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Many religious scientists have attempted to reconcile science and religion, but I suspect Don Quixote's proposed"paradigm shift" is an attempt to turn the clock back to an essentially medieval view of reality in which materialist science infringes on God's prerogative to alter reality in any way He sees fit.
I'd write more cranky responses, but the Northern lights are going crazy here!
Question: Why can you never trust an atom?Because they make up everything!Hahahahaha.I crack myself up. Sorry, just a little materialist humor. And yes I stole that joke.
The Northern Lights have unfortunately dimmed a bit. So in the mean time, I've been searching for "science proper" on the internet, and strangely found nothing except for a question on a forum by someone named Shibboleth.Although my knowledge of Islam is quite limited, it doesn't seem that scientists working in traditionally Islamic countries are rabid anti-materialists. I think scientists working in Africa,Asia, the middle East, or South America, would not consider science, or empirically based, materialist scientific methodology, to be the domain of Eurocentric White devils trying to brain wash them or impose a false misconception of science upon them. The Renaissance in Europe was a long time ago, and many countries and ethnic groups have contributed to materialist scientific findings before and after, often at great personal threat to their safety by religious fundamentalists in their geographical area. The idea that materialism stems from Jesuit tradition is certainly questionable. The Jesuit tradition, as I understand it, (and I'm not Cathothic,) was simply that education had a civilizing effect on people which was overall beneficial . Some Catholic priests may have been more educated than the average person at the time; they knew Latin, and could read, they had time and income to think about science, but they pursued certain scientific findings at their own peril. But even in Europe, early scientists, who were not associated with the church, like Galileo, or amateur scientists like Leeuwenhoek who looked at semen under a microscope, risked their lives communicating their "materialist" observations to others. Undoubtably, scientists in Islamic countries encountered the same opposition. Many religious scientists have attempted to reconcile science and religion, but I suspect Don Quixote's proposed"paradigm shift" is an attempt to turn the clock back to an essentially medieval view of reality in which materialist science infringes on God's prerogative to alter reality in any way He sees fit.
My dear fellow, Don Q,You are casting your pearls before swine. I think you should write all this stuff up as a proper book and make it available on the Kindle where it can be read more comfortably and without being derailed repeatedly by other people with their ludicrous objections.
Quote from: cheryl j on 09/10/2013 06:03:50Question: Why can you never trust an atom?Because they make up everything!Hahahahaha.I crack myself up. Sorry, just a little materialist humor. And yes I stole that joke. I think everyone deserves that reward for reading this thread.
Extended Minds : Our experiences of our bodies are in our bodies. The feelings in my fingers are in my fingers,not in my head. Direct experience offers no support for the extraordinary claim that all experiencesare inside brains. Direct experience is not irrelevant to the nature of consciousness: it isconsciousness.
See the very certain Islamic origin of the scientific method itself , that did originate directly from the Qur'anic epistemology , i did open a whole topic about......The Islamic impact on western civilization was so far reaching , as Briffault said ,that above mentioned essay tried to prove to be true , the islamic impact thus on western civilization was so far reaching that there was no single aspect of western growth that could not be traced back to those islamic impacts .The Islamic impact on western civilization was in fact so far reaching that it did also originate the scientific method itself ,or science itself ..............Besides, western thought was just an extension of the original Islamic one , western thought that has been taking since its own materialist and other paths though .........Materialism as an Eurocentric ideology and false conception of nature , or as a primitive backward degenerate -form-of-christianity secular religion has been making you ,westerners , even dumber , despite all those huge advances of science proper at the level of matter or at the level of material physical and biological processes , materialism had/has absolutely nothing to do with those scientific advances .............Materialism in all sciences , in art , literature ...that has been exported to the rest of the world ,thanks to western global domination and power ,is totally alien to those non-western cultures, societies .............
Wow... I hope that was just an embarrassing outburst, not a public breakdown.
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 09/10/2013 17:53:31See the very certain Islamic origin of the scientific method itself , that did originate directly from the Qur'anic epistemology , i did open a whole topic about......The Islamic impact on western civilization was so far reaching , as Briffault said ,that above mentioned essay tried to prove to be true , the islamic impact thus on western civilization was so far reaching that there was no single aspect of western growth that could not be traced back to those islamic impacts .The Islamic impact on western civilization was in fact so far reaching that it did also originate the scientific method itself ,or science itself ..............Besides, western thought was just an extension of the original Islamic one , western thought that has been taking since its own materialist and other paths though .........Materialism as an Eurocentric ideology and false conception of nature , or as a primitive backward degenerate -form-of-christianity secular religion has been making you ,westerners , even dumber , despite all those huge advances of science proper at the level of matter or at the level of material physical and biological processes , materialism had/has absolutely nothing to do with those scientific advances .............Materialism in all sciences , in art , literature ...that has been exported to the rest of the world ,thanks to western global domination and power ,is totally alien to those non-western cultures, societies ............. Congratulations to you and your people for inventing science. I've never been tempted to brag about my racial heritage; it just seems to get Germans into all sorts of trouble when they start doing that, and then no one wants to sit next to them at a dinner parties.
Quote from: cheryl j on 10/10/2013 05:03:25... I've never been tempted to brag about my racial heritage; it just seems to get Germans into all sorts of trouble when they start doing that, and then no one wants to sit next to them at a dinner parties.... your German or rather nazi "comparison " or analogy are extremely insulting , disgusting and tasteless + incorrect .Thanks a lot for nothing .I was just trying to respond to that post of yours , in order to correct your obvious Eurocentric ignorance ,stereotypes, brainwash , prejudice ...on the subject ...that's all .
... I've never been tempted to brag about my racial heritage; it just seems to get Germans into all sorts of trouble when they start doing that, and then no one wants to sit next to them at a dinner parties.
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 08/10/2013 18:36:06Extended Minds : Our experiences of our bodies are in our bodies. The feelings in my fingers are in my fingers,not in my head. Direct experience offers no support for the extraordinary claim that all experiencesare inside brains. Direct experience is not irrelevant to the nature of consciousness: it isconsciousness.Well, I'm glad he's not my doctor, anyway. If feeling is in the fingers and not in the brain, why would damage to the brachial nerve plexus in the shoulder, (or a stroke) cause me to lose sensation or movement in my hand? My fingers are just fine! They weren't damaged at all. How would one use morphic fields to explain why bright lights or plucking an eyebrow sometimes makes people sneeze? If you don't know that the branching trigeminal cranial nerve receives information from the eyes, nose and upper brow area, and the brain sometimes misinterprets information coming from one as actually coming from another area, it makes no sense. Perception and the experience of sensation is not in the fingers (or the nose in the example above) it's in the brain. Amputees experience phantom limbs. They experience pain, itchiness, and other sensations from a limb that clearly isn't there. (Perhaps their morphic field is itchy.) Neurologists believe that over time, the part of the brain that used to control the missing arm starts to be utilized for other body parts, and curiously, patients with phantom limb pain or itchiness can often get relief by rubbing their faces, which makes sense since the region devoted to the face is right next door in the somatosensory cortex.There's a fun experiment called the rubber hand experiment. The participant's real hand is hidden from their sight and replaced with a rubber hand. The experimenter takes two paint brushes and gently strokes the rubber hand and the hidden hand in synchrony. Participants report a bizarre feeling that rubber hand is their hand, even though rationally, they are well aware it's fake. And if the experimenter threatens the rubber hand, with say a sharp knife, or whacks it with a hammer, they reflexively jump or jerk their own hand, even though it was never in any danger. Another tactile illusion (called the thermal grill illusion) involves temperature receptors in the skin. One kind of temperature receptor responds to cold, 10-30 degrees C. Another responds to warm temperatures, between 30 and 45 degrees C. Both sets respond to scalding hot temperatures. If you take a kitchen fork and place it in cool water, and another in warm water for several minutes, and intertwine the tines of the warm and cool forks and place them against your skin, it creates an uncomfortable burning sensation, since usually that is the only time those receptors fire together. (That's also why your ears burn and itch when you come into a warm house on a cold day)So what? Well, Sheldrake says direct experience is everything, we should always trust it, and yet it would appear that our consciousness can be fooled rather easily. It's one thing to ask questions about the "hard problem" of the subjective feeling of consciousness, the unified sense of self, but Sheldrake sounds like he's denying pretty much everything in basic, first year anatomy and physiology book.
ps. I'd tell you some more chemistry jokes, but I only do that periodically. Anyway, the best ones argon.
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 10/10/2013 17:50:03Quote from: cheryl j on 10/10/2013 05:03:25... I've never been tempted to brag about my racial heritage; it just seems to get Germans into all sorts of trouble when they start doing that, and then no one wants to sit next to them at a dinner parties.... your German or rather nazi "comparison " or analogy are extremely insulting , disgusting and tasteless + incorrect .Thanks a lot for nothing .I was just trying to respond to that post of yours , in order to correct your obvious Eurocentric ignorance ,stereotypes, brainwash , prejudice ...on the subject ...that's all .Wow, way to miss the point, Don! So keen to take offence and Godwin the thread... maybe you should try reading Cheryl's post again, for comprehension.