[Atomic-S (OP)]

I have this book titled Pasteur Plagiarist Impostor!  The Germ Theory Exploded! that was published in 1942, from the collection of a late naturopath.  Interesting concepts some of these people had. One thing many of them fervently believed, judging from some of their literature, is that the properly nourished and exercised body is, with rare exeptions, immune to disease.  

Peole who believed that tended to discount the significance of exposure to infectious organisms as a significant issue in disease, and that is one of the reasons why many of them opposed vaccination.

This raises an interesing question: To what extent would ideal health make one invulnerable to micro-organisms?  Can we assume, as some of them did, that if a person takes all the right vitamins, gets all the right rest and exercise, etc., that such a person can attend a school where there are cold germs being spread around, and not worry about catching it?  Is there any experimental evidence that would definitively answer that question?

And if so, how far does this invulnerability extend? What about walking through a hospital or elven attending patients there, where nastier bugs might exist? What about going camping in a mosquito-infested swamp and considering oneself immune to anyh of the stuff mosquitos transmit?  Can a person having excellent living habits safely clean out a garage where rodents have deposited their feces and other debris, without respiratory protection? What about falling overboard from a ship into sewage-polluted waters?  What if terrorists detonate an anthrax bomb over the city, and you walk through the cloud of germs?

Does anyone actually know, based upon solid evidence preferably controlled experiments, just how much immunity from nasty micro-organisms one can expect to acquire from excellent diet, vitamins, and exercise?

[Mjhavok]

Immune to all disease? Doubtful.

I have often wondered how powerful the human body could be if brought up under the best conditions from birth.

-Steven

[iko]

It is too easy to generalize these concepts...(do you say that?)
Let's make it simpler:
On one side one human being, perfectly healthy, exercised, properly-fed, full of vitamins (and money!) and  genetically ok (where is one?).
On the other side hundreds of species of bugs precisely designed and selected to jump on humans (and/or other creatures) to survive and proliferate. Many are already in position: skin, respiratory tract, guts and so on.
Some are viruses, mycoplasmas, bacteria, protozoa and parasites: they all have over-specialized systems for accomplishing their 'mission'.
It is a silent battle most of the times and the human body can counteract and set up an immune defense.
In rare cases bugs can enter the body and survive without reactions from the "healthy carrier". They love it because they can spread around and survive with all the comforts.
Sometimes the body builds up too much "fulminant" reactive-energy  that leads to death: bugs too die together with the host.
These are very complex phenomena with thousands of multiple factors interacting.
There cannot be a simple recipe for total immunity.
Most of the times Medicine helps in surviving an otherwise lethal infection and being able to become healthy again (plus exercise, diet,etc.).
Do not worry too much but...buckle up! These days car crashes are much more dangerous!
bye
iko

[another_someone]

Infectious diseases, from the bubonic plague to typhoid, was no respector of rank or social status (Price Albert supposedly died of typhoid).  The reduction in infectious diseases has been more a consequence of improved hygiene than it has in anything else (although immunisation of entire populations has certainly also played its part for some diseases).

Even today, we have senior Government ministers and their families succumbing to HIV in many African countries, and the only way of dealing with malaria is simply to separate yourself from the risk (which is one reason why historically rich people lived up on the hill tops, well away from the mosquito ridden swamps, and in good circulating air that did not favour mosquitoes.

George

[another_someone]

Infectious diseases, from the bubonic plague to typhoid, was no respector of rank or social status (Price Albert supposedly died of typhoid).  The reduction in infectious diseases has been more a consequence of improved hygiene than it has in anything else (although immunisation of entire populations has certainly also played its part for some diseases).

Even today, we have senior Government ministers and their families succumbing to HIV in many African countries, and the only way of dealing with malaria is simply to separate yourself from the risk (which is one reason why historically rich people lived up on the hill tops, well away from the mosquito ridden swamps, and in good circulating air that did not favour mosquitoes.

George

[Gaia]

Since the 'autism' scare in the UK there was a  drop in parents letting their children be immunised with the MMR measles/mups/rubella) vaccine and a resultant increase in childhood measles.

Another interesting point is the increase in allergies from children leading 'cleaner' lives, low exposure to dirt, antibacterial handwash/dishwashing liquid, etc etc. Their bodies do not get a chance to build up a natural immunity to such an extent as previously.

Gaia

[iko]

quote:Another interesting point is the increase in allergies from children leading 'cleaner' lives, low exposure to dirt, antibacterial handwash/dishwashing liquid, etc etc. Their bodies do not get a chance to build up a natural immunity to such an extent as previously.
Gaia

Chronic vitamin D deficiency, affecting 30-40% of urban populations (according to some recent reports) may play a role in the different forms of immunological abnormalities observed in developed countries.
We live in 'cleaner' and 'dimmer' places...more sunlight exposure could help.
 

quote:...Vitamin D is a selective regulator of the immune system, and the outcome of 1,25(OH)2D3 treatment, vitamin D deficiency, or VDR deficiency depends on the nature of the immune response (eg, infectious disease, asthma, or autoimmune disease)...
from:
Cantorna MT et al.  Am.J.Clin.Nutr. 2004 Dec;80(6suppl):1717s-20s.
Vitamin D status, 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3, and the immune system.

iko

[ArmenArtist]

I was big into naturopathic health recently.  When I was, eating good, taking lots of vitamins, colonics, saunas, etc., i noticed i was going a long time without getting sick.

When I stopped, i got sick real quickly.

Also, fasting needs to be added to the list of things to do, and detox.

Vitamins is not the answer.

The REAL naturopathic answer is that diet, vitamins, exersize and etc., is not all.

Germs DO enter the body, naturopathics DO NOT DENY that, but because they know that, they want people to detox often., i.e., laxatives, colonics, saunas, detox vitamins and etc gallor.

Thus, the answer is live a life to not gather germs, but because it is unavoidable, detox and cleanse often of those germs.  

This may not make us superman, but it cant hurt and it...can help to save our lives.

[Gaia]

I would suggest that it is because living a 'healthy' life (usually) helps to strengthen the body's own immune system.

Oh, and for babies it is especially important to breastfeed where possible, especially in the first few months of life, because the mother's milk contains antibodies that the baby is as yet unable to produce him/herself and these are not present in baby formula milk.

(At the risk of going off-topic, this is one of the reasons for the anti-Nestle campaign.)

I do think that things can be taken too far, with parents refusing to immunise children etc. Okay, in a community where most children are immunised it is possible that the unimmunised child will escape the illnesses but only because the high level of immunised children reduces the vector pool and the child is less likely to come into contact with the disease. Sorry to rant but this is personal. My father now says that he would now refuse to have us immunised if we were babies/children!

Gaia  xxx

[iko]

We do not want polio and diphteria around again, do we?
Only tuberculosis vaccine has been found sort of useless retrospectively: TB decreased at the same rate because of better sanitary conditions either where vaccines were used or in absence of any immunization campaign.
Unfortunately Medicine has these up & downs...it shouldn't go by fashion, but through continuous progress and careful protection of the achievements of the past.
As a cofactor supporter (I'm the "cod liver oil maniac"!) I have seen vitamins given to every patient and for any disease 25 years ago, when biochemistry was "the thing", then progressively forgotten and almost totally neglected now.   Thiamine deficiency (beri-beri) was discovered 120yrs ago (actually it had always been there) but these days you may find several cases diagnosed at autopsy (that means too late) in the literature.  Let's protect and defend our achievements in medical sciences...they costed an enormous number of human lives!
iko

[ArmenArtist]

I was big into naturopathic health recently.  When I was, eating good, taking lots of vitamins, colonics, saunas, etc., i noticed i was going a long time without getting sick.

When I stopped, i got sick real quickly.

Also, fasting needs to be added to the list of things to do, and detox.

Vitamins is not the answer.

The REAL naturopathic answer is that diet, vitamins, exersize and etc., is not all.

Germs DO enter the body, naturopathics DO NOT DENY that, but because they know that, they want people to detox often., i.e., laxatives, colonics, saunas, detox vitamins and etc gallor.

Thus, the answer is live a life to not gather germs, but because it is unavoidable, detox and cleanse often of those germs.  

This may not make us superman, but it cant hurt and it...can help to save our lives.

[Gaia]

I would suggest that it is because living a 'healthy' life (usually) helps to strengthen the body's own immune system.

Oh, and for babies it is especially important to breastfeed where possible, especially in the first few months of life, because the mother's milk contains antibodies that the baby is as yet unable to produce him/herself and these are not present in baby formula milk.

(At the risk of going off-topic, this is one of the reasons for the anti-Nestle campaign.)

I do think that things can be taken too far, with parents refusing to immunise children etc. Okay, in a community where most children are immunised it is possible that the unimmunised child will escape the illnesses but only because the high level of immunised children reduces the vector pool and the child is less likely to come into contact with the disease. Sorry to rant but this is personal. My father now says that he would now refuse to have us immunised if we were babies/children!

Gaia  xxx

[iko]

We do not want polio and diphteria around again, do we?
Only tuberculosis vaccine has been found sort of useless retrospectively: TB decreased at the same rate because of better sanitary conditions either where vaccines were used or in absence of any immunization campaign.
Unfortunately Medicine has these up & downs...it shouldn't go by fashion, but through continuous progress and careful protection of the achievements of the past.
As a cofactor supporter (I'm the "cod liver oil maniac"!) I have seen vitamins given to every patient and for any disease 25 years ago, when biochemistry was "the thing", then progressively forgotten and almost totally neglected now.   Thiamine deficiency (beri-beri) was discovered 120yrs ago (actually it had always been there) but these days you may find several cases diagnosed at autopsy (that means too late) in the literature.  Let's protect and defend our achievements in medical sciences...they costed an enormous number of human lives!
iko