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What do you mean i came out ? Is the immaterial the realm of science then ? come on .
The reality is that most people hardly ever change their mind about anything that matters to them because they're only interested in taking up those ideas that agree with what they already believe while they reject the rest. It doesn't matter how much you prove them wrong, they will resolutely refuse to see it. It happens in every field and at every level, and because this phenomenon is something I study (Natural General Intelligence and how it goes wrong), I'm still skim-reading this thread, but there's no way I'll be dragged back into wasting any more time writing long posts for it.
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 16/10/2013 19:16:50What do you mean i came out ? Is the immaterial the realm of science then ? come on .No, it's not. But that was what you had been saying for about 23 pages. Do I have to go back and show you all the quotes? So there's really nothing left to discuss at this point. Here's one last joke though:Ironically, the God particle still can't explain why the Catholic Church has mass.
Do not be lazy : take a dictionary and look for the word "existential " .I will give you the following obvious hint :In his "Selfish Gene " , lunatic Dawkins quotes some materialist scientist saying :or in words to that same effect at least :"...Darwin's theory of evolution is the only valid answer to our existential question .All pre-Darwinian attempts to answer just that were /are not only worthless , but they must be totally dicarded as well "
Some years past: characters: DC: Dan Coyote; RM: Reasonable ManDC: There is no doubt - materialism is a false (and heretical) doctrine!RM: Why think you so?DC: Why? Sir, it cannot explain flames; is that not reason enough? RM: Some say that flames are the volatile fluid phlogiston, contained within the burning materials, and released by combustion thereof. DC: Phlogiston? Pah! Mere alchemy. It is inconceivable; no material force can explain that hot, bright, ephemeral, animated phenomenon - that form akin to life itself; it is obvious the explanation lies not with mundane materialism. No; it is certain: flames are caused by dragons. RM: But I see no dragons... DC: They are dragons of a world beyond. They remain forever beyond our reach, outside our ken, outwith alchemy's domain, commanded only by God.RM: How then can we know of them?CD: 'Tis obvious; for there is extraordinary flame, and upon this fact materialism says nothing and does remain silent; and dragons do breathe flame. Surely therefore, dragons. Where are your wits? RM: Er, As you will... methinks a continuing pursuit of alchemy, poor though it is, has more prospect - for the pursuit of that which is beyond pursuit is a surely a fool's errand - and like the apprentice dispatched for a 'long weight', we should have a long wait before we did get satisfaction.CD: Hah! as I thought! fools thou art which cannot see the invisible, for 'tis there before your unseeing eyes... etc.Exit, foam-flecked, gesticulating.
QuoteDo not be lazy : take a dictionary and look for the word "existential " .I will give you the following obvious hint :In his "Selfish Gene " , lunatic Dawkins quotes some materialist scientist saying :or in words to that same effect at least :"...Darwin's theory of evolution is the only valid answer to our existential question .All pre-Darwinian attempts to answer just that were /are not only worthless , but they must be totally dicarded as well "Sorry, chum, quoting somebody else's answer is not the same as asking the question.Here's my answer to the most important question I can think of: 4.Now, to quote you, don't be lazy, go and look up the question. I have a strong suspicion that you don't know what the "existential question" is either.
Chum ? Deal ?
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 17/10/2013 17:25:37Chum ? Deal ?I ask the questions here. You simply refuse to answer them
Dear folks :I will tell you a story that will , hopefully , clarify or explain how humanity got stuck in this current materialist predicament in science and elsewhere , as follows :via this "caricature " of those historic cultural intellectual social economic political ...Eurocentric events : Once upon a time , there was a barbaric ignorant superstitious medieval Europe where the one and only existing authority and ultimate source of knowledge was personified by the catholic church only , anyone who would have dared to challenge the church's ultimate authority would have been branded as a heretic , would get put to death , imprisoned , banned ....burned alive as a result ,as Galileo and many others were literally burned alive to death , just for challenging some of the dogmas of the church ..
...As a scientist , you should at leat try to be relatively objective fair honest unbiased , as much as possible though , even though objectivity is a myth , even at the level of exact sciences, let alone elsewhere .
Did science ever prove the "fact ", or rather the materialist belief assumption, to be "true " that the universe or reality are exclusively material ? Absolutely not , never , ever
... how can science ever go beyond its material realm for that matter, science's material realm that's not what all there is out there , obviously .
All beliefs , the secular and the religious ones alike , should be kept outside of science ,and outside of the jurisdiction of science ...Is that so difficult to understand ?
....Materialists , obviously , think that their own materialist version of evolution , or their belief materialist misinterpretation of Darwin's exclusively biological physical scientific theory of evolution...
The existential question means : who are we ,as human beings , where do we come from , how did we come to exist , in the first place to begin with ...how did we get here , on earth ...
Once upon a time , there was a barbaric ignorant superstitious medieval Europe where the one and only existing authority and ultimate source of knowledge was personified by the catholic church only , anyone who would have dared to challenge the church's ultimate authority would have been branded as a heretic , would get put to death , imprisoned , banned ....burned alive as a result
QuoteThe existential question means : who are we ,as human beings , where do we come from , how did we come to exist , in the first place to begin with ...how did we get here , on earth ...To which the answer is: we are naked apes; we evolved and diverged from other apes in east Africa; and as yet we haven't traced our ancestry back to the first living cell or been able to replicate biogenesis, but we've only been unravelling the puzzle for a few years whereas nature has been complicating it for ever, so don't expect too much progress too soon - and the fog of mysticism promulgated by religious parasites hasn't helped.
The honest scientific answer to many questions is "I don't know - yet." Compare that with the dishonest religious answers "You can't possibly know" or "It was all done by a man with a beard in the sky, who you can't see but I know exists, for reasons that only he can comprehend. But because I know he exists, I have authority over your behaviour" and you will see why I have a deep disdain for mysticism, faith, and all that crap.
QuoteOnce upon a time , there was a barbaric ignorant superstitious medieval Europe where the one and only existing authority and ultimate source of knowledge was personified by the catholic church only , anyone who would have dared to challenge the church's ultimate authority would have been branded as a heretic , would get put to death , imprisoned , banned ....burned alive as a resultand just this week the government of Malaysia has decreed that only muslims may use the word Allah. I'm not sure what the penalty is for other people saying or writing it, but plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose in the world of barbaric ignorant superstition.
...I think that the exclusively material side of evolution represented by the scientific Darwin's exclusively biological physical material theory of evolution , when Darwin's scientific material (Do not confuse material with materialism ) theory of evolution thus does not cross the boundaries of the material realm and jurisdiction of science at leat , can tell us only about the material side of evolution though ....relatively speaking then , relatively speaking , simply because there is still a lot to be known and discovered about all those missing links and gaps Darwin's scientific exclusively biological material physical theory of evolution and all its scientific post-Darwin updates up untill now cannot yet answer yet ....Second : Do not confuse the materialist version of evolution = the materialist belief assumption -misinterpretation of evolution , with Darwin's scientific exclusively biological physical theory of evolution ,