Is it possible to bend some space-time?

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Offline faytmorgan

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Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« on: 15/04/2013 19:15:44 »
So there is LOTS of science FICTION on how to bend space time. Lots of different proposed (mostly bs) ideas. Now I am no nuclear physics phd albeit I do have a wealth of knowledge that applies to what I know. That last sentence is complicated seeing that I know nothing about anything nor does anyone else. We can only prove the science to a point. You don't even know that I exist. WHOO lets not go down that path eh?

Back on point. We have a lot of assumptions in science. One thing I am leaning toward is a theory about things on a nuclear level to bend space time. What if gravity is just a side effect of nuclear force? Why do we assume that it is a substance thing? Also couldn't nuclear force be just centrifugal force that slowly breaks down over (time)? If that is the case then in theory a device can be made that spins(or vibrates) at an appropriate level to create a force that replicates what happens when there is a LOT of mass. Thus bending space-time.

Let throw some holes in this theory. You people (know) much more about this subject than I do. My major is certainly not nuclear physics. I come from a theology background. From what I see there is a fundamental correlation to the hologram principle and most mythology/theology/religion/etc. there is just one thing I am missing to build upon my theory. What is actually bending space-time. Like most of theology people tend to overcomplicated things, at this point I think people, perhaps, are over complicating the science here. For example why is there creation? Well in theology there is something that most people miss, if there is a creator, that is what the creator does. Like a painter paints, the creator creates. Don't over complicate it. Its that simple. The correlation I have found in science and theology is that the hologram IS the creator. People didn't have the science then to communicate what it was they understood. They gave the hologram a persona. And I am getting off track again.

SO in short, please throw some holes in my idea. Also if there is a more (logical) answer that I can research into. Please shout it out, kind sirs and madams!

Fayt~
« Last Edit: 16/04/2013 08:46:26 by chris »

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Offline yor_on

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Re: Lets bend some space-time!
« Reply #1 on: 15/04/2013 20:22:34 »
Nothing bends it :)
Or mass do, and rays do, and relativistic mass do too, and 'energy', and 'motion'.

First you need to tell me what 'space' is, to make me bend it :)
There are geodesics in a space, those get their definitions from the things above.

But I don't know what 'space' consist of. If it 'consist' of anything.
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Offline faytmorgan

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Re: Lets bend some space-time!
« Reply #2 on: 15/04/2013 20:39:51 »
What do you mean what is space? space (from my understanding) is the in between that the everything is held within.

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Offline yor_on

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Re: Lets bend some space-time!
« Reply #3 on: 15/04/2013 21:20:53 »
ahh, but what is it?
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Offline faytmorgan

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Re: Lets bend some space-time!
« Reply #4 on: 15/04/2013 21:24:42 »
What do you mean? You are being cryptic.

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Offline yor_on

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Re: Lets bend some space-time!
« Reply #5 on: 15/04/2013 21:57:40 »
Well, space is nothing, or it is something. Is it a medium in where things propagate or is it just empty? An aether was one try for a (vacuum) medium, but the MM experiment killed that one. But as you say, it differs matter from matter, and it has a distance, as far as we can measure existing in four dimensions. Each point of a vacuum can be defined by those four, time and three other. Classically it is a 'nothing', presenting you with no resistance. Quantum mechanically it may be seen to contain energies, and bosons, as the Higg boson. That, although unmeasurable to us directly, still define the Inertia of a object, and possibly also the mass.

And in Relativity 'gravity' is nothing more than a preferred direction, as I think though. But Pete would give you a more solid answer there. But a lot of it hangs together with what ideas you have defining a vacuum.
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Offline faytmorgan

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #6 on: 16/04/2013 09:33:18 »
Well, for my book I need to come up with a logical/scientific answer that explains how it is possible to;

have a portal on a planet that all the inhabitants go through to another to end up on another planet which also has a portal on it which the inhabitants come through. I also need to show how it is possible for a planet to have a portal at its core that is not accessible until the planet no longer exists (ie blows up).

Any thoughts?

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Offline RD

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #7 on: 16/04/2013 09:45:28 »
... have a portal on a planet that all the inhabitants go through to another to end up on another planet which also has a portal on it which the inhabitants come through...
 
Any thoughts?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole  [ hypothetical ]

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Offline yor_on

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #8 on: 16/04/2013 15:59:38 »
You will need a lot of 'exotic matter' for a wormhole, to keep it from breaking up, also it is a function of gravity as I remember, which makes it a 'hollow world' maybe? You can always place some black holes in a stable configuration inside it, two might work. Maybe one would work better, placed in a perfect center,  'rotating' as being 'at rest' with the 'Earth shell'? I'm not sure there. You will have to assume a ideal perfect sphere, I think, to begin with which should make visitors rather suspicious.
=

Why not use a 'quantum machine' breaking you down into quanta, connected via entanglement to some other place, that then retrieve the information? It will need to use light speed though to send the code for that exact 'copy' that will be built up, each time. So those who use it will not only be lost in space, but also in time. And then it also becomes a question if toughts, and the way you think, will be the same? Although that one is highly philosophical.
« Last Edit: 16/04/2013 16:11:38 by yor_on »
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Offline ScientificSorcerer

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #9 on: 16/04/2013 17:28:58 »
I have posted a TOET (theory of every thing) that I think explains pretty well what gravity is and what matter is. just go to the new theory section to read it. it's quite simple, just think of it like this. 

Imagine a pond, when you throw a rock into the water you displace it and as a result you get waves in exactly the same way the big bang displaced space to get waves of light when light forms a photon cloud/electron/quark it bends space like a whirlpool inward this effect is gravity.

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Offline imatfaal

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #10 on: 16/04/2013 17:52:33 »
ScientificSorcerer

No more links or adverts to your idea in New Theories please. 

many thanks
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Offline faytmorgan

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #11 on: 16/04/2013 19:06:31 »
I have posted a TOET (theory of every thing) that I think explains pretty well what gravity is and what matter is. just go to the new theory section to read it. it's quite simple, just think of it like this. 

Imagine a pond, when you throw a rock into the water you displace it and as a result you get waves in exactly the same way the big bang displaced space to get waves of light when light forms a photon cloud/electron/quark it bends space like a whirlpool inward this effect is gravity.

that doesn't work on many levels. i really don't have the time to point out all of the reasons why it does not work at all. google leonard susskind (spelling) and hologram principle. if you understand theology the way i do. that makes way more sense and it answers way more questions than it asks.
-----------
i am dealing with the issue of mass gaining more mass at as the speed increases closer to the speed of light. where does the mass get more mass? does it suck in more matter and condenses it? etc-

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #12 on: 16/04/2013 19:06:51 »
ScientificSorcerer

No more links or adverts to your idea in New Theories please. 

many thanks

thanks :)

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Offline faytmorgan

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #13 on: 16/04/2013 19:21:24 »
You will need a lot of 'exotic matter' for a wormhole, to keep it from breaking up, also it is a function of gravity as I remember, which makes it a 'hollow world' maybe? You can always place some black holes in a stable configuration inside it, two might work. Maybe one would work better, placed in a perfect center,  'rotating' as being 'at rest' with the 'Earth shell'? I'm not sure there. You will have to assume a ideal perfect sphere, I think, to begin with which should make visitors rather suspicious.
=

Why not use a 'quantum machine' breaking you down into quanta, connected via entanglement to some other place, that then retrieve the information? It will need to use light speed though to send the code for that exact 'copy' that will be built up, each time. So those who use it will not only be lost in space, but also in time. And then it also becomes a question if toughts, and the way you think, will be the same? Although that one is highly philosophical.

i am not sure gravity isn't much like centrifugal force which is not a true force. Rather, its a fictitious force that you (or an object) feels when moving in a circle. However, there is something call centriPETAL force. This is the actual force required to keep an object in a circular motion and points toward the axis of rotation.

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Offline lightarrow

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #14 on: 16/04/2013 19:45:57 »
So there is LOTS of science FICTION on how to bend space time. Lots of different proposed (mostly bs) ideas. Now I am no nuclear physics phd albeit I do have a wealth of knowledge that applies to what I know. That last sentence is complicated seeing that I know nothing about anything nor does anyone else. We can only prove the science to a point. You don't even know that I exist. WHOO lets not go down that path eh?

Back on point. We have a lot of assumptions in science. One thing I am leaning toward is a theory about things on a nuclear level to bend space time. What if gravity is just a side effect of nuclear force? Why do we assume that it is a substance thing? Also couldn't nuclear force be just centrifugal force that slowly breaks down over (time)? If that is the case then in theory a device can be made that spins(or vibrates) at an appropriate level to create a force that replicates what happens when there is a LOT of mass. Thus bending space-time.

Let throw some holes in this theory. You people (know) much more about this subject than I do. My major is certainly not nuclear physics. I come from a theology background. From what I see there is a fundamental correlation to the hologram principle and most mythology/theology/religion/etc. there is just one thing I am missing to build upon my theory. What is actually bending space-time. Like most of theology people tend to overcomplicated things, at this point I think people, perhaps, are over complicating the science here. For example why is there creation? Well in theology there is something that most people miss, if there is a creator, that is what the creator does. Like a painter paints, the creator creates. Don't over complicate it. Its that simple. The correlation I have found in science and theology is that the hologram IS the creator. People didn't have the science then to communicate what it was they understood. They gave the hologram a persona. And I am getting off track again.

SO in short, please throw some holes in my idea. Also if there is a more (logical) answer that I can research into. Please shout it out, kind sirs and madams!


Sorry, but could you formulate your question/idea in more direct terms? I sincerely haven't grasped which is exactly.

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Offline flr

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #15 on: 16/04/2013 20:10:02 »
i am dealing with the issue of mass gaining more mass at as the speed increases closer to the speed of light. where does the mass get more mass? does it suck in more matter and condenses it? etc-

It is not that 'mass get more mass'.
The energy and momentum of particles are frame dependent.

E^2 = (m0*c^2)^2 + (p*c)^2

E and (pc) are frame dependent, i.e. the amount of "E" a "p*c"you measure depends on your speed relative to object that you measure it.
The rest mass m0 and the energy associated with it E0 = m0*c^2 is frame independent, and the rest mass does not 'gain more mass'.

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Offline yor_on

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #16 on: 16/04/2013 20:22:34 »
Are you suggesting that gravity might be a centripetal force?
That one I would like to hear :)

Go for it, it may make a interesting SF, or maybe fantasy?
I read both kinds myself.
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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #17 on: 16/04/2013 20:32:36 »
... I do have a wealth of knowledge that applies to what I know.
What exactly does that mean. You just said that you "know what you know" which we all do.

Quote
We can only prove the science to a point.
Science is all about making observations, developing theories to describe what we observe then making predictions based on those theories and then testing those theories. We never prove theories.  Science  can't do that.

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We have a lot of assumptions in science.
Such assumptions are referred to as either laws, principles or postulates.

Quote
One thing I am leaning toward is a theory about things on a nuclear level to bend space time. What if gravity is just a side effect of nuclear force?
Nope. The nuclear force is very different in nature to gravity. It's incorrect to think of force as bending spacetime. The source of spacetime curvature is mass. The effect of spacetime curvature does not extend outside the nucleus. It's a short range force, quite unlike gravity. Also light is ueffected by the strong force whereas its defleected by mass.

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Why do we assume that it is a substance thing?
Nobody assumes that spacetime is a substance. We use the term "fabric of spacetime" merely as an analogy to visualize it. It has no substance and that is well known by relativists.

No observation made in nature is consistent with what you suggested.

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #18 on: 16/04/2013 20:36:03 »
Are you suggesting that gravity might be a centripetal force?
That one I would like to hear :)

Go for it, it may make a interesting SF, or maybe fantasy?
I read both kinds myself.
The centrifugal force is an inertial force which is of the same nature of a gravitational force. However centripetal forces do not curve spacetime. Then again it take more than the presence of a gravitational force to curve spacetime. It requires at least having gradients in the gravitational force. Curved spacetime is a complicated thing.

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Offline faytmorgan

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #19 on: 16/04/2013 21:34:03 »
how does nasa intend on doing it with that oval space-ship within their holdings then?

"Are you suggesting that gravity might be a centripetal force?
That one I would like to hear :)

Go for it, it may make a interesting SF, or maybe fantasy?
I read both kinds myself."

exactly- that is my idea. just- you worded it way better. i don't speak science as much as i do theology. i just found a potential problem that i will have to confront and would like to eliminate it by giving a scientific explanation of it.

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Offline yor_on

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #20 on: 16/04/2013 21:43:24 »
Well, it's as Pete says, it can't be a centripetal force. But that doesn't mean that you can't construct a universe from your idea. As a writer it will be yours :) and I see nothing stopping you from constructing it. Unless you crave it to be a 'hard core' SF in which case you need to adapt to what science know and defines.
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Offline faytmorgan

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #21 on: 17/04/2013 09:23:02 »
Well, it's as Pete says, it can't be a centripetal force. But that doesn't mean that you can't construct a universe from your idea. As a writer it will be yours :) and I see nothing stopping you from constructing it. Unless you crave it to be a 'hard core' SF in which case you need to adapt to what science know and defines.

after some further reading - yup- i was wrong there. if the force is just the string holding the ball from flying off than yup i was wrong. i may look into taking advantage of quantum entanglement, and i need to read general relativity again- its been too many years since i have brushed up on it thoroughly.

any other ideas?

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Offline faytmorgan

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #22 on: 17/04/2013 09:53:19 »
Check this out-
newbielink:http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/140550-first-teleportation-of-macroscopic-objects-leads-the-way-to-quantum-internet [nonactive]

if we can transport this small information- perhaps when tech becomes more pronounced we can attempt transporting a plant seed or been then the plant then an insect then an animal (a rat) then maybe even a human being. or am i just way off base here?

can anyone give me a better explanation on how this work exactly? as in how do they or what do they use to entangle the bits?

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Offline yor_on

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #23 on: 17/04/2013 13:44:58 »
Assume you want to port state A to some other place. You get two entangled objects, B1 and B2. One you keep, the other you deliver somehow to the place where you want to replicate state A. You can't measure on state A directly as that will interfere with its state, changing it. So what you do is to measure on the relation state A has to state B1, for example the way state B1:s spin has to state A, around some axis. Knowing the relation you haven't measured state A directly. but you have a relation that will be just as true for your friend 'over there' that you sent the entangled B2 too. The only thing he will need is a new 'photon' State C that he then put in the exact same relation to B2 that your B1 have to state A.

But it is indeed measuring involved, although on the relation between those particles state. And what you should end up with is two exactly correlated photons both in State A. But it is a tricky one. Check up Charles Bennet (1993) IBM if you're interested of it.

It's not a 'startrek procedure' but a indirect way to create a relation between what you measure on and what you want to copy, giving you as 'exact' a copy on the other side we possibly can imagine. And it opens for discussion as it builds on a assumption that I can measure on something being in a relation to something else without changing the relation, or else assuming that even if I do change the relation, I still won't have changed  the original 'particle' which state I want to copy to the other side. Also, the sending of this information, or code, will still have to be done under light speed (in a vacuum)
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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #24 on: 17/04/2013 13:55:32 »
And the entanglement in this case can be done with a beamsplitter, separating one photon into two, down converting the original photons energy 1 to two photons of .5, in where the subsequent photons now will have opposite polarizations (spin) and so be 'entangled'. The weird thing about entanglements are that they are supposed to instantly set their states as fast as you measure on one. Either you can assume some hidden parameter creating the 'spins', at their creation? Or you can assume a entanglement to ignore distance and light speed.

Also, there is no way for you to know what the spin will be on the particle you measure on, before the measurement. It has a 50% chance to be 'up' or 'down'. But no matter what polarization/spin it is found to be, the other particle will 'know' and set the opposite.
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Offline faytmorgan

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #25 on: 18/04/2013 09:22:35 »
This sounds a LOT like how you project a hologram. Am I off base here?

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #26 on: 18/04/2013 17:03:07 »
You better explain how you think there, then we'll see what we agree on :)
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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #27 on: 18/04/2013 19:02:44 »
Teleporting a photon (a photon is the smallest measurable unit of light) using quantum entanglement (QE). When two photons are entangled on a quantum level the changes in “particle A” create changes in “particle B”. Regardless of the physical distance between them. This has been proven at the particle level.

In 2009 scientists at the University of California manged to demonstrate QE by linking the electrical currents of two super-conductors which were large enough to be seen by the naked eye. Before this time QE had only been observed at much smaller levels.

The entangled particles somehow contain or transmit information with no contact. Each object then contains information about the entire entangled system. The only other structures that exhibit this phenomenon are called holograms. Holograms are two dimensional surfaces that show precisely detailed three dimensional images of real objects.

Which makes sense to me going back to what I have already been thinking on how the universe is constructed - the holographic principle.

Leonard Susskind on the Holographic principle
newbielink:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DIl3Hfh9tY [nonactive]

UC Berkeley's Raphael Bousso on the Holographic principle
newbielink:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHgi6E1ECgo [nonactive]

And Wikipedia article on the Holographic principle
newbielink:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle [nonactive]

There are things in theology that I have linked to this in particular. I came across this idea when I was sitting on my front porch trying to figure out what tells the cement to stay/be cement and separate from the iron railing going down the bath that is grounded into it. So i closed my eyes and visualized a myriad of different possibilities. The only logical explanation I have found thus far is that on the smallest level (quarks/bits quantum/photon/etc) that the stuff at that level has a certain amount of programing of sorts. This programing can understand the programing -like a computer- from other stuff that may be slightly different. The slight differences in the programing pave the way for the stuff to put in one file and separate from other files. Although the stuff is all in one big folder in the end regardless of having separate files. That one big file being the computer itself. The computer at this level would require to understand all of the files within it and could accesses all of the files within it at will.

This made me think of how holograms are formed. I then asked a friend of mine about it who had mentioned about seven years ago about the holographic principle. He then told me what I was describing is very similar to the holographic principle. So I decided to do some research on it.

Throughout all of my research I had a nagging thing on the back of my mind. That thing was my memory of all the studies I have done in theology/mythology/legends/and the like. There are a few things that all of these topics (theology etc) have in common if you go to their furthermost roots in their development. There is a certain amount of "oneness" being connected to the "all", the "big spirit", a reference to being in (as in not "akin to", damn it, its WITHIN the image) the image of god, that this (god) greater consciousness was infinite. Then I remembered something I read about hermes trismegistus from the "Kybalion".

Wiki article on the Kybalion
newbielink:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kybalion [nonactive]

Aside from "the principle of gender" this train of thought actually relates to all of the things I have been thinking. We all know everything but we know nothing we are just figments of our own belief. In hypothesis, if we all stopped believing each other existed we would cease to exist. Our mind is a thing we can train. What are we training? The file system within our self- is the best way I know to describe it. This file system is similar to how the universe works (there have been multiple studies that have lead to the human brain works similar to a holographic storage device), and seeing that the everything (including us and rocks and trees etc) are part of this everything, "the all" we could, in hypothesis- train our mind to affect the stuff around us.

This is where my mind is going at this point. sorry for the terrible writing (run on sentences etc)- eek.

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Offline lightarrow

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #28 on: 18/04/2013 21:21:40 »
The entangled particles somehow contain or transmit information with no contact.
Do you mean I am entangled with my brother every time he calls me by phone?  [:)]

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Offline faytmorgan

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #29 on: 18/04/2013 21:28:36 »
as long as that it is not lude- then yes. btw the dictionary here is not picking up the word lude- that indeed, IS a word...

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #30 on: 19/04/2013 14:00:21 »
Quote from: faytmorgan
after some further reading - yup- i was wrong there. if the force is just the string holding the ball from flying off than yup i was wrong. i may look into taking advantage of quantum entanglement, and i need to read general relativity again- its been too many years since i have brushed up on it thoroughly.

any other ideas?
A centripetal force is merely the force required to move an object in a circle or a circular part of a trajectory. The force could be the gravitational force or an electromagnetic force. A charged particle moving perpendicular to the field lines in a uiform magnetic field causes the centripetal force in that case. For a satelite moving around the earth its the gravitational force. The force required to hold an object moving along a solid object (e.g. roller coaster) is electric in nature, as is the force exerted by a string.

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Offline faytmorgan

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #31 on: 19/04/2013 15:16:25 »
Quote from: faytmorgan
after some further reading - yup- i was wrong there. if the force is just the string holding the ball from flying off than yup i was wrong. i may look into taking advantage of quantum entanglement, and i need to read general relativity again- its been too many years since i have brushed up on it thoroughly.

any other ideas?
A centripetal force is merely the force required to move an object in a circle or a circular part of a trajectory. The force could be the gravitational force or an electromagnetic force. A charged particle moving perpendicular to the field lines in a uiform magnetic field causes the centripetal force in that case. For a satelite moving around the earth its the gravitational force. The force required to hold an object moving along a solid object (e.g. roller coaster) is electric in nature, as is the force exerted by a string.

yep- i was wrong there. thoughts about the similarity to a hologram?

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Offline yor_on

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #32 on: 19/04/2013 15:39:15 »
I'm not sure, A holographic image is a wave phenomena as I get it, and sure, you might think of photons as waves (wave packets) if you like. But the holographic theory? Would that be a wave definition then? As I get it the definiton expect two dimensions to exist, from where we get our third, and a arrow?
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Offline yor_on

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #33 on: 19/04/2013 15:54:12 »
What I'm saying is that a wave is dimension less. Then again, I'm not that good on defining a holographic universe, maybe we have someone that can do it in simple terms?
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Offline faytmorgan

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #34 on: 19/04/2013 23:58:34 »
Did you watch the you tube videos i posted?

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #35 on: 20/04/2013 03:26:03 »
Did you watch the you tube videos i posted?
Not yet. I've been having problems with my PC. Internet Explorer and FirFox have been running as slow as molasses for some reason. I can't figure out why. I scanned my system with Ad-Aware and found no problems. I tried to download Spybot but got errors so I can't use that program to see if there are problems with my system. Any ideas anybody?

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Offline faytmorgan

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #36 on: 20/04/2013 04:11:17 »
Malwarebytes Anti-Malware
avg
update spybot

go into safe mode and do this. sometimes you will miss stuff if you are not in safe mode. you wont be able to go to the internet in safe mode- so you know. beyond that if you have never done registry sweeping- you are better off handing it off to someone who has. you can really screw things up very quickly.

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #37 on: 20/04/2013 10:09:27 »
Do a 'system restore' if it's windows, set it to some days before you found the problem, if that doesn't help? Need to look at processes, assuming you don't have some corrupted, but you need to know what should be there preferably (cntrl alt del) and then close the ones you don't recognize, one at a time, to see if it speeds it up.
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Offline yor_on

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #38 on: 20/04/2013 10:13:41 »
And no, I don't use U-tube at all with my connection :) Too expensive. So, either we need a good explanation, or we need to go out and create one here :)
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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #39 on: 20/04/2013 10:16:26 »
the problem is with the nomenclature there. People using far and near fields either know when it's appropriate and have a physical meaning, or they don't, parroting it. I prefer as simple words as possible, some may seem simple, from studying the holographic principle, but it's bad practice assuming that everyone else will know.
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Offline faytmorgan

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #40 on: 20/04/2013 16:24:37 »
That is unfortunate that you can't get on youtube- leonard susskind has the best explanation i have seen thus far of what is going on. can you access Wikipedia?

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #41 on: 20/04/2013 17:27:54 »
Well, I was on a site where it was extensively discussed for some years, that doesn't mean I know it though :) Me, I want it simple. Relaying 'c' to a arrow is simple, and logically deductible. Discussing Bomh, Aspen, entanglements becomes a lot more tricky, involving a lot of mathematics, that you better get for real :) if you want to see what they mean. And to then explain what you get, without the mathematics, making it logical, and understandable in words, is one big step further to me.

Have seen a lot of hand waving on the subject, but nobody has come near to make it logic in words for me.
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Offline yor_on

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #42 on: 20/04/2013 17:35:05 »
And there is one thing more. It's not satisfying to me to assume one dimension replaced by a holographic principle. Why would we need the two others? I call that archetypes. Think that was my first instinctive response too :) either you have a universe where dimensions actually, and for real (whatever that is in this thinking) exist. Or you don't. doesn't mean that it has to be wrong though, just not fitting my taste.
=

And then there are the arrow too, would that be a result of a holographic principle too?
But I'm still waiting for the guy or gal, actually able to describe it.
Or I will be forced to do it :)  and we all know where that will end ::))
« Last Edit: 20/04/2013 17:38:10 by yor_on »
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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #43 on: 20/04/2013 18:36:10 »
There is one simple way to test is. If the universe gets blurry on a small scale, then you might assume this having to do with you using just some percent of the 'full information'. A hologram, breaking it into pieces, will still contain all information, but it will blur, the further down in scale you go. So if we are a hologram we will get out of 'focus' at a small scale. There have been one test I know of that says 'No', another that says 'Yes, or, at least Maybe' :) and then we have hogans holometer that is built for probing very small scales 'fuzziness'.

But the main irritation for me is the one keeping two dimensions, questioning a third. Also trying to see the arrow as a construct from it, or rather, observer dependencies, because I do not see how it explain 'c'.

Which one do we take away:)
Length, width or height.
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Offline Ethos_

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #44 on: 20/04/2013 19:36:14 »
Well, I was on a site where it was extensively discussed for some years, that doesn't mean I know it though :) Me, I want it simple. Relaying 'c' to a arrow is simple, and logically deductible.
The simplest way I know to define this is the comparison of our universe to a black hole. Susskind had a disagreement with Hawking on this several years ago and in the end, Hawking had to admit that Susskind was right.

No information is lost to a Black Hole because it is all retained at the event horizon. Susskind compares the surface of the event horizon to the outer limits of our universe. And argues that reality is very much like a Hologram, where events occurring everywhere in the universe are connected with copies of this information occurring also at this outer shell.

I agree that anyone interested should also watch the video.
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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #45 on: 20/04/2013 21:03:32 »
BTW, Leonard Susskind is the Felix Bloch Professor of Theoretical Physics and Director of the Stanford Institute of Theoretical Physics. His expertise involves particle physics and gravitational physics at Stanford University.
« Last Edit: 20/04/2013 21:05:18 by Ethos_ »
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Offline yor_on

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #46 on: 20/04/2013 21:07:19 »
I use word solely, images are manipulative, steering you into views. Words on the other hand needs you. It will be your brain making that image, or movie, and none will be the same. Because to me each brain have different views, and when you find a way to use it, you grow :) And books have that effect, if one have the patience to read them. I love books, but I stopped looking at the telly, decades ago.
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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #47 on: 20/04/2013 21:15:58 »
Then again, I do use images, but sparsely. when I do it, it is to press home some view I have.

nobody's perfect :)
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Offline lightarrow

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Re: Is it possible to bend some space-time?
« Reply #48 on: 20/04/2013 21:38:27 »
as long as that it is not lude- then yes. btw the dictionary here is not picking up the word lude- that indeed, IS a word...
You wrote:
<<The entangled particles somehow contain or transmit information with no contact. >>
My ironic answer intended that what qualifies entanglement is not that, because we can transmit information with no contact with a simple radio transmission.
Second, and more important, with entanglement you cannot transmit information.

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