afford the synthesized purchases.

Bezoar

[tweener]

At that rate, the population would probably completely die off before they could get the manufacturing techniques perfected so that anyone could afford to stay alive.


----
John

[Donnah]

Isn't ATP produced during Creb's cycle from ADP?  Anyone want to refresh my memory on how Creb's cycle works?

[Ylide (OP)]

I just took an exam on this.  Here's the synopsis for conversion of 1 molecule of glucose into ATP in an aerobically respirating organism.

Glucose enters cell and undergoes glycolysis.  Net gain from glycolysis is 2 molecules of ATP (produces 4 but uses 2 initially) and 2 molecules of NADH.  The glucose now exists as 2 molecules of pyruvate.  
Overall reaction for this step:  Glucose + 2 ADP + 2 Phospate ion + 2 NAD+ ion -> 2 ATP + 2 NADH + 2H+ (protons) + 2 H2O

NADH is sent directly to the electron transport chain where the proton is removed and the electrons bonding it to NAD+ are brought to a lower energy state to fuel the creation of more ATP from ADP.  

The pyruvate is also sent to the mitochondria where it loses a proton and a CO2 molecule to become acetyl CoA.  It then undergoes the Kreb's cycle where a series of reactions net 2 more molecules of ATP, 6 more NADH, and 2 FADH2.  All of the proton carriers are sent to the electron transport chain where they give up their protons and release the bonding electrons to provide more energy for the synthesis of more ATP, which then powers the cycle again, ad infinitum.  

Note that the last step of the electron transport chain is the only reason you need to breathe oxygen.  Oxygen reacts with protons at the end of the chain to create water.  This reaction at the end of the chain creates a proton gradient that provides the thermodynamic potential for protons to move in and out of the mitochondrial matrix.  (the re-entry provides the energy that drives the bulk of the ATP synthesis in your body)

All in all, the theoretical net gain of ATP in a eukaryotic cell during aerobic respiration is 36 molecules of ATP.  In reality it's something closer to 30.  Your mitochondria use the proton gradient for functions other than ATP synthesis and it can also lose protons that stray off the gradient.  Organisms are so messy.  

Glycolysis and the Kreb's Cycle only produce 4 ATP themselves.  They are quite inefficient.  They do, however, produce the electron transport molecules that ultimately create most of the ATP your body needs.  

Probably more than you wanted to know.  =)

This message brought to you by The Council of People Who Are Sick of Seeing More People

[Ians Daddy]

Here's a cartoon on the subject.....

http://www.sp.uconn.edu/~terry/images/anim/ATPmito.html

[Donnah]

Thanks Jay.  Any indication that problems with the electron transport molecules are connected to CFS?

Ron, cool cartoon.  You still staying up all night?

[Ians Daddy]

It's getting a little better. My stress level is a little lower, but my gears grind just the same. I'm forcing myself to get up early and it makes me tired at night. However, I hate naps and find myself dozing off during the afternoons. Still working on it. Thanks for asking. It'll work out soon, I'm sure.

[Ylide (OP)]

Donnah:  I'm not really sure.  I don't know very much about CFS or its mechanism of operation.  (I'm still a lowly undergrad dontcha know)  However, it's listed in the NIH database as a mitochondrial disease and aside from a couple ATP molecules that get spit out of the Kreb's cycle, most of the energy created in the mitochondrial matrix is from electron transport, so I'd say that it is very likely.  

However, that's still a very broad range of things that might not work.  It could be anything from a degredation of the proton gradient (via several different possible pathways) to conformational changes or mutations of electron transport molecules.





This message brought to you by The Council of People Who Are Sick of Seeing More People

[Ylide (OP)]

Ok Donnah, in the course of an assignment I was working on, I ran across something regarding mitochondrial diseases, and CFS was mentioned.  It's not necessarily CAUSED by electron transport dysfunction, but they are certainly related.  The exact quote:

"The investigators of the study state “it should be clear that our data do not prove that mitochondrial dysfunction
causes CFS. Rather, we show that mitochondrial dysfunction is involved in CFS”. Whether the cause of this dysfunction is some immune- or cell-signaling anomaly, perhaps due to a genetic predisposition triggered by a viral or bacterial infection, remains to be seen."

Another quote showing it is electron transport in particular that is affected:

"Ubiquinone (CoQ10), an electron transport chain component in the mitochondrial inner membrane, has also been reported to help CFS patients."


This message brought to you by The Council of People Who Are Sick of Seeing More People

[Donnah]

Jay, seems there are a lot of syndromes and diseases (exzema, psoriasis, FM, CFS...) that stem from immune dysfunction.  Working backwards, what causes immune dysfunction?  Instinctively I'd say that it is partially due to brain chemistry gone awry and partially due to some external influence.  

Brain chemistry changes with our thoughts and most of what runs through grey matter is habitual thinking patterns we are not aware of.  Become aware of our thoughts and we have the power to change them (not easy, but do-able).  Stands to reason that toxic thoughts create a toxic environment in our bodies and healthy thoughts create a healthy environment.

External influences could be something like lack of nutrients.  As a society I think that stress puts huge demands on our bodies, but we (ususally) don't give our bodies the fuels they need to meet the extra demands.  Nor do we drink enough pure water.  Then again we need a properly functioning intestinal tract to absorb the nutrients and water.

I've read that most disease originates from problems in the intestines.  I'm starting to believe that's true, but would add the mental factor as a critical component.

[Ylide (OP)]

I certainly agree that mental state has a large effect on health.  Depression, anxiety, and stress all take away from the resources your body has to fight off illness.  

Since we obtain the materials our cells need to continue their functions by eating, and since most of the absorption process is done in the intestines, I don't think you're too far off by saying that intestinal dysfunction is a factor in some illnesses.  I don't know that I feel comfortable saying "most" as I think most diseases are caused by a pathogen of some sort.  Maybe one of the resident docs can answer that.  

I've been thinking a lot lately about biofeedback techniques.  I think it's an area that merits further research.  There have been some advances lately in that experiments have shown that with the proper biofeedback devices, people have been able to change brain wave patterns and PET scan output.  I don't think it's a huge jump to say that people would be able to alter their brain chemistry via one of these devices as well.  A lot of mental and physical disorders could be cured by this sort of treatment, from hormonal problems to depression.  



This message brought to you by The Council of People Who Are Sick of Seeing More People

[tweener]

Mental state has a huge impact on health as evidenced by the huge effort put forth to negate the "placebo effect" in clinical trials.  I wonder if anyone has ever done any trials to try to measure the magnitude of the placebo effect?

There is a lot of current research on the relationship of diet to inflammatory response.  It turns out that a high carbohydrate diet really steps up the inflammation in your body.  This leads to all sorts of problems and chronic diseases.


----
John

[bezoar]

Don't forget that a viral or bacterial infection can also precede an autoimmune disease.  The mental status can lower resistance to make you  more susceptible to viral or bacterial illness.  

I read a study a while back about feeding patients post-operatively.  Those who were fed sooner had a lower infection rate, so there is indication that the bowel and a normal eating pattern affects the immune system function.

Bezoar