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Do you exclude a-priori any non-physical forms of causation ?
Do you deny the fact that the mind of the observer does affect the observed .?
And how can the "physical " mind "that's " in the brain , the mental "that's just physics and chemistry" thus , be able to tell us anything reliable about physics and chemistry = circular "reasoning " : the observed does imply the mental of the observer that's observing it , does it not ?
instead of trying to play the silly wise girl, why don't you enlighten us about how physics and chemistry alone can explain "everything = nothing " then,while missing the mental side of reality , genius .
QuoteQuote from: cheryl j on 23/11/2013 20:37:50Quote from: DonQuichotte on 23/11/2013 20:05:31Answer my question .How do those acquired traits , due to famine, war traumas , holocaust, tragic events ...get passed on to the next generations, and beyond ?Because those extreme and long lasting events have physiological effects on the human body, effects like lack of nutrition, exposure to the elements, injury and inflammation, chronic exposure to stress hormones like cortisol. It doesn't mean a memory of the events of WWII become encoded in the genes.What about the much more important implications of all that : the psychological mental implications , genius ?Gotta go, ciao ,think about that : the psychological or mental that are irreducible to the physical : how did those mental and psychological environmental implications and traits get passed on to the next generations and beyond then ?
Quote from: cheryl j on 23/11/2013 20:37:50Quote from: DonQuichotte on 23/11/2013 20:05:31Answer my question .How do those acquired traits , due to famine, war traumas , holocaust, tragic events ...get passed on to the next generations, and beyond ?Because those extreme and long lasting events have physiological effects on the human body, effects like lack of nutrition, exposure to the elements, injury and inflammation, chronic exposure to stress hormones like cortisol. It doesn't mean a memory of the events of WWII become encoded in the genes.
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 23/11/2013 20:05:31Answer my question .How do those acquired traits , due to famine, war traumas , holocaust, tragic events ...get passed on to the next generations, and beyond ?Because those extreme and long lasting events have physiological effects on the human body, effects like lack of nutrition, exposure to the elements, injury and inflammation, chronic exposure to stress hormones like cortisol. It doesn't mean a memory of the events of WWII become encoded in the genes.
Answer my question .How do those acquired traits , due to famine, war traumas , holocaust, tragic events ...get passed on to the next generations, and beyond ?
... What's with the "playing the silly wise girl" comments?
Quote from: cheryl j on 23/11/2013 21:05:22... What's with the "playing the silly wise girl" comments? That's just more of DonQ's inflammatory troll-tactics, e.g. ... http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=48746.msg424755#msg424755
The findings in that video are against the materialist mechanistic orthodox neo-Darwinian "scientific world view " , i guess, , that's why they are scientific "heresy " .
Watch the video then .
What's with the "playing the silly wise girl" comments?
Is heredity exclusively material genetical ?
My vote, if I had one, would be to ban such behavior. How many here at NSF would agree to this proposition?
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 23/11/2013 20:47:16Is heredity exclusively material genetical ? Only you know what you mean by that...
Quote from: cheryl j on 23/11/2013 21:05:22What's with the "playing the silly wise girl" comments? It's an ad-hominem fallacy, a red-herring intended to delvaue your arguments by spurious or insulting characterisation. Where I come from, this is the hallmark of 'a nasty piece of work'.
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 23/11/2013 20:41:59The findings in that video are against the materialist mechanistic orthodox neo-Darwinian "scientific world view " , i guess, , that's why they are scientific "heresy " .Not really. There certainly was a mainstream view at one time that the life experiences of an individual could not influence his/her heritable traits & characteristics because heritable traits are determined by DNA and it was thought DNA could not be modified this way. When evidence of mechanisms for the control of gene expression were discovered outside of DNA itself, the mainstream view changed; another layer of complexity was investigated. This is how science works; knowledge is provisional. There is no dogmatic materialist mechanistic orthodox neo-Darwinian "scientific world view ", just the determination to stay with the best current model until new evidence gives good reason to replace or extend it. In this case the model was extended.
QuoteWatch the video then .I watched it when it was released 4 years ago on BBC 2. 'Horizon' has always been my favourite science program, although it's quality is patchy these days.
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 23/11/2013 20:21:19Do you exclude a-priori any non-physical forms of causation ? No, because that was never my argument to begin with. Again, if you require science to prove the nonexistence of things for which it has no evidence, you are requiring it to prove an infinite number of propositions an infinite number of times. And I didn't check today, either, for a rhinoceros in my basement.
QuoteDo you deny the fact that the mind of the observer does affect the observed .? I agree with dlorde's past posts about your interpretation of those physics experiments.
QuoteAnd how can the "physical " mind "that's " in the brain , the mental "that's just physics and chemistry" thus , be able to tell us anything reliable about physics and chemistry = circular "reasoning " : the observed does imply the mental of the observer that's observing it , does it not ?If you want to label some thing "the observed," it implies an observer. But I wouldn't agree that nothing existed before human beings were around to observe it.
Quote instead of trying to play the silly wise girl, why don't you enlighten us about how physics and chemistry alone can explain "everything = nothing " then,while missing the mental side of reality , genius .That was never my position. But I have explained why I think your concept of the immaterial is fundamentally irrational. see #875.
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 23/11/2013 20:47:16QuoteQuote from: cheryl j on 23/11/2013 20:37:50Quote from: DonQuichotte on 23/11/2013 20:05:31Answer my question .How do those acquired traits , due to famine, war traumas , holocaust, tragic events ...get passed on to the next generations, and beyond ?Because those extreme and long lasting events have physiological effects on the human body, effects like lack of nutrition, exposure to the elements, injury and inflammation, chronic exposure to stress hormones like cortisol. It doesn't mean a memory of the events of WWII become encoded in the genes.What about the much more important implications of all that : the psychological mental implications , genius ?Gotta go, ciao ,think about that : the psychological or mental that are irreducible to the physical : how did those mental and psychological environmental implications and traits get passed on to the next generations and beyond then ? You'll have to be a little more specific about what those "mental psychological environmental implications and traits'' are in order for me to answer, unless you want a response that is as vague and ambiguous as the question. Which specific traits are you referring to?
... it'pretty logical that the psychcological or mental acquired traits or adaptations might get inherited in their turn somehow
Quote from: dlorde on 24/11/2013 18:36:29Quote from: DonQuichotte on 24/11/2013 16:39:21... it'pretty logical that the psychcological or mental acquired traits or adaptations might get inherited in their turn somehowOnly if such psychological or mental acquired traits or adaptations are a result of heritable changes in gene expression.
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 24/11/2013 16:39:21... it'pretty logical that the psychcological or mental acquired traits or adaptations might get inherited in their turn somehowOnly if such psychological or mental acquired traits or adaptations are a result of heritable changes in gene expression.
... we are all humans , all too human, as Nietzsche used to say
Friedrich Nietzsche regularly used chloral hydrate in the years leading up to his nervous breakdown, according to Lou Salome and other associates. Whether the drug contributed to his insanity is a point of controversy
"... for me probably the first jolt out of the belief that materialism could explain everything was taking LSD ... some acid trips I had ..."
... censorship , banning ...