[DonQuichotte (OP)]

You just can't resist breaking your promises, can you?

I can't rather resist the temptation,desire  and urge to make you realise the undeniable absurdity and falsehood of the materialist mainstream 'scientific world view " .

What extraordinary evidence has materialism been delivering for its extraordinary claims , regarding the nature of reality ?

You're the one claiming an 'immaterial something' extra; the burden of proof for that is on you.

No , it's exactly the other way around : the materialist false mainstream 'scientific world view " has been assuming that "all is matter , including the mind " thus : the burden of proof is yours to deliver thus : so, just try to answer that simple question then .

P.S.: My sincere and genuine apologies for having been rude to you , scientist : all the best .

[Ethos_]

I can't rather resist the temptation,desire  and urge to make you realise

Welcome back Don.............., The only way to make us realize anything is for you to present evidence, which to date, you have not!

You are the author of this thread and it is incumbent upon you to provide the evidence in support of your views, not for us to prove you wrong! If you ever expect any of us to agree with you, you'll need to provide some tangible evidence. And not just copied and pasted excerpts from spurious sources.

The reason material evidence is necessary is; None of us is able to read your, or for that matter, any one else's mind. You can't just declare that your evidence exists in your own mind, you must be able to share it with others and that takes tangible material evidence.

Can you at least understand that simple reasoning?

[Grimbo1]

Your wrong Don, you started the thread, its your theory
its down to you to prove it.

[alancalverd]

the materialist false mainstream 'scientific world view "

Sorry, Don, repeating this mantra doesn't give it meaning. It may make you happy to do so, but it's a waste of your talent. There is no "scientific world view". Science is a process, not a philosophy.

[Ethos_]

the materialist false mainstream 'scientific world view "

Sorry, Don, repeating this mantra doesn't give it meaning. It may make you happy to do so, but it's a waste of your talent. There is no "scientific world view". Science is a process, not a philosophy.

Absolutely Alan....., and the process demands sharable and repeatable evidence. And when I say sharable, that demands an ability to present evidence that can be tested. And to be tested, the evidence must be observable and distinguishable from its surroundings, whether material or not.

BTW, no scientist here has ever said that all evidence must be MATERIAL. But evidence must be repeatable and observable and can't just come from the idea of an abstract consciousness. Consciousness is a process enabled by the physical workings of the physical brain..........period.

Ask yourself one question.....................Is consciousness possible without a brain? I think your intelligent enough to know the answer Don!

[DonQuichotte (OP)]

I can't rather resist the temptation,desire  and urge to make you realise

Welcome back Don.............., The only way to make us realize anything is for you to present evidence, which to date, you have not!

You are the author of this thread and it is incumbent upon you to provide the evidence in support of your views, not for us to prove you wrong! If you ever expect any of us to agree with you, you'll need to provide some tangible evidence. And not just copied and pasted excerpts from spurious sources.

The reason material evidence is necessary is; None of us is able to read your, or for that matter, any one else's mind. You can't just declare that your evidence exists in your own mind, you must be able to share it with others and that takes tangible material evidence.

Can you at least understand that simple reasoning?

(There is , once again, plenty of evidence and arguments contained in my posted excerpts ,for everybody to see,not just speculations or opinions views,regarding the undeniable falsehood  and absurdity  of the materialist mainstream "scientific world view "  .)

Well,thanks, appreciate indeed :  just try to answer the simple question i did ask dlorde to address then :

The materialist mainstream "scientific world view " has been assuming , for so long now , that reality is just material or physical, including the mind: the 'scientific world view " has been taking that false assumption, or rather false materialist conception of nature for granted as an 'empirical fact " so far :
The burden of proof is yours to address then.............

In other words :

Has science ever proved the materialist "fact ", or rather the materialist core belief assumption to be "true ", regarding the nature of reality ?

Is the materialist "all is matter ,including the mind " mainstream 'scientific world view " 's version of reality an empirical fact then ? Is reality just material or physical as all sciences have been assuming it to be , since the 19th century at least ?

Can you   try to answer  just that ?

Best wishes : my sincere and genuine apologies to you ,and to the others here , i have been rude to .

Nice weekend to you all indeed , by the way ..........

[DonQuichotte (OP)]

Your wrong Don, you started the thread, its your theory
its down to you to prove it.

The burden of proof is all yours to address , since the materialist mainstream "scientific world view " has been assuming that "all is matter ,including the mind ", thanks to materialism, and hence the mind is in the brain , or the mind is just the product of brain activity .

My take on that is : materialism ,and hence its "scientific world view " are false , mainly because physics and chemistry alone or neurochemistry ...cannot account for consciousness as such .
So:
What extraordinary evidence the materialist mainstream 'scientific world view " has been delivering so far , for its extraordinary claims regarding the nature of reality then ? and hence for the "scientific fact " that the mind is in the brain, or the mind is just brain activity .

Try to answer just that , instead of sending the ball back to me .

Thanks, appreciate indeed .

All the best .

[DonQuichotte (OP)]

the materialist false mainstream 'scientific world view "

Sorry, Don, repeating this mantra doesn't give it meaning. It may make you happy to do so, but it's a waste of your talent. There is no "scientific world view". Science is a process, not a philosophy.

Well, ironically and paradoxically enough , the mainstream materialist "scientific world view " has been just the materialist false conception of nature , has been thus just the materialist world view , philosophy , ideology ..........through the materialist meta-paradigm in science .
So, it is an undeniable fact that all sciences for that matter have been assuming that reality is just material or physical = all is matter , including the mind, thanks to materialism ...

It's absurd to try to deny that fact .

Nice weekend .

[Ethos_]

Well,thanks, appreciate indeed :  just try to answer the simple question i did ask dlorde to address then :

As the author of this thread, it is incumbent upon you to offer any evidence, not for us to do so. All the evidence we understand suggests that you are wrong. And here is why:

To prove your position you must prove the existence of consciousness without a brain. If you can do that, you may be on to something. Can you do that Don....?

Here's your chance to deliver evidence, all you need to do is provide good evidence that consciousness can exist without the instrument of the brain. Go for it Don........ We're all waiting..................................

[DonQuichotte (OP)]

Will somebody here,please,  try to prove  the following "empirical fact " to be "true " ?:
I am not gonna be tired of repeating this same simple question over and over again, untill  i get an answer to that , hopefully :
According to the mainstream materialist "scientific world view " : "all is matter , including the mind" , and hence the mind is in the brain, or the mind is just brain activity = that's a "scientific fact " : try to prove the latter to be "true " as such then, since all sciences have been taking this 'scientific fact ",or rather this core materialist belief assumption ,regarding the nature of reality ,  for granted as an "empirical fact "  , for so long now, thanks to materialism thus ...

Thanks , appreciate indeed .

Nice weekend .

[Ethos_]

Will somebody here,please,  try to prove  the following "empirical fact " to be "true " ?:
I am not gonna be tired of repeating this same simple question over and over again, untill  i get an answer to that , hopefully :
According to the mainstream materialist "scientific world view " : "all is matter , including the mind" , and hence the mind is in the brain, or the mind is just brain activity = that's a "scientific fact " : try to prove the latter to be "true " as such then, since all sciences have been taking this 'scientific fact ",or rather this core materialist belief assumption ,regarding the nature of reality ,  for granted as an "empirical fact "  , for so long now, thanks to materialism thus ...

Thanks , appreciate indeed .

Nice weekend .

Evidently you're not as smart as I thought you were.

Who's thread is this anyway?

It's your thread Don....................You provide your evidence!

Can consciousness exist without the brain?

[DonQuichotte (OP)]

Well,thanks, appreciate indeed :  just try to answer the simple question i did ask dlorde to address then :

As the author of this thread, it is incumbent upon you to offer any evidence, not for us to do so. All the evidence we understand suggests that you are wrong. And here is why:

To prove your position you must prove the existence of consciousness without a brain. If you can do that, you may be on to something. Can you do that Don....?

Here's your chance to deliver evidence, all you need to do is provide good evidence that consciousness can exist without the instrument of the brain. Go for it Don........ We're all waiting..................................

Just try to answer the above mentioned and repeated simple question : is "all is matter ,including the mind " ? , the latter is  an  "empirical fact " : try to prove it to be as such then .

And of course consciousness and brain or body are inseparable ,in this life at least , and do have some sort of mutual correlations , interactions or whatever with each other .....What has that to do with anything ?...............

[Ethos_]

And of course consciousness and brain or body are inseparable ,in this life at least , and do have some sort of mutual correlations , interactions or whatever with each other .....What has that to do with anything ?...............

Because consciousness is brain dependent, and the brain is material, you can't have consciousness without the brain. Therefore, consciousness is material dependent. Now,.......argue about that!

[Ethos_]

I submit that Don just admitted that consciousness is MATERIAL dependent!!!!!!

[DonQuichotte (OP)]

Will somebody here,please,  try to prove  the following "empirical fact " to be "true " ?:
I am not gonna be tired of repeating this same simple question over and over again, untill  i get an answer to that , hopefully :
According to the mainstream materialist "scientific world view " : "all is matter , including the mind" , and hence the mind is in the brain, or the mind is just brain activity = that's a "scientific fact " : try to prove the latter to be "true " as such then, since all sciences have been taking this 'scientific fact ",or rather this core materialist belief assumption ,regarding the nature of reality ,  for granted as an "empirical fact "  , for so long now, thanks to materialism thus ...

Thanks , appreciate indeed .

Nice weekend .

Evidently you're not as smart as I thought you were.

Who's thread is this anyway?

It's your thread Don....................You provide your evidence!

Can consciousness exist without the brain?

See above .
I am challenging the current "scientific world view " ,and i say it is not only unscientific = unfalsifiable and false , but it has been also just the materialist false conception of nature .

Try to prove me wrong then .

Brain and mind are 2 totally different processes in any 1 given living organism = 1 ,and do thus have mutual interactions with each other , once again .

"The mind is in the brain, or the mind is just brain activity " is just an extension of the materialist 'all is matter ,including the mind " false conception of nature ,or false "scientific world view " ,once again .

Is that so hard to understand ?

[DonQuichotte (OP)]

And of course consciousness and brain or body are inseparable ,in this life at least , and do have some sort of mutual correlations , interactions or whatever with each other .....What has that to do with anything ?...............

Because consciousness is brain dependent, and the brain is material, you can't have consciousness without the brain. Therefore, consciousness is material dependent. Now,.......argue about that!

The fact that consciousness, in this life at least , is relatively brain dependent ,does that imply that consciousness is material or biological ,as the "scientific world view " has been assuming it to be  ,thanks to materialism thus ? Does that imply that the mind is in the brain or that the mind is just brain activity ?Obviously ...not .
So, just try to answer that simple question i have been asking all along ,but nobody here dares to try to face ...
Amazing.........

[Grimbo1]

Don you keep saying "in this life at least". You have religion then ?.
no wonder you cant see the wood for the trees.

[DonQuichotte (OP)]

If the mind is just brain activity ,absurd,  how come the mind has causal effect on matter , and hence on brain and body or brain activity as well ? : is that some sort of backward causation ? haha = the mind causing brain activity that has allegeldy caused it ...

Do your won will , feelings , emotions, desires , longings ,love .ambitions, beliefs .....not have causal effects on your brain activity and bodies ? How come then ? ,according to you.

[DonQuichotte (OP)]

Don you keep saying "in this life at least". You have religion then ?.
no wonder you cant see the wood for the trees.

Nevermind what i do happen to believe in ,that's neither my motivation nor my 'argument " in relation to trying to make you realise the undeniable falshood of the materialist mainstream 'scientific world view ",  i just do keep my own beliefs outside of science , in total contrast with materialism as a dogmatic unfalsifiable false secular religion in science that has been imposing itself as the "scientific world view ".
Just answer that simple and repeated question then, i have been asking then .

P.S.: All beliefs are ,per definition ,unfalsifiable = unscientific , but they are not all necessarily false , as materialism is .
But , fact is , materialism goes beyond science ,beyond its method ,beyond its realm and jurisdiction , by assuming that reality is just physical or material .
Worse : that false materialist world view has been the 'scientific world view " = all sciences have been materialist ,in the above mentioned sense thus , while science should be neither materialist nor otherwise .
Science should be metaphysically neutral thus = an utopia so far ...
Science must thus be liberated from materialism ,if science wanna be less dogmatic and more scientific ....at least .

[Grimbo1]

For science to be liberated from materialism you need to provide proof.
I am sure science would love a new branch, but science is not going to
accept you theory just on your faith in it .