Is it real or just your imagination?

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Offline lilkim

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Is it real or just your imagination?
« on: 18/07/2006 16:59:05 »
I have often wondered about soo many things and never quit know if some of them are real or just what someone might believe.

A couple of these things are:

Ghosts or spirits..the land of limbo..ect...I "know" some shows (most) shows are fake and just for entertainment, but I don't "know" if the people i know and trust are real when they share experiences they have had or if it just thier imagination. I do "know" what I have experienced and even though it was ME that experienced it I still "don't" "know" that it was real or MY imagination. I did not believe in such things till it happened and then when it did I do not understand why I am still not convinced....so confusing.

Another thing i wonder about is general public gestures...like when you walk by someone and automatically say hello or how are you...why do we do it when most of time we really do not care nor want a reply, i understand the politeness behind it all, but doesn't it just make everyone fake???

If the universe is infinate how can there be a heaven or hell, a top or bottom??? and if our fate is destined from birth than why is there choice??
Would that mean that we are either "born" good or evil????

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Offline moonfire

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #1 on: 18/07/2006 17:38:27 »
public gestures are something we have been taught to be polite, but not always are people polite with responses or nonresponses...

who says heaven or hell has a top or bottom?  We are both good and evil!  We make a choice to be either...right now I am a good girl who chooses to be bad...


"Lo" Loretta
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Offline Hadrian

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #2 on: 18/07/2006 19:04:57 »
BOOOOOOOOOOO![:D][:p][:D]

What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.

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Offline moonfire

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #3 on: 18/07/2006 19:55:18 »
Now little Imperor...erm...you are being impolite...where are your manners?lol

"Lo" Loretta
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Offline neilep

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #4 on: 18/07/2006 20:52:03 »
I actually think public gestures are very worthwhile....it's nice to be nice !!....I ALWAYS smile when I meet someone...every single time...even to the cold hearted bitch behind the counter in the post office !!,......and I ALWAYS get a smile back every time...I even talk with a  smile....it's uplifting for those I'm speaking to and I always watch their mouths....a smile soon comes back at me....and then I say to myself.."I made that smile".....

Walking down the street saying hello, or good morning to someone who catches your eye I think is a nice way to start the day. Whether the inference is intended or not I think is besides the point.....I truly believe that if we all said hello, or just smiled that little bit more then a happier place we'd all be in.

As far as heaven and Hell or Ghosts are involved....I can't prove they don't exist...neither is there any proof that they do exist...so...speculate away like humans have done for thousands of years.

Men are the same as women, just inside out !
Men are the same as women, just inside out !

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Offline Hadrian

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #5 on: 18/07/2006 22:22:50 »
quote:
Originally posted by moonfire

Now little Imperor...erm...you are being impolite...where are your manners?lol

"Lo" Loretta



Wooooooooooooooooooooo!

What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.

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Offline moonfire

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #6 on: 18/07/2006 22:34:33 »
You are a bit wild young man and you need to be tamed a bit dear emperor!  LOL

"Lo" Loretta
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Offline cranial_implant

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #7 on: 18/07/2006 22:54:42 »
Has this thread lost it's way ?

forgive me. I'm just the new boy !

My head is not what it used to be.
My head is not what it used to be.

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Offline lilkim

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #8 on: 19/07/2006 00:46:30 »
It is nice to be nice and can sometimes feel good until someone is not so nice....but as for gestures....yes, we are taught to be so, but it still poses the question about if it makes it fake....sure some people like to say hello, but there are others that just do it out of habit or "training" and like i said do not really want an answer...and i did not mean that heaven was top or that hell was bottom, i meant them seperatly...

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Offline ukmicky

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #9 on: 19/07/2006 01:28:42 »
quote:
Originally posted by cranial_implant

Has this thread lost it's way ?

forgive me. I'm just the new boy !

My head is not what it used to be.

It happens

Michael

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another_someone

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #10 on: 19/07/2006 04:53:13 »
quote:
Originally posted by lilkim
Ghosts or spirits..the land of limbo..ect...I "know" some shows (most) shows are fake and just for entertainment, but I don't "know" if the people i know and trust are real when they share experiences they have had or if it just thier imagination. I do "know" what I have experienced and even though it was ME that experienced it I still "don't" "know" that it was real or MY imagination. I did not believe in such things till it happened and then when it did I do not understand why I am still not convinced....so confusing.

Another thing i wonder about is general public gestures...like when you walk by someone and automatically say hello or how are you...why do we do it when most of time we really do not care nor want a reply, i understand the politeness behind it all, but doesn't it just make everyone fake???

If the universe is infinate how can there be a heaven or hell, a top or bottom??? and if our fate is destined from birth than why is there choice??
Would that mean that we are either "born" good or evil????



There are a lot of questions there, and I wont even attempt to approach all of them.

Firstly, we cannot say whether the Universe is infinite, but what we can say is that the visible universe must be finite, because it is limited by the speed of light and the age of the universe (about 14 billion light years).

On the other hand, since we can see equally far in all directions, we cannot discern one direction being different from the other, and so there is no observable top or bottom (in fact, even on the Earth, there is no top or bottom, only arbitrarily assigned North and South poles but in the universe, we do not even see poles).

With regard to saying 'how are you', you have to be careful, with all human speech, to separate the words from the meaning.  In whatever we say, the intonation of voice, context, and so many other things can carry meanings that can even be contrary to the actual words we use.  As you rightly say, when we say 'how are you', we are not really enquiring about the person state of wellbeing, but are simply saying 'I come in peace, and friendship, and mean you no harm'.  The words themselves are throwaways, it is the context and tone of voice that really matters.

OK, there is also another aspect of what is being said when one says 'how are you', and that is a cultural aspect.  One of the things the Brits hate is when Americas say 'have a nice day'.  Many Brits will suggest it is because it is phoney, because the person saying it does not mean it (just as you are saying 'how are you' is phoney), but the truth be told, whatever would be said in that context would not be meant literally (if someone says 'good bye', do they really mean 'God be with ye'?).  What really irks a Brit by that is 'have a nice day' it is not a British expression, and so it culturally identifies the person saying it as being alien (in this case, of being American).

So, when you say 'how are you', you are saying two things you are saying 'I come in peace', and you are saying that I belong to the tribe of people who great each other with 'how are you', and if you also belong to that tribe, then I have identified myself as belonging to the same tribe (or at least, of belonging to a tribe that shares the same cultural values) as yourself.



George
« Last Edit: 19/07/2006 05:47:16 by another_someone »

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Offline Karen W.

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #11 on: 19/07/2006 08:26:57 »
Wow George, I generally mean, How are you doing? If by chance and it often happens the stranger says, well, not to good actually, then I usually stop and listen to the soul as they seem to need to talk! I usually ask if there is something I could do for them or if they needed some help! I love meeting new people! I must say though that My mother hated this quality about me as she thought it was not safe to be so friendly to strangers. She might be right, but I can't help myself, I love people!
  I agree with you for the most part, but would be wrong to assume everyone who used that term could fall into that catagory! See what I mean?....Karen

"Life is not measured by the number of Breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away."

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Offline neilep

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #12 on: 19/07/2006 13:47:57 »
George is of course right..by the way..How are you George ? [:D]

I won't discuss the nature of the Universe because..well..the Uni is well big and it's a well big topic along with God and stuff !..probably the two biggest subjects...along with the nature of life and what colour shorts I'm wearing today....and why..as hard as you try you just can not get the last centimetre of toothpaste out of the tube ![:)]

I have to say....though the saying ' Have A Nice Day ' makes me cringe, it is quintessentially American....but how often is it actually said ?.....I've been fortunate (boast mode) to have visited the states 4 times now...all different areas and I didn't register my ears being bombarded by the said phrase !..Yes it was mentioned..but not that often........

...same applies to ' Y'all come back now '..in fact...I don't think I have ever had this said to me.....Probably because I'm an anti-social obnoxious fart !![:D]

There DOES seem to be an air of disingenuity behind these terms but I think in the grand scheme of things they are more positive than negative..

What about Canada ?...are those phrases indigenous to the states ?



Men are the same as women, just inside out !
« Last Edit: 19/07/2006 13:48:53 by neilep »
Men are the same as women, just inside out !

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Offline moonfire

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #13 on: 19/07/2006 13:49:42 »
Yes, generally it is a fake action sometimes, but I, like Neil, will smile until someone smiles back, or be so nice to them it hurts and they have no choice but to be nice...hehe  

Karen, same way with me.  I feel like a person is reaching out and needs their life touched when they are saying something like that as well...to me it is a signal that they need help!

Ian, this is a very scientific thread...it is proven thread after thread...hehe  It evolves and it has grown already...life is in the thread!  Viva Life!  LOL



"Lo" Loretta
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another_someone

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #14 on: 19/07/2006 17:53:07 »
quote:
Originally posted by Karen W.
Wow George, I generally mean, How are you doing? If by chance and it often happens the stranger says, well, not to good actually, then I usually stop and listen to the soul as they seem to need to talk! I usually ask if there is something I could do for them or if they needed some help! I love meeting new people! I must say though that My mother hated this quality about me as she thought it was not safe to be so friendly to strangers. She might be right, but I can't help myself, I love people!
  I agree with you for the most part, but would be wrong to assume everyone who used that term could fall into that catagory! See what I mean?....Karen


Not sure that what you are saying contradicts what I said, although it does add to it.

You have implicitly acknowledged that the normal response you expect is not a detailed discussion of the minutiae of their wellbeing.  What you are talking about is what your response is to an abnormal response to 'How are you doing?'.  What you are suggesting is that if someone replies 'well, not too good actually', that this is abnormal enough to be treated as an alarm call that requires some exceptional action.  I would generall agree, although one has to make a judgement also as to what is normal for that person (i.e. if that person always responds in that way, then it is no longer abnormal for them, and is no longer appropriate to be treated as an alarm call).



George
« Last Edit: 19/07/2006 17:56:53 by another_someone »

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Offline Karen W.

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #15 on: 19/07/2006 18:55:18 »
Yes, I do believe your right, and I also really mean it when I say good day, or how are you today Sir! If I don't want to know I don't ask to begin with! I guess I am a bit weird that way. I just play it by ear as to where that conversation might go. I have had very intense deep conversations with people I have only greeted with a friendly how are you! People are really wonderful and amazing beings. They facsinate me!
« Last Edit: 19/07/2006 18:59:15 by Karen W. »

"Life is not measured by the number of Breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away."

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Offline lilkim

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #16 on: 19/07/2006 18:55:32 »
Wow...that was great George, i did not know that...but very interesting.

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another_someone

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #17 on: 19/07/2006 19:17:49 »
quote:
Originally posted by neilep
and why..as hard as you try you just can not get the last centimetre of toothpaste out of the tube ![:)]


So, tell me, if you cannot get the last centimetre out, how do you know there is a centimetre in there (and does it not rather depend upon how thinly you spread it) [:D]



George

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Offline lilkim

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #18 on: 19/07/2006 20:22:56 »
lololol...cut it open and see if it really is in there...

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Offline neilep

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #19 on: 19/07/2006 20:46:33 »
LOL...that's exactly what I did George and lilkim...i opened it up and squeezed it out...it was a whole centimetre !!..that's almost a whole weeks worth of tooth-brushing for this fresh breathed  orally hygienic fella ! [:)]

Men are the same as women, just inside out !
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Offline lilkim

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #20 on: 20/07/2006 05:34:32 »
why would the government have all those huge satalite dishes running 24/7 aimed towards outter space and invest billions of dollars into it if they did not think there was something out there?

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Offline Carolyn

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #21 on: 20/07/2006 06:01:17 »
quote:
Originally posted by neilep

I actually think public gestures are very worthwhile....it's nice to be nice !!....I ALWAYS smile when I meet someone...every single time...even to the cold hearted bitch behind the counter in the post office !!,......and I ALWAYS get a smile back every time...I even talk with a  smile....it's uplifting for those I'm speaking to and I always watch their mouths....a smile soon comes back at me....and then I say to myself.."I made that smile".....

Walking down the street saying hello, or good morning to someone who catches your eye I think is a nice way to start the day. Whether the inference is intended or not I think is besides the point.....I truly believe that if we all said hello, or just smiled that little bit more then a happier place we'd all be in.

Men are the same as women, just inside out !


Thanks for making me giggle Neil, I needed that.  Hey I think I met that postal worker.

I have to say that today someone, a complete stranger, asked me If I was ok.  I was not.  I won't go into the details as it's in another section already.  She saw I was upset, (maybe she thought I was about to start screaming, and I was actually about to become very rude)she came to me, put her hand on my arm and asked me if I was ok.  Just by that simple gesture, an act of caring and compassion, she stopped me from making a complete ass out of myself.  I would have felt horrible afterwards and had to apologize.  I felt she was sincere in her gesture and I appreciated her concern.

See you all later.  Have a nice day.[:D][^][:D]Just kidding.  I truly had no idea that you brits hated this so much.  I say it alot.  But if it makes you feel better, I only say it when I mean it.  Sometimes I actually tell people to piss off.[:p]Just kidding, again. Sorta.
Carolyn

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Offline moonfire

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #22 on: 20/07/2006 06:19:34 »
Sometimes it is sincere...and thank God you ran into someone who was Carolyn!

"Lo" Loretta
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Offline tony6789

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #23 on: 20/07/2006 14:58:57 »
The government knows something that normal people don't. They ALWAZ know something. there r rumors,yes, but what we dont know is how many of them r true. that is where the mystery starts.

NEVER! underestimate youth
LCPL Hart USMC 6400 I Level Avionics

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another_someone

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #24 on: 20/07/2006 17:32:58 »
quote:
Originally posted by tony6789

The government knows something that normal people don't. They ALWAZ know something. there r rumors,yes, but what we dont know is how many of them r true. that is where the mystery starts.

NEVER! underestimate youth



They may know something, but half the time what they know is wrong, or the person in Government who knows it is not believed by anyone else in Government, so it becomes rather irelaveant, and even counterproductive, thatn they know all these things.

Sometimes, knowing a little less, but knowing what to do with that knowledge, works better.



George

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Offline lilkim

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #25 on: 20/07/2006 18:12:07 »
so they spent all that money on those satalites because what they think they know is wrong? i heard stories and have watched documentaries about the few employees that "know" something but were never listened to or believed, but i never know if i believe them either since when it comes to the government you never know what is true or what is just info they choose for us to believe...it sure would be nice though to know what made them "think" there was something out there enough to spend all that money and invest all that time into those satalites though...pondering...

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Offline tony6789

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #26 on: 21/07/2006 14:34:18 »
well about a google:1 there is life on another planet. But as for if anything haz visited us...well..thats a difrent story, of witch i dont know the ratio of.

NEVER! underestimate youth
LCPL Hart USMC 6400 I Level Avionics

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Offline JimBob

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #27 on: 21/07/2006 20:04:32 »
quote:
Originally posted by moonfire

You are a bit wild young man and you need to be tamed a bit dear emperor!  LOL

"Lo" Loretta



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The mind is like a parachute. It works best when open.  -- A. Einstein
The mind is like a parachute. It works best when open.  -- A. Einstein

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Offline moonfire

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #28 on: 22/07/2006 05:00:37 »
Really JimBob!  Interesting....now how would you know that?? hmmmm.....

"Lo" Loretta
"Just Me, Lo" Loretta

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Offline 4getmenot

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #29 on: 01/08/2006 02:15:32 »
Is the wind in your hair or...... is your hair in the wind???

k
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sharkeyandgeorge

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #30 on: 01/08/2006 08:56:14 »
if your tired of fake public gestures come to scotland there are few of them here

there are no such things as ghosts

technically your right if space is truly infinite there is nosuch place as the top or the bottom refering to anything universally as top or bottom or indeed any dimension is just part of human reasoning and is fundamentally flawed however planets galaxies and indeed the universe are no given the values arbiterially since everything spins the top and bottom are usualy the poles but which is which it decided by our perspective at that moment what utter arrogance

I dont personally belive that there is any such thing as destiny but what i do recognise is probability if you were able to calculate the odds from every variable in your life you would have many millions of possible out comes but some would be far more likly than others a good way of showing this (which i dont have the time to right now but will try to later) is probability trees, a graphical way of showing probability distribution through the splitting and merger of branches or probability clusters which will over time and fixed variable values always show a tendency to one area.

lilkim, the liklyhood is that life exists off our planet indeed it is almost a certainty it is also quite likly that this life was,is or will be intelligent however the chances of two or more intelligent (with at least one species capable of interstellar travel) existing at the same time is tiny and the chances of those life forms finding each other tinier still.
to take another tack if the world was bieng threated by and asteroid or comet and this was what the goverment was looking for the reality is we would have absoulutly no chance of destrying or deflecting anything big enough to be a world killer. and the chances of seeing it with anysort of advance warning? minimal, comets are generally only visible crossing the sun and asteroids are only rarely seen before they are already past us and many are not seen even then.
I think the most likely reason to look to the stars is scientific information and knowledge is worth nearly any amount of money.

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Offline 4getmenot

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #31 on: 02/08/2006 23:54:14 »
lol...s&g...I very much enjoyed that post and if ever i am able to I most certainly will be visiting scotland..i hear it is just beautiful there.

k
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Offline 4getmenot

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #32 on: 03/08/2006 05:07:46 »
what if there is nothing out there? what if when we die it is just lights out and there is nothing else???? could it be even when we are so intellegent and have such intriquet minds and internal body makeup?? You would think that there would have to be more to eternal life otherwise why would we be mentally where we are? It would be such a waste to have lived and accomplished all that humans have and do to just die one day and it just be dark or a vast nothingness.....

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another_someone

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #33 on: 03/08/2006 12:51:21 »
quote:
Originally posted by 4getmenot
what if there is nothing out there? what if when we die it is just lights out and there is nothing else???? could it be even when we are so intellegent and have such intriquet minds and internal body makeup?? You would think that there would have to be more to eternal life otherwise why would we be mentally where we are? It would be such a waste to have lived and accomplished all that humans have and do to just die one day and it just be dark or a vast nothingness.....



Why a waste?

It is true, that if all you have accomplished is for yourself, then if you die, then those accomplishments will die with you; but if what you have accomplished is for others, and they live after you die, then will not those accomplishments not continue to have value for others even after your death?



George

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Offline 4getmenot

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #34 on: 04/08/2006 03:23:00 »
quote:
Originally posted by another_someone

quote:
Originally posted by 4getmenot
what if there is nothing out there? what if when we die it is just lights out and there is nothing else???? could it be even when we are so intellegent and have such intriquet minds and internal body makeup?? You would think that there would have to be more to eternal life otherwise why would we be mentally where we are? It would be such a waste to have lived and accomplished all that humans have and do to just die one day and it just be dark or a vast nothingness.....



Why a waste?

It is true, that if all you have accomplished is for yourself, then if you die, then those accomplishments will die with you; but if what you have accomplished is for others, and they live after you die, then will not those accomplishments not continue to have value for others even after your death?



George




yes..that is true and i understand that...but what i mean is waste as far asno where else to go or be, nothing else personally to accomplish or learn...it seems a waste to have such great potential or desires etc...and to die for it to be just over with nothing in after life ya know?

k
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another_someone

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #35 on: 04/08/2006 12:30:24 »
quote:
Originally posted by 4getmenot
yes..that is true and i understand that...but what i mean is waste as far asno where else to go or be, nothing else personally to accomplish or learn...it seems a waste to have such great potential or desires etc...and to die for it to be just over with nothing in after life ya know?



Firstly, ofcourse, the intelligence we posses is connected to our life expectancy, and one reason I suspect that people have become more clever over time is because they have been living longer.  There is no point in putting a child through an education system where (s)he does not become productive until they are in their mid 20s, if they are going to die at 35 but if you know that you can obtain value from them until they are 65, then the investment becomes worthwhile.

But, in the wider context how far would you expect to be able to take this.  At what point should oblivion arrive (whether in this world, or in some afterlife), at what time should we stop learning for if the answer is never, then will we some day posses infinite knowledge do you believe that such a scenario would be possible?

Is it not the nature of all things that they are in some way finite, that all that is, will someday not be.  Why should our lives, here or elsewhere, be any different?  Do you think that you would have an infinite life elsewhere, in another world?  And infinite learning, and infinite accomplishment?



George

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Offline 4getmenot

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #36 on: 04/08/2006 21:51:06 »
If death is forever or infinate and it is more than possible, why not learning?

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another_someone

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #37 on: 04/08/2006 22:45:18 »
quote:
Originally posted by 4getmenot
If death is forever or infinate and it is more than possible, why not learning?



because infinite learning would ultimately imply infinite knowledge, and would this not ultimately put you on par with that which is claimed of God?

As much as one may debate whether there would be one God, the outcome of your scenario would seem to indicate that we all become Gods.



George
« Last Edit: 04/08/2006 22:46:49 by another_someone »

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Offline Mjhavok

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #38 on: 05/08/2006 01:07:52 »
Who says the universe if infinite? Who says life is predestined at birth? Don't tell me you are talking about that popular book of fiction.

p.s. the carpenters son dies :-(
Steven
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Offline Mjhavok

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #39 on: 05/08/2006 03:41:35 »
Is this the real life, is this just fantasy. Caught in landslide, no escape from reality.
Steven
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Offline 4getmenot

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #40 on: 05/08/2006 06:16:00 »
Good point...."Is this life" perhaps this life is not the reality at all..people only seem to think that what they can see, touch, feel and think IS reality....we only use a part of our brains and are limited in doing so as to the real reality of life...there is so much we can not even fathom about thinking yet..

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another_someone

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #41 on: 05/08/2006 15:43:34 »
quote:
Originally posted by 4getmenot
Good point...."Is this life" perhaps this life is not the reality at all..people only seem to think that what they can see, touch, feel and think IS reality....we only use a part of our brains and are limited in doing so as to the real reality of life...there is so much we can not even fathom about thinking yet..



Ofcourse, the very notion that we have brains at all is an aspect of our perception, and if we cannot trust our perception, then how do we know that we have any kind of physical brain.

Clearly, the notion that 'I think, therefore I am' implies we have some mechanism for managing thoughts, but whether such a mechanism is a brain in any physical sense of the word cannot be known without placing trust in our senses in some way.



George

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Offline 4getmenot

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #42 on: 14/08/2006 05:28:01 »
our brain is another organ/muscle in our body, but not our essence or spirit...so i guess it would be what really is real...what we see and "think" with our brains or what we feel as in sight not with our eyes but rather our sences??

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Offline 4getmenot

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Re: Is it real or just your imagination?
« Reply #43 on: 20/08/2006 17:09:32 »
how can one thing be right if so many people see it differently?

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