What are the consequences of being sprayed with barium and aluminium?

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Offline tkadm30

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Chemtrails are imaginary " highly dispersed aerosols.".

Only in your disillusionary world.

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Offline Bored chemist

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Chemtrails are imaginary " highly dispersed aerosols.".

Only in your disillusionary world.
So, still no actual evidence then?
Let us know if anything changes.
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Offline tkadm30

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The truth is incontrovertible.

Look up "incontrovertible" in a dictionary.
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Offline tkadm30

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Do you believe I hallucinated this?

« Last Edit: 07/08/2016 11:57:48 by tkadm30 »
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Offline Bored chemist

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I know what the word means- it means beyond dispute.
Whereas the evidence you have supplied is non existent.
There's a big difference.
I remind you that you earlier on in this thread pointed out that there's a difference between contrails (as in that picture) and chemtrails (as in the figment of your imagination).


So, no actual evidence. Why don't you go away and not come back until you have some evidence?
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Offline tkadm30

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I remind you that you earlier on in this thread pointed out that there's a difference between contrails (as in that picture) and chemtrails (as in the figment of your imagination).

This is not a contrail. Educate yourself or stop spreading disinformation. This picture was taken by me as a photographic evidence of clandestine geoengineering activity.
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Offline tkadm30

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The bliss of ignorance is deeper in the region of tyranny.

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Offline Bored chemist

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I remind you that you earlier on in this thread pointed out that there's a difference between contrails (as in that picture) and chemtrails (as in the figment of your imagination).

This is not a contrail. Educate yourself or stop spreading disinformation. This picture was taken by me as a photographic evidence of clandestine geoengineering activity.
And there is no way to distinguish it from a picture of a contrail (you already demonstrated that earlier) and thus it is not evidence of the existence of chemtrails.
Stop calling the truth "disinformation".
The link you posted says this
"This article has been retracted. Please follow the link to the full retraction notice for details."
So it's obviously not evidence either.
However, one of the comments on it speaks volumes
"On 4-9-2015, after the retraction of Herndon's paper in IJPREH, I sent him and the IJPREH editor citations of previous research showing that the elements he was finding in rainwater were historically found in comparable amounts by numerous studies (ie. Warneck, 1999), some dating back to Antarctic ice cores 183 years old. Herndon was made aware of the ordinary components of tropospheric aerosols yet again ignored them in this paper. Anyone wishing to see that correspondence may ask me for a copy. So, my esteemed alumnus Dr. Herndon did not neglect this out of ignorance but rather by will."
It shows that your hero is wilfully ignoring the fact that dust inthe air looked pretty much the same 183 years ago and that's certainly not man-made "chemtrails".

So the person on whose reports you base your claim is known not to tell the truth.


Why don't you go away and stay away unless you can actually find evidence.
« Last Edit: 07/08/2016 15:48:45 by Bored chemist »
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Offline tkadm30

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And there is no way to distinguish it from a picture of a contrail (you already demonstrated that earlier) and thus it is not evidence of the existence of chemtrails.

No. You're making the wrong assertion that I cannot distinguish a real cirrus cloud from a chemtrail. This photographic evidence clearly demonstrate that a plane is releasing aerosols which will alter cloud composition. 
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Offline Bored chemist

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There is no way to tell these "chemtrails" from contrails. They look identical.
Even you got muddled (go back + check- you will see that I pointed out why you were wrong- it's do do with being able to see the end of something that you claim "persists".)

If you say that you can tell- it's very simple- all you have to do is explain how.
Until then once again, you have no evidence.
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Offline tkadm30

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There is no way to tell these "chemtrails" from contrails. They look identical.
Even you got muddled (go back + check- you will see that I pointed out why you were wrong- it's do do with being able to see the end of something that you claim "persists".)

If you say that you can tell- it's very simple- all you have to do is explain how.
Until then once again, you have no evidence.

1. A water vapor contrail don't look identical to a chemtrail.
2. The retraction have zero scientific value.
3. Contrails don't create artificial clouds.
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Offline Bored chemist

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1 If you say that you can tell- it's very simple- all you have to do is explain how.

2 Yes it does-particularly when it's backed up by a clear reason; the fact that the same elements have been found in old ice cores.

3 Nobody said they did.

Still got no evidence h\ve you?
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Offline tkadm30

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1 If you say that you can tell- it's very simple- all you have to do is explain how.

A contrail is invisible. It doesn't create a (persistent) thick white plume. The thick white plume is caused by condensation of the aerosol.

Quote from: Bored chemist
2 Yes it does-particularly when it's backed up by a clear reason; the fact that the same elements have been found in old ice cores.

Sadly I don't find the link to support this hypothesis.

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Offline jeffreyH

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Au contraire monsieur.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail

Why not try being a grown up and stop all this nonsense.

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Offline tkadm30

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail

This proves nothing except the possible implications of Wikipedia in the public deception of clandestine geoengineering activity. Nothing new here. We all know Wikipedia neutrality is contestable.
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Offline jeffreyH

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So everyone is plotting? That makes it a conspiracy with hundreds if not thousands of participants. No wonder they were able to keep it secret! Your logic is faultless hooray! We have a hero in our midst.

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Offline tkadm30

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So everyone is plotting? That makes it a conspiracy with hundreds if not thousands of participants. No wonder they were able to keep it secret! Your logic is faultless hooray! We have a hero in our midst.

No. It just means a minority of people are implicated in this illegal criminal activity. Your logic is distressfull.

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Offline Bored chemist

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1 If you say that you can tell- it's very simple- all you have to do is explain how.

A contrail is invisible. It doesn't create a (persistent) thick white plume. The thick white plume is caused by condensation of the aerosol.


Seriously?
You think a condensation trail (i.e. a con trail) isn't caused by condensation.
The thick white plume is an aerosol.
You don't even seem to know what the words mean.
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Offline tkadm30

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Seriously?
You think a condensation trail (i.e. a con trail) isn't caused by condensation.
The thick white plume is an aerosol.
You don't even seem to know what the words mean.

Nice disinformation. I never said a contrail wasn't caused by condensation. I said that an aerosol could creates the "thick white plume". Contrails don't create artificial clouds.
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Offline Bored chemist

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A contrail is invisible.

Ok so people decided- "I know- we can (for no valid reason) start putting coal ash into the wake of aircraft, people won't notice because it will look just like something that's invisible."

And "It doesn't create a (persistent) thick white plume. The thick white plume is caused by condensation of the aerosol. "
OK, so what you are saying is that the chemtrail is thick + white and caused by condensation.
How do you explain (in much the same way I described above) how that would be anything other than "pretty damned obvious"?

Your whole "you can tell them apart by looking" idea falls flat at that point.

You said chemtrails are persistent- yet you labelled something that's clearly not persistent (you could see the start + end) as being a chemtrail.

None of your story makes sense.
If chemtrails don't look like contrails then people would have spotted them when they first appeared.
Nobody did.
If, on other hand, they do look the same then there's no way you can claim from a photograph that something is a chemtrail.

You have yet to come up with a sensible reason for them.
if "THEY" wanted to increase cloud cover it would be easy- just cut back on inspections of sulphur  dioxide removal equipment in power stations.
Cheap simple and effective.
You have yet to show the "nozzles" you talked about .
You don't understand that coal ash in air is inevitable given that there are damned great chimneys whose job is to disperse things like coal ash into the air. You also fail to understand that coal ash doesn't look very different from run-of-the-mill dirt.
You haven'e explained how they get the dust into the planes, nor have you explained why nobody ever sees the storage tanks for this stuff- it would be pretty characteristic since it would need to be a powder delivery system and blanketed by dry gas.
You don't even seem to understand that con trails are caused by condensation which leaves trails of white foggy looking stuff- and you don't even know what an aerosol is.

In summary- as I said before-
Go away, and don't come back unless you have some evidence.
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Offline tkadm30

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The last picture I posted clearly shows that the aerosol is injected using a nozzle.

Educate yourself and stop posting disinformation.
« Last Edit: 09/08/2016 23:21:56 by tkadm30 »
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Offline Bored chemist

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The last picture I posted clearly shows that the aerosol is injected using a nozzle.

Educate yourself and stop posting disinformation.
Stop lying.
The last pic you posted was almost entirely sky. A small part of it was a plane. Behind the plane was a vapour trail. there's absolutely no way that you could see any "nozzle" on that picture- you can barely see the engines.
Did you mean that the trail from the left wing was from this magic nozzle or did you mean the one from the right wing?


Come back when you have actual evidence.
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Offline tkadm30

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You're either blind or unable to recognize that the chemtrail plume is coming from the rear part of the plane. On this picture two nozzles seems used to inject the aerosol into the atmosphere. 
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Offline Bored chemist

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You're either blind or unable to recognize that the chemtrail plume is coming from the rear part of the plane. On this picture two nozzles seems used to inject the aerosol into the atmosphere.
I zoomed in on that picture.
You can see that the trails originate in "mid air" between the jets and the tail. Exactly where they should do  because they are caused when the jet output mixes with the cooler air.
It's you who can't see the truth.
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Offline tkadm30

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Commercial planes don't emit such thick white plume. As you suggested, it seems possible the jet fuel mix with the substance to create this plume.
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Offline tkadm30

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http://www.google.com.na/patents/US20080256852
"Integrated process and apparatus for producing coal-based jet fuel, diesel fuel, and distillate fuels."

Ok, I think its possible that coal fly ash could be used as a combustion additive for military aircrafts.

Google "JP-900 jet fuel" and "The Coal-Based Jet Fuel Program".

http://www.energy.psu.edu/sites/default/files/files/JetFuels.pdf
« Last Edit: 12/08/2016 11:37:49 by tkadm30 »
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Offline tkadm30

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Thanks for your help, Bored chemist.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Whatever is coming out of the back of the engines (and let's be clear- there is no reason on earth to assume it's anyhthing but CO2 and water and a bit of NOx) it's forming that cloud a little way back from the engine. That's consistent with cooling and condensation- which is exactly what you would expect form a jet engine burning jet fuel.
The only thing that needs to be mixed with the fuel to achieve this is air.

However you make unsupported statements like "Commercial planes don't emit such thick white plume. "
And then pretend that your circular argument is evidence.
The best you have managed so far is the logical fallacy pitifully referred to as "Proof by shouting".

Why not go away and come back if you find some evidence?
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Offline tkadm30

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The only thing that needs to be mixed with the fuel to achieve this is air.

No. Coal-based jet fuel is based on combustion ash (JP-900).
 
Quote from: Bored chemist
However you make unsupported statements like "Commercial planes don't emit such thick white plume. "

True. Commercial planes uses standard jet fuel (Jet A-1).

I suppose the JP-900 is the evidence behind the "aerosolized coal-fly-ash" hypothesis.

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=68004   
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Offline Bored chemist

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You cite a thread that says
"In particular, there will be none of the minerals that produce fly ash when coal is burnt in power stations, so it is not a secret plot to produce chemtrails."
and pretend that it says the exact opposite.
You are clearly trolling.


The JP900 story is a progression from the Sasol project.
http://www.sasol.com/media-centre/media-releases/sasol-produces-15-billion-barrels-synthetic-fuel-coal-fifty-years

It uses coal (not ash) to make  jet fuel
The ash gets left on the ground.
It's not some daft way of getting ash into the atmosphere- coal fired power stations already do that- it's a way of making (expensive) jet fuel from (cheap) coal.

Incidentally, this thread no longer shows up in the list of recent threads, presumably because someone somewhere has realised you were dirtying up the site with your nonsense.
« Last Edit: 13/08/2016 14:13:17 by Bored chemist »
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Offline chiralSPO

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Offline tkadm30

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Interesting and very relevant article:
http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/11/8/084011

There's nothing new there. Ken Caldeira is a leading scientist actively implicated in the research and
development of  geoengineering technology. However, at least this study suggest that the majority of "experts" are
unable to tell the difference between a contrail and a chemtrail.

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Offline chiralSPO

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Interesting and very relevant article:
http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/11/8/084011

There's nothing new there. Ken Caldeira is a leading scientist actively implicated in the research and
development of  geoengineering technology. However, at least this study suggest that the majority of "experts" are
unable to tell the difference between a contrail and a chemtrail.

You're right, it's actually a conspiracy involving 2 billion people spending 17 trillion dollars per year so we can extinguish the other 5 billion people in the world and own the whole planet. It's a major pity it will involve destroying the entire biosphere, but I'm sure we can fix it for another few trillion dollars per year over a decade or two. Anything to remove those amongst us who are not supposed to live in the New World!

Oh, no! Did I just spill the beans? No matter, the atmosphere will be saturated in barium in a matter of days, and then it won't matter... bwahahaha bwahahaha BWAHAHAHAHA

psych!

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Offline tkadm30

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Thank you for serving me my daily dose of naked deception... I was hoping to have a open minded discussion about chemtrails with you.





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Offline Bored chemist

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However, at least this study suggest that the majority of "experts" are
unable to tell the difference between a contrail and a chemtrail.
You seem to have forgotten that you also showed that you were unable to tell the difference between a chemtrail and a contrail.

In fact it seems that nobody can reliably spot any difference at all.
That's consistent with the idea that chemtrails don't exist.
Do you have any actual evidence that they exist?
You certainly have not provided any so far, even though I have asked repeatedly.
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Offline tkadm30

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You seem to have forgotten that you also showed that you were unable to tell the difference between a chemtrail and a contrail.

In fact it seems that nobody can reliably spot any difference at all.
That's consistent with the idea that chemtrails don't exist.
Do you have any actual evidence that they exist?
You certainly have not provided any so far, even though I have asked repeatedly.

Well, since you ignore photographic evidences, it's likely that you can confuse a chemtrail with a contrail. As for your usual wishful thinking that chemtrails don't exist, it's possible that the chemical composition of the aerosolized jet fuel produces a photochemical reaction making chemtrails hard to notice. However, the high altitude "thick white plumes" released from an aircraft is an undeniable evidence of clandestine geoengineering activity.

Commercial aircrafts don't emit thick white plumes, period.

So, either the aerosolized jet fuel is engineered to produces secondary organic aerosols from coal-based combustion or a synthetic additive is being added to the fuel to produces a photochemical reaction at high altitude.
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Offline Bored chemist

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I supplied some.
You made it clear that you couldn't tell if it was a chemtrail or not.

"Commercial aircrafts don't emit thick white plumes, period."
Yes they do.
For example the ones in various pictures in this thread.


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Offline tkadm30

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I supplied some.
You made it clear that you couldn't tell if it was a chemtrail or not.

"Commercial aircrafts don't emit thick white plumes, period."
Yes they do.
For example the ones in various pictures in this thread.

Haha. Nice disinformation, sir.

I challenge you to take a picture of a flying commercial aircraft releasing a thick white plume...

Meanwhile, I believe readers will assume that clandestine geoengineering activity is real.
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Offline chiralSPO

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Meanwhile, I believe readers will assume that clandestine geoengineering activity is real.

Poor assumption. I think you are projecting your own beliefs on other readers.

You still have offered no significant evidence that planes are being used to spray noxious chemicals for the purpose of geoengineering, no solid explanation of the motives of those doing this, let alone who "they" are or how they are paying for such a massive undertaking, or why the rest of the world is letting it happen (believe me, if it could be shown that the US was trying to alter the atmosphere for some nefarious reason, Russia would knock our chemtrailing planes right out of the sky; and if you think that Russia and US are working together on a big secret plan, you are crazier than I thought)

In short: we still don't know from your posts who is trying to do what, and why. Furthermore, the "how" falls short on many levels (as shown by other members here): planes couldn't possibly put enough coal ash into the atmosphere to do anything substantial without there being an enormous fleet of them constantly criss-crossing the sky, carrying nothing other than toxic dust (and who is paying for that?). Coal power plants are already releasing tons (millions of tons) of particulates into the atmosphere, and people are working to reduce that, not increase it. That some people are trying to make jet fuel out of coal does not help your arguments, because the jet fuel they make has the properties of jet fuel, not coal...

Maybe if you offered something more valid, there would be something worth discussing, but as it stands this is nothing more than a conspiracy theory.

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Offline tkadm30

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Poor assumption. I think you are projecting your own beliefs on other readers.

You still have offered no significant evidence that planes are being used to spray noxious chemicals for the purpose of geoengineering, no solid explanation of the motives of those doing this, let alone who "they" are or how they are paying for such a massive undertaking, or why the rest of the world is letting it happen (believe me, if it could be shown that the US was trying to alter the atmosphere for some nefarious reason, Russia would knock our chemtrailing planes right out of the sky; and if you think that Russia and US are working together on a big secret plan, you are crazier than I thought)

In short: we still don't know from your posts who is trying to do what, and why. Furthermore, the "how" falls short on many levels (as shown by other members here): planes couldn't possibly put enough coal ash into the atmosphere to do anything substantial without there being an enormous fleet of them constantly criss-crossing the sky, carrying nothing other than toxic dust (and who is paying for that?). Coal power plants are already releasing tons (millions of tons) of particulates into the atmosphere, and people are working to reduce that, not increase it. That some people are trying to make jet fuel out of coal does not help your arguments, because the jet fuel they make has the properties of jet fuel, not coal...

Maybe if you offered something more valid, there would be something worth discussing, but as it stands this is nothing more than a conspiracy theory.

It's the US who is doing geoengineering in NATO countries, including Canada. However, since the US and Canada have signed the ENMOD treaty, it is considered a clandestine activity because stratospheric aerosol injection is prohibited.

Whether Russia allow clandestine geoengineering activity would make a great thread, in my opinion:
http://yournewswire.com/putin-accuses-u-s-of-spraying-poisonous-chemtrails-over-syria/

As for the "coal fly ash" hypothesis, I believe it make sense that coal power plants have found in geoengineering a profitable way to sell coal fly ash to the US government. This criminal activity would violates the Clean Air Act I presume, but since it's a military program, I guess the US senate has no control over US military operations.

I think you need to wake up. There's plenty of photographic evidences of suspicious chemtrails over the Internet. It's only a matter of time now until the legality of clandestine geoengineering activity gets challenged.

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Offline Bored chemist

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I challenge you to take a picture of a flying commercial aircraft releasing a thick white plume...

Meanwhile, I believe readers will assume that clandestine geoengineering activity is real.
Pointing out the truth (and backing it up with pictures) is not disinformation.
Well, since I already posted one you presumably realise that readers (and there must be damned few still here) will recognise that- if it ever existed- there is no longer evidence for clandestine geoengineering.
You can stop trolling now.
« Last Edit: 21/08/2016 21:41:44 by Bored chemist »
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Offline tkadm30

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Pointing out the truth (and backing it up with pictures) is not disinformation.

Unlike you, I have photographic evidences of chemtrails, and not posting disinformation. You on the other hand have no evidences that chemtrails do not exist and yet you claim I'm trolling. So, either you are clearly putting forward propaganda or I'm confusing a cirrus cloud with a chemtrail. I think you must wake up and stop the cognitive infiltration.

 
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Offline Bored chemist

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Unlike you, I have photographic evidences of chemtrails,
 
Well why don't you post it?
So far you have not put forward any evidence of anything.
(and saying I don't have evidence of the non-existence of something is just silly. You are the one who says they exist; so you are the one who has to provide the evidence)
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Offline tkadm30

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Well why don't you post it?
So far you have not put forward any evidence of anything.
(and saying I don't have evidence of the non-existence of something is just silly. You are the one who says they exist; so you are the one who has to provide the evidence)

I already posted it here: http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=49418.msg494974#msg494974

As far as I know, contrails don't form a high density plume from the combustion of jet fuel. So I challenge you once again to find a picture of a commercial aircraft which releases a visible and persisting plume that alters cloud composition. 

Also, what is the point in contesting the existence of chemtrails ? You or a cointelpro agent are virtually the same entity in denying the reality of clandestine geoengineering activity.
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Offline Bored chemist

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What you posted was a picture of a plane and its contrail.
That's not evidence of chemtrails is it?
So, as I said, you have yet to post any evidence of chemtrails.
Repeating your claim that you have done so doesn't help.

"As far as I know, contrails don't form a high density plume from the combustion of jet fuel. "
Then you don't know enough.
Let me know when something changes.
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Offline tkadm30

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What you posted was a picture of a plane and its contrail.

A condensation trail cannot be produced from the jet engines of an aircraft. This is a typical error or propaganda
term to confuse people on the synthetic nature of theses chemical trails.

The term "chemtrail" is correct to designate the aerosolized substance used for clandestine geoengineering purpose.
The bliss of ignorance is deeper in the region of tyranny.

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Offline Bored chemist

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What you posted was a picture of a plane and its contrail.

A condensation trail cannot be produced from the jet engines of an aircraft. This is a typical error or propaganda
term to confuse people on the synthetic nature of theses chemical trails.

The term "chemtrail" is correct to designate the aerosolized substance used for clandestine geoengineering purpose.

"A condensation trail cannot be produced from the jet engines of an aircraft. "
Why not?
Burning jet fuel produces water. it's cold up there and so the water condenses.
(It's not the only mechanism but it's a perfectly reasonable one).
What stops the water  formed by combustion  condensing out when it meets cold air in much the same way your breath "steams" on a cold day?

The term "imaginary" is correct to designate the aerosolized substance used for clandestine geoengineering purpose.
Unless you can actually show some evidence.
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Offline tkadm30

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You don't know what a contrail is. A contrail is produced from the wingtips of an aircraft. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingtip_vortices

Furthermore calling a "contrail" a persistent high density plume is absurd. No "contrail" or wingtip vortices can persist in the atmosphere.

A "chemtrail" is the correct term to designate what the propaganda (official narrative) defines as a "contrail".

And I guess it's normal for non-scientific people to ignore the proper terminology since disinformation is omnipresent about the science of chemtrails. I'm just disappointed by your overall knowledge of basic science.
The bliss of ignorance is deeper in the region of tyranny.

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Offline Bored chemist

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You don't know what a contrail is. A contrail is produced from the wingtips of an aircraft. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingtip_vortices

Furthermore calling a "contrail" a persistent high density plume is absurd. No "contrail" or wingtip vortices can persist in the atmosphere.

A "chemtrail" is the correct term to designate what the propaganda (official narrative) defines as a "contrail".

And I guess it's normal for non-scientific people to ignore the proper terminology since disinformation is omnipresent about the science of chemtrails. I'm just disappointed by your overall knowledge of basic science.

If you are going to cite wiki, use the right page. It will take you here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail#/media/File:Sq_contrails_ybbn.jpg
where it's clear that the contrails are not at the wingtips.

You have yet to say anything that is backed up by evidence. As such, you have introduced nothing scientific.

How do you feel able to comment on my knowledge of science in these circumstances?
That's a particularly interesting question given how poorly you have grasped science- as witnessed by your postings about zeoltites.
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Offline tkadm30

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If you are going to cite wiki, use the right page. It will take you here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail#/media/File:Sq_contrails_ybbn.jpg
where it's clear that the contrails are not at the wingtips.

Hahahaha. On this "Contrail" page the picture is labelled a "aviaticus cloud"...

Just pathetic disinformation.

Are you finished trolling now?
The bliss of ignorance is deeper in the region of tyranny.