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quote:Originally posted by GBSBYoung human who is adopted by animals is adopting four leg stances. Young four legged animals adopted by humans never adopted bipedal stance.It is to conclude that for humans it is still natural to walk on four legs.
quote:By humans like no other species current process of evolution is visible.
quote:By children, driving force to adopt bipedal stance and upright body posture is wish to imitate surrounding social environment and to be part of social environment - to be accepted by the community.
quote:Just standing or moving from one place to another (walking, running and jumping) on four legs in position parallel with the ground, demands some level of physical strength and physical balance of the body.Doing any activity on two legs is much strenuous than on four legs.
quote:It is much easier to maintain balance using four legs like all another four legs animals than by using just two legs.Before carrying gods and tools comfortable stance was four leg stances. Carry goods in the hands and/or on the shoulder cause gain more physical strength and balance.
quote:Understanding process evolution of humans body posture enable as to understand what is optimal human’s body posture concerning health, well being and outwards appearance. (All other species maintain same body posture but by humans we can se so many different body postures.)Understanding process of evolutions of human’s body posture will prevent backwards process in evolution of humans race.
quote:quote:Originally posted by another_someonequote:Originally posted by GBSBYoung human who is adopted by animals is adopting four leg stances. Young four legged animals adopted by humans never adopted bipedal stance.It is to conclude that for humans it is still natural to walk on four legs.You really did not need much of an experiment for this, you just have to look at a young baby crawling before they learn to walk.Young baby crawling it doesn’t mater if it is raised by humans or by another animals. Only, a baby raised by humans will in a short period crawl and after a few months will adopt bipedal stance.Young baby raised by animals will maintain always some form of crawling (four leg stances).Four legged animals are created to walk on four legs. Humans are not fully created to walk on two legs, though humans are not anymore fully created to walk on four legs. But we can conclude that humans are still more created to walk on four legs than and in some smaller extant to walk on two legs.Current process of evolution influences future creation, but to which extent is hard to say. quote:quote:By humans like no other species current process of evolution is visible.Not true.Most species actually carry a log of their evolutionary baggage with them in their early development.If you look at the development of an embryo in the womb, you will see it passes through various phases, some of which almost look fishlike, and other phases that would be indistinguishable from many other animals.I think that any process that is happening in the womb is process of creation. Even some process after birth belongs to process of creation, for example growth of the teeth. In many cases it is difficult to separate process of creation from process of evolution. We can observe creation as finished product of evolution.Any change in creation influence future evolution and any change in current evolution will influence future creation. quote:What is unusual in humans is that when they are born they are relatively immature, and so still have a lot more development to do. Most other animals, when they are born, the new baby is far more mature, and is far more capable of looking after itself than a human baby is.I think humans are relatively immature because they are not fully created to walk on two legs and they are not fully created to walk on four legs as they used to be created before adopting bipedal stance and upright body posture. Still they are in bigger extent created to walk on four legs than on two. Humans are still in process of adaptation (process of evolution) two leg stances (bipedal stance) from four legged stance.Before adopting bipedal stance and upright body posture, development of embryo in the womb was happening in always same position to pull of gravity. After adopting bipedal stance and upright body posture, development of embryo is happening in one position (concerning the direction of the pull of gravity) when human walking and in another position when humans sleeping. All another four legged animals are not in such extent affected by evolution and most of them are created in much bigger extent to walk on four legs quote:Ofcourse, if what you are trying to suggest is that humans are not in fact genetic programmed to walk upright, but have to learn to walk upright – this is not an unreasonable statement; but it does not answer the question of how it came about that humans are even capable of walking upright.Early humans didn’t intend to adopt upright body posture. Driving force to carry significant loads for a significant amount of time is indirect cause of adopting upright body posture.How it came that humans are even capable of walking upright is at best to discover if we are understand how we are today capable to walk upright and what enable as today to carry own body weight in upright position whit more easiness. quote:quote:Just standing or moving from one place to another (walking, running and jumping) on four legs in position parallel with the ground, demands some level of physical strength and physical balance of the body.Doing any activity on two legs is much strenuous than on four legs. It is not really that much more strenuous, in the muscular sense, although it requires more nervous input and more brain power (and a good sense of balance).It is still strenuous enough to unable naturally adaptation of bipedal stance and upright body posture by young children. quote:On the other hand, there is also another great difference – that we walk with our heals on the ground (unless we are running), whereas most other animals (excepting birds, which are also bipedal, and do that with far less brainpower than humans possess) walk on their toes.It is interesting comparison between humans and animals. I wasn’t aware that animals walk on their toes. I can only ad that when we are running with poor physical balance we also first touching the ground with heal (effect of falling from one leg to another).Birds are bipedal but maintaining body posture parallel with the ground(excepting legs and neck) and humans are also bipedal but maintaining upright body posture. quote:quote:It is much easier to maintain balance using four legs like all another four legs animals than by using just two legs.Before carrying gods and tools comfortable stance was four leg stances. Carry goods in the hands and/or on the shoulder cause gain more physical strength and balance.I suppose we can look at birds doing things the other way around, where they carry things with their feet, while they use their wings to fly.Ants get around the problem of carrying things by having specialised pinchers for the purpose of carrying things.When birds and ants carry some goods they doing this activity in body posture parallel to the ground. Humans carry goods in upright body posture. quote:Furthermore, even other apes can carry things while on the move because they walk on their knuckles, so can still grasp things even while they are walking.Things what apes usually carry when they are walking are small weight compare to weight of apes and apes are able to carry small weight things without using upright stance. Another factor is that apes carry some things only for short period of time and does not carry things on the shoulders. In this case extra strain caused by carrying some things is not big enough to cause gaining more physical strength and physical balance of the body in such extent that apes will be able with more easiness to carry own body weight in two legged position. quote:As for carrying goods on one's shoulders – humans have carried goods on the backs of other animals for millennia, and these other animals do not have an upright stance.From biomechanical point of view, carrying goods on the shoulder and carrying goods on the back are two completely different situations.Carry goods on the shoulder was only possible using upright stance. Carry goods on the back by four legged animals is possible only by using four leg stances.For example to put load of goods on donkeys back and on top of that demand from donkey to carry this goods on two legs in upright stance, I think it will be too much. If some another animal was enough clever and used humans to carry goods on human’s back humans will never adopt upright stance.If humans invented backpack before adopting upright body posture than in this case humans will be still walking on four legs. quote:There is no such thing as 'backwards evolution'.I agree with you, backwards evolution is not appropriate word to describe what I mean; appropriate word to describe is destructive evolution.In last twenty five years, incidence of many illnesses is skyrocketing just for example incidence of diabetes is eight fold increase. In just twenty years change of shape of human body is visible; for example increased of incidence of; overweight and obesity, double chin, boldness, are just e few of many. quote:Evolution is the process by which change occurs, and that change which is beneficial is what survives. All that survives is by nature the next step forward in evolution.This change what we are witnessing in last twenty-five years does not make me optimistic about future of humans race. Only hope is better understanding of current evolution of the humans. quote: QuoteOfcourse, when you talk about the health of the individual during their own lifetime, then understanding the proper functioning of the human body can help improve a persons personal health – but this has absolutely nothing to do with evolution. That which is good for the individual may be diametrically opposite from the direction evolution is driving (although evolution does not give us in advance any road map that tells us where we will evolve to next).Understanding the proper functioning of the human body is not possible without understanding evolution of human body posture. Luka Tunjic
quote:Originally posted by another_someonequote:Originally posted by GBSBYoung human who is adopted by animals is adopting four leg stances. Young four legged animals adopted by humans never adopted bipedal stance.It is to conclude that for humans it is still natural to walk on four legs.You really did not need much of an experiment for this, you just have to look at a young baby crawling before they learn to walk.
quote:quote:By humans like no other species current process of evolution is visible.Not true.Most species actually carry a log of their evolutionary baggage with them in their early development.If you look at the development of an embryo in the womb, you will see it passes through various phases, some of which almost look fishlike, and other phases that would be indistinguishable from many other animals.
quote:What is unusual in humans is that when they are born they are relatively immature, and so still have a lot more development to do. Most other animals, when they are born, the new baby is far more mature, and is far more capable of looking after itself than a human baby is.
quote:Ofcourse, if what you are trying to suggest is that humans are not in fact genetic programmed to walk upright, but have to learn to walk upright – this is not an unreasonable statement; but it does not answer the question of how it came about that humans are even capable of walking upright.
quote:quote:Just standing or moving from one place to another (walking, running and jumping) on four legs in position parallel with the ground, demands some level of physical strength and physical balance of the body.Doing any activity on two legs is much strenuous than on four legs. It is not really that much more strenuous, in the muscular sense, although it requires more nervous input and more brain power (and a good sense of balance).
quote:On the other hand, there is also another great difference – that we walk with our heals on the ground (unless we are running), whereas most other animals (excepting birds, which are also bipedal, and do that with far less brainpower than humans possess) walk on their toes.
quote:quote:It is much easier to maintain balance using four legs like all another four legs animals than by using just two legs.Before carrying gods and tools comfortable stance was four leg stances. Carry goods in the hands and/or on the shoulder cause gain more physical strength and balance.I suppose we can look at birds doing things the other way around, where they carry things with their feet, while they use their wings to fly.Ants get around the problem of carrying things by having specialised pinchers for the purpose of carrying things.
quote:Furthermore, even other apes can carry things while on the move because they walk on their knuckles, so can still grasp things even while they are walking.
quote:As for carrying goods on one's shoulders – humans have carried goods on the backs of other animals for millennia, and these other animals do not have an upright stance.
quote:There is no such thing as 'backwards evolution'.
quote:Evolution is the process by which change occurs, and that change which is beneficial is what survives. All that survives is by nature the next step forward in evolution.
quote: QuoteOfcourse, when you talk about the health of the individual during their own lifetime, then understanding the proper functioning of the human body can help improve a persons personal health – but this has absolutely nothing to do with evolution. That which is good for the individual may be diametrically opposite from the direction evolution is driving (although evolution does not give us in advance any road map that tells us where we will evolve to next).
Ofcourse, when you talk about the health of the individual during their own lifetime, then understanding the proper functioning of the human body can help improve a persons personal health – but this has absolutely nothing to do with evolution. That which is good for the individual may be diametrically opposite from the direction evolution is driving (although evolution does not give us in advance any road map that tells us where we will evolve to next).