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Quote from: DonQuichotte on 15/09/2013 16:57:09We were born that way : there is no reason to pretend to be modest about something you have no merit in , or something you had no say in , something you had no input in whatsoever............Nah! Nobody was ever born this hot. It takes gallons of beer and years of patient selfabuse to cultivate a mind and a physique like mine. To say nothing of the moustache
We were born that way : there is no reason to pretend to be modest about something you have no merit in , or something you had no say in , something you had no input in whatsoever............
Quote from: DonQuichotte link=topic=48746.msg418329#msg418329When you will be grown-up and mature enough , you will be able to acknowledge the fact that science , for example , covers only a tiny apparent side of reality , and that human reason, logic ....have also limits + there might be other levels of reality out there we have absolutely no "idea " about = can you a-priori exclude any possibility or probability like that ? QuoteNo, I cannot exclude that possibility, but without some means to detect those alternate realities, I have no way of distinguishing between something related to them which is true, and something that isn't true. But you're welcome to imagine any alternate reality you like
When you will be grown-up and mature enough , you will be able to acknowledge the fact that science , for example , covers only a tiny apparent side of reality , and that human reason, logic ....have also limits + there might be other levels of reality out there we have absolutely no "idea " about = can you a-priori exclude any possibility or probability like that ?
No, I cannot exclude that possibility, but without some means to detect those alternate realities, I have no way of distinguishing between something related to them which is true, and something that isn't true. But you're welcome to imagine any alternate reality you like
QuoteI don't think anyone has really tried to make you change your views. Some, myself included, tried to force you to define or expound on terms you use constantly in your arguments, to no avail. And I at times I did not see how your conclusions followed your premises, regardless of whether I agreed with either. It's the process in your reasoning that drives me nuts, not the outcome.
I don't think anyone has really tried to make you change your views. Some, myself included, tried to force you to define or expound on terms you use constantly in your arguments, to no avail. And I at times I did not see how your conclusions followed your premises, regardless of whether I agreed with either. It's the process in your reasoning that drives me nuts, not the outcome.
QuoteIf "science proper" refers to science that includes or takes into account supernatural objects or supernatural forces that cannot be studied by any materialist, physical process, you are the only one I know advocating for it.
If "science proper" refers to science that includes or takes into account supernatural objects or supernatural forces that cannot be studied by any materialist, physical process, you are the only one I know advocating for it.
QuoteI do know of controversial figures in science who challenge traditional explanations and suggest other models. Sheldrake comes to mind. He studied ESP and his "morphic resonance" theory claims that some kind of energy field directs the growth and development of living things. He does not, apparently, think differential gene expression can do the job. I think his theory is unlikely, as there doesn't seem to be any evidence for it. But even he does not describe it as an immaterial or supernatural process, he just says we haven't figured out a way yet to detect this field. Although he hasn't abandoned materialism, he is, never the less, faced with the same problem as yours - without anyway to detect, to measure, to obtain any information about his morphic field, it remains just an imaginary speculation as far as science is concerned.
I do know of controversial figures in science who challenge traditional explanations and suggest other models. Sheldrake comes to mind. He studied ESP and his "morphic resonance" theory claims that some kind of energy field directs the growth and development of living things. He does not, apparently, think differential gene expression can do the job. I think his theory is unlikely, as there doesn't seem to be any evidence for it. But even he does not describe it as an immaterial or supernatural process, he just says we haven't figured out a way yet to detect this field. Although he hasn't abandoned materialism, he is, never the less, faced with the same problem as yours - without anyway to detect, to measure, to obtain any information about his morphic field, it remains just an imaginary speculation as far as science is concerned.
Good work, folks! Thanks for keeping him busy and out of the real world.
I have developed some relative telepathic powers in my mind...
I searched for a great docu concerning the CIA and KGB psi projects telepathy during the cold war , i did not find it on youtube ,but i do have in my pc , concerning what was called remote viewing : the psychic trained ability of some people ,especially creative artists , employed by the CIA to spy on the enemy from a remote distance , a large distance in fact , via their minds = it is still a huge controversy in science , the latter seems to have no answers to .
Ok, i know it's extremely difficult , elusive , deceptive .... to differentiate between real supernatural or paranormal phenomena and simple illusions, delusions, fairy tales , myths ...science alone cannot really help us in doing just that .But, it takes hard work, life experiences, it takes flirting with death itself and looking it deep in the eye ....it takes blood sweat and tears , joy , rise and fall ,setbacks and breakthroughs ....to just be able to develop that 6th sense that makes one sharp alert and awake sober lucid enough to know , not just believe in, there are whole unimaginable dimentions and levels of reality out there our powerful developed mind can make us able to approach somehow , to some degree at least .
You might say, well, that’s different. He was con artist, not a scientist or philosopher sincerely seeking the truth. But deception or self deception takes many forms. Wanting to believe something, and wanting others to believe it, because it is more exciting, unusual, comforting, appeals to our egos as an individual or a species, and relieves our anxiety about mortality or the meaning of life and our sense of powerlessness, is a kind of deception, intentional or not. How one knows something, the kind of evidence and its verifiability and its transparency to others, is sometimes ones only defense against this.
You might say, well, that’s different. He was con artist, not a scientist or philosopher sincerely seeking the truth. But deception or self deception takes many forms. Wanting to believe something, and wanting others to believe it, because it is more exciting, unusual, comforting, appeals to our egos.....
Rather than rehash all the old debunking of precognition/premonition, here's a link that deals with most of that mentioned.
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 16/09/2013 18:53:24I have developed some relative telepathic powers in my mind...Easy enough to say, but can you demonstrate these telepathic powers, e.g. to us? so far we've seen no indication of any special powers or intellect.
QuoteI searched for a great docu concerning the CIA and KGB psi projects telepathy during the cold war , i did not find it on youtube ,but i do have in my pc , concerning what was called remote viewing : the psychic trained ability of some people ,especially creative artists , employed by the CIA to spy on the enemy from a remote distance , a large distance in fact , via their minds = it is still a huge controversy in science , the latter seems to have no answers to .The military remote viewing programs were shut down as 'too unreliable to be of any military value'. See Remote Viewing for more.
Quote from: dlorde on 16/09/2013 22:07:46Quote from: DonQuichotte on 16/09/2013 18:53:24I have developed some relative telepathic powers in my mind.....can you demonstrate these telepathic powers, e.g. to us? I have to demonstrate nothing to you , especially when we would consider the fact that you turned out to be a narrow-minded ossified dogmatic messianic materialistic irrational believer who happens to believe in magic = the "emergence " trick = that excludes you a-priori from any serious discussions regarding telepathy or any other paranormal phenomena for that matter .
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 16/09/2013 18:53:24I have developed some relative telepathic powers in my mind.....can you demonstrate these telepathic powers, e.g. to us?
They might have been continuing to conduct research on the matter , as a matter of secrecy , you are not allowed to know about .
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 17/09/2013 18:31:23Quote from: dlorde on 16/09/2013 22:07:46Quote from: DonQuichotte on 16/09/2013 18:53:24I have developed some relative telepathic powers in my mind.....can you demonstrate these telepathic powers, e.g. to us? I have to demonstrate nothing to you , especially when we would consider the fact that you turned out to be a narrow-minded ossified dogmatic messianic materialistic irrational believer who happens to believe in magic = the "emergence " trick = that excludes you a-priori from any serious discussions regarding telepathy or any other paranormal phenomena for that matter .I'll take that as a 'no'. So we apply Hitchen's Razor ("What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence").QuoteThey might have been continuing to conduct research on the matter , as a matter of secrecy , you are not allowed to know about .Sure, it's possible; but is it plausible that they're spending billions of dollars on surveillance satellites, spy planes, drones, and human assets just to cover up the success of their secret remote viewers? On the other hand, given the number of mistakes they make, they may still be trying it... BTW - Great rant in that last post!
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 16/09/2013 18:53:24Ok, i know it's extremely difficult , elusive , deceptive .... to differentiate between real supernatural or paranormal phenomena and simple illusions, delusions, fairy tales , myths ...science alone cannot really help us in doing just that .But, it takes hard work, life experiences, it takes flirting with death itself and looking it deep in the eye ....it takes blood sweat and tears , joy , rise and fall ,setbacks and breakthroughs ....to just be able to develop that 6th sense that makes one sharp alert and awake sober lucid enough to know , not just believe in, there are whole unimaginable dimentions and levels of reality out there our powerful developed mind can make us able to approach somehow , to some degree at least .Since you are fond of stories, I will share one with you. Of course we both know stories and analogies are not proof of anything, just illustrative, but I hope this will illustrate why how one knows something can be as important as what one knows.The was an internet scam in which a person would send out a large number of emails claiming to be able to predict the results of boxing matches based on inside information he had about the fighters. To prove his ability he would make a prediction about a boxing match that was taking place next week. To half of the recipients he would say boxer A would be the winner and the other half, Boxer B. If Boxer A won, he sent out another email to those for whom he had predicted Boxer A. To half of those, he said the winner of the next match would be Boxer C, and to the other half Boxer D. If Boxer D won, he emailed those for whom he predicted Boxer D and made another prediction -I’m sure you see where I am going with this. After a series of several amazing “correct” predictions, his final email recipients received an email about an upcoming fight in which the odds were ten to one against Boxer G, but he was quite sure Boxer G would win. If they wished, they could bet on it, or, since there wasn't much time, he would be happy to make the bet for them with his bookie, who was also giving an additional 2:1 odds on top. Just wire him $5,000. Hard to believe anyone would fall for this, but $100,000 on a $5,000 bet is a lot of money and he was right again and again! The scammer only needed one person to take the bait in order to walk away with an easy $5,000, one person who was over-impressed that this person had been so consistently right, without wondering why or how he knew what he claimed to know.You might say, well, that’s different. He was con artist, not a scientist or philosopher sincerely seeking the truth. But deception or self deception takes many forms. Wanting to believe something, and wanting others to believe it, because it is more exciting, unusual, comforting, appeals to our egos as an individual or a species, and relieves our anxiety about mortality or the meaning of life and our sense of powerlessness, is a kind of deception, intentional or not. How one knows something, the kind of evidence and its verifiability and its transparency to others, is sometimes ones only defense against this
he said true things about materialism as an ossified promissory dogmatic messianic religion in science,so .What don't you address just that then ?
[P]romissary materialism [is] a superstition without a rational foundation,” Eccles says. “[It] is simply a religious belief held by dogmatic materialists . . .who confuse their religion with their science. It has all the features of a messianic prophecy.”
He acknowledged that arrested brain development in childhood can lead to mental retardation, that strokes or blows to the head can abolish memory or consciousness, and that certain chemicals can change the quality of thought. But to consider this as proof that the brain actually makes consciousness, James said, is irrational.
Equating mind and brain is irrational, he says as listening to music on a radio, smashing the radio’s receiver, and thereby concluding that the radio was producing the music.
Nonlocal is merely a fancy word for infinite [no, it isn't] ...Nonlocal events are immediate; they require no travel time. They are unmediated; they require no energetic signal to “carry” them [nor can they carry information]. They are unmitigated; they do not become weaker with increasing distance. Nonlocal phenomena are omnipresent, everywhere at once. This means there is no necessity for them to go anywhere; they are already there. They are infinite in time as well, present at all moments, past present and future, meaning they are eternal.
P.S.: You will get no response from me from now on ...
What kindda silly "reasoning" is this then ? ..........You're telling a particular ordinary story humanity has been experiencing some perfectly natural forms or other of since day 1= no big deal = makes part of the human nature one should try to be alert of , should try to improve ,recognize as such ....Human deception and self-deceit are common knowledge since day 1 ,one must be aware of...