[Bonaparte (OP)]

That, as it requires a more complex 'theory of mind' than dogs are known for...

The whole point of the post in 15 words, I wish I had thought of it

[Bonaparte (OP)]

I acquiesce

The important thing is whether you are persuaded by our arguments or not.

well...no to be honest because even when the dog swings the thing high, it always goes behind his head. When the little dog gets hit is the only time it swings in front of his head, a radical change in polarization, which to me is an important difference.

So there is still uncertainty in my mind.

I have deleted the link from my above post as it is no longer required for the discussion.

I would like the 5 frame gif to stay though because it shows a 30kg, six-year-old male, non-desexed, labrador/staffordshire bull terrier cross (who fears nothing but the vet), preparing to submit and appease a 3kg, 12-year-old, sterilised female chihuahua - which I think is interesting in itself.

[Bonaparte (OP)]

Domestic dog reacting to imagined threat.

This is my favorite photo of my dog at the moment. I call it:

"stimulus/response - stimulus/response - /response.....oh....wait a sec"

Thanks guys, this is a great site and your radio show is great as well.

This will be my last post but if anybody out there reads this and would like to discuss it, please post the below picture, with a circle around the location of the stimulus (cause) for that response (effect).

Thanks again everybody.

I have left what I hope will be an interesting and amusing poll for your members and guests.

[Bonaparte (OP)]

Oh sorry guys, I see from the Youtube view reports that you haven't looked at the slow motion vid:

Here is a brief rundown of what happens.

http://www.labradaffy.eu.pn/analysis.pdf [nofollow]

[dlorde]

Here is a brief rundown of what happens.

It's more your interpretation of what happens.

Repetition doesn't make it any more plausible.

I fear you may have an unhealthy obsession with this unremarkable event

p.s. your poll question and answers are loaded (i.e. not unbiased). I disagree with the premise and also would select 'I am probably misinterpreting some or all of the body language of the dogs' if it was an available option.

[Bonaparte (OP)]

Here is a brief rundown of what happens.

p.s. your poll question and answers are loaded (i.e. not unbiased). I disagree with the premise and also would select 'I am probably misinterpreting some or all of the body language of the dogs' if it was an available option.

Yes it is...option 5

Critical analysis is really only useful after careful observation.

Is there a dog behavior expert reading this who can disagree with the analysis in the pdf file?

no, there isn't....why?........because it is correct!

"...I fear you may have an unhealthy obsession with this unremarkable event " ?
attacking the poster...I fear you are losing this chess game my friend

[Bonaparte (OP)]

Please let me explain.

My location precludes discussion with intelligent rational thinkers.

I have observed something which I consider not in the least trivial and after much analysis and observation have reached certain conclusions.

But I need to confirm these conclusions, so I come to this site because I know you are young, keen scientists who I had hoped might recognise that there was actually something rather unusual here.

The hierarchical structure of a small canine pack has been altered without so much as a look. Yes to me that is interesting. I would rather be told exactly what it is I have mis-interpreted and why then simply been told "poppycock" because I can go to the nearest petrol station and get that.

[dlorde]

But I need to confirm these conclusions, so I come to this site because I know you are young, keen scientists who I had hoped might recognise that there was actually something rather unusual here.

Sadly, I'm no longer a young, keen scientist - but sometimes experience trumps youth and enthusiasm.

I would rather be told exactly what it is I have mis-interpreted and why then simply been told "poppycock" because I can go to the nearest petrol station and get that.

Why don't you find a qualified and experienced researcher into canine or animal behaviour (I'd avoid people calling themselves animal psychologists), and ask their opinion? They should be able to give informed opinion. If you've really discovered something extraordinary, the world should be told; if you haven't, you should be told.

I anticipate three possibilities, in order of likelihood:

1. You've probably misinterpreted the behaviour.
2. Your interpretation is plausible but not a novel observation.
3. Your interpretation is plausible and entirely novel; you've made a significant contribution to the field.

Another online forum where there may be more relevant and well-informed experts (I know there are working vets, and probably animal behaviourists) is the JREF (James Randi Educational Forums) Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology forum.

Good luck; be prepared for disappointment.

[Bonaparte (OP)]

Why don't you find a qualified and experienced researcher into canine or animal behaviour (I'd avoid people calling themselves animal psychologists), and ask their opinion? They should be able to give informed opinion. If you've really discovered something extraordinary, the world should be told........

That's why I'm here.

There is nothing more annoying is there, then a person with a new idea who knows he is right?

[dlorde]

That's why I'm here.

I think you'll have a better chance of finding appropriate expertise on the JREF forum I linked to above.

[Bonaparte (OP)]

I realize you haven't asked, so cannot know but, I actually am an expert dog behaviorist.

I am here to consult scientists, pointless, I'm gone. Bye.

[dlorde]

I realize you haven't asked, so cannot know but, I actually am an expert dog behaviorist.

Really? so what did your expert colleagues and the various specialists you know say, before you posted on this public general science forum...?

I am here to consult scientists, pointless, I'm gone. Bye.

OK, you've done that. Bye. I'm sure you'll be able to find someone out there to confirm your hypothesis.

How things have changed since this:

Thanks for taking the time to examine this, your opinion is valuable to me.

[Bonaparte (OP)]

Really? so what did your expert colleagues and the various specialists you know say...

Their opinion to date can be viewed in the poll results.

Sometimes the simplest explanation - although it seems the unlikeliest - is the correct one.

Holy quacking duck it's looking more and more like option one!

[dlorde]

Holy quacking duck it's looking more and more like option one!

Now to establish whether the action was intentional/deliberate...

[Bonaparte (OP)]

exactly my friend 

Perhaps my love of dogs since early childhood – a long time ago now, has borne fruit and, combined with blind luck to provide me an opportunity to give something back to these noble beings, who of all Earth’s creatures, must be her most generous gift to humankind.