[ebzZzZ (OP)]

"Is the world i see the world i live in?"

 Am I right?, am I wrong?

- Bi polar

[Ylide]

Reality is what you perceive it to be.  Every person's reality is different.  The mentally ill are only ill in the sense they perceive reality in a way different from what we do.  Insanity is a minority of one!

Common reality would be the group consensus on perception.  For instance, person sees a flying saucer hovering over New York City.  9 million others do not.  The common reality is that there is no flying saucer.  For that 1 guy though, there sure as hell is.  Which is reality?  Does the group perception dictate reality?  In most cases, sure, but I think it's fallacy to always accept that.  

Then there are the people with sollipsism who think that everything is a creation of their mind and that when something is outside of their perception, it ceases to exist until perceived again.  I know someone who really thinks like that...truly bizarre.



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[Donnah]

Reality is subjective enough that everyone's perspective is different.  Solipsism sounds like a narcissistic point of view.

My mother believes that some people have no souls and are "alive" only to serve those who do have souls.  She calls them props.  I call her mentally ill.

[Ylide]

Heh...props.  That's kinda funny.  In a way, I can almost agree that some people are lacking a certain essence of humanity.  A few times in my life, I've run across people that are extremely disturbed, violent,  and maladjusted for no good reason.  (they come from good homes, were never knowingly abused, etc)  I've looked into their eyes and just seen...nothing.  It's like looking into a vacuum...it's the very antithesis of existance.  I wouldn't call it evil, at least evil is human.  These people had NOTHING.  Maybe they're just true sociopaths and I'm sensitive to it, I dunno...I pick up on emotion easily so if there ISN'T any, maybe that's whats disturbing.


As far as soulless people serving mankind, what the hell, where's MY soulless automaton?  I need a maid.


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[bezoar]

I found when I worked psychiatry that there really are people who have absolutely no regard for you, your feelings, what happens to you, etc.  These are the true sociopaths, and they just go around and screw with other people for entertainment.  Might even kill a couple of them if they're curious so see what they look like when they die.  And it's really not mental illness, per se, but seems to be more like something missing in their ability to connect with their fellow man.  Not curable, it's just the way they are.

Bezoar

[Donnah]

Nancy, would you call someone who would kill except that they were afraid they might get caught a sociopath?

Jay, I know what you mean about the eyes.  I looked into the eyes of a mercenary and it was like looking into a dark tunnel with no spark of light at all.  Scary.

[bezoar]

I suppose, if they would kill just for entertainment and not because they had a serious issue with that person.  There really are people who just don't connect with their fellow man.

Bezoar

[Donnah]

Nancy, what about mothers who kill their children because they don't want them?

[Ylide]

Donnah, I'd say not wanting to go to jail doesn't make one any less of a sociopath.  Sociopaths still care about their OWN well being and survival, just not that of others.  

BTW, where the heck did you meet a mercenary??  Were you in the French Foreign Legion or something?



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[Donnah]

I was just sitting in a pub on the University of Alberta campus waiting for a friend when this fellow invited himself to sit down with me and stated flat out that he was a mercenary.  Apparently he was shopping for a wife (yikes!!!), so as soon as my companion arrived we lit out of there like our butts were on fire.  Another friend who knew the guy told me some of his gruesome tasks and how much he enjoyed his work.

[bezoar]

Aw Donnah, and you passed up a chance at a husband?  He probably makes lots of money and loves his work.  Obviously, he was considering you, and I'll bet you broke his mercenary heart.

As far as women with the abortion issue, you know, of course, you're opening up a can of worms here.  There is a difference, I think, between knowing and seeing someone, and killing them, versus killing you unborn baby that you've never seen.  There is another difference between a young, frightened girl who's never had children, and a mother with several children, who's abandoned the living children to relatives to rear, and is now using abortion as a form of birth control.  It's not so much the act itself, as much as it is whether or not it impacts on your conscience.  Sociopaths, for the most part, don't have a conscience.  It really is a lack of connection.

Bezoar

[Quantumcat]

For the person who thought solippism is narcissic or whatever, can you prove that things are still there when you close your eyes? Or are you too trusting with your senses and lack a bit of philisophic thinking

Am I dead? Am I alive? I'm both!

[Ylide]

It's also a debatable issue as to whether first term fetuses are even "sentient" and capable of being murdered.  Insects show more self-awareness and we don't think twice about crushing them if they're an inconvenience.   There's no argument as to whether a grown adult is sentient however I do know some people who only marginally qualify as such.





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[Donnah]

Bezoar, ya that's me, just a real heart breaker.  When I asked about mothers who kill their children I meant children who have already been born.  

Abortion is a tough issue.  I've seen an aborted fetus that was supposedly three months old.  That little boy even had fingernails!  So where do you draw the line?  Do you force mothers to have babies and give them up?  Do you allow children to be born and raised by families who don't want them and are likely to abuse them?  Try getting punched out a time or two yourself before sentencing a child to eighteen or so years of that.  I am grateful never to have had to make that choice.

Women who use abortion as a means of birth control should be sterilized.  And so should women who use squirting out babies as a means of getting welfare.  I know of a woman who has eight babies (most are FAS) from six or seven different fathers and the government pays for her to continue living this way and pays a full time nanny.  Because her children are FAS, she has screwed up their lives too, and as a taxpayer, I'm footing part of the bill.  No one will say boo because she's native and would scream descrimination, but I say to hell with her "rights", they ended when she took away the right of those children to have a normal life.

[Ylide]

I agree 100% that reproduction should be a privelege, not a right.  Unfortunately, if it ever got that far, the powers that be would contend to control all reproduction, even that which most of society would deem worthy.  You know, Big Brother looking out for our best interests and all.  That scares me more than paying a few extra bucks to pay for some stupid ghetto-mom's inability to keep her legs closed.

Abortion as birth control is a bit excessive, and I don't condone it at all, but I hate to see any regulation on abortions besides what we already have...it's a slippery slope to the religious nutjobs in this country banning it outright, even for rape and birth defects cases.




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[bezoar]

But you forget one thing, and I'm giving away my age now, because I remember when abortion was illegal, but not really.  There was always a provision for a therapeutic abortion, and it wasn't impossible to get either.  Two docs had to sign that it would be injurious to your health to continue the pregnancy, and that also included your emotional health.  So if you were a nut chase, or had been raped, or became pregnant by virtue of incest, or had physical conditions that would have been exacerbated by pregnancy, then you could have an abortion.  I kind of think that was a better system.  I don't think the infamous coat hanger abortions were a great idea, but I still don't think there's enough pre-abortion counselling to these girls so that they realize exactly what they're doing.  And really, the welfare moms aren't the ones getting the abortions, because Medicaid won't pay for them.  To me, that's false economy.

Bezoar

[Donnah]

quote:Originally posted by cannabinoid

...You know, Big Brother looking out for our best interests and all.  That scares me more than paying a few extra bucks to pay for some stupid ghetto-mom's inability to keep her legs closed...

Let's remember that half of the responsibility lies with the dunder-headed men who get their rocks off first and then (if ever) ask about birth control.

I'm not suggesting to sterilize wildly, anyone can have an oops, but after the second oops while on social assistance the choice should be to have an operation or relinquish public financial support.

[tweener]

I'd rather the government didn't get involved at all.  That includes paying welfare.  

I like a saftey net for people to get back on their feet after some bad luck, but the system we now have takes it way too far.  And worst, the current system actively discourages people trying to get back in the workforce by reducing their payments as soon as they get a job such that they make less money working than they do just sitting at home and collecting the handout.  Let them get a job and earn some money to dig themselves out.  I've known several welfare types that make a career out of playing the system.


----
John

[Ylide]

Donnah, while a considerate man will always ask about such things, and pack a few condoms for such cases, the responsibility ultimately lies with the woman.  It's her body, it's her that can get pregnant, the repurcussions are ultimately hers, so it's up to her to say "wrap that things up."  Many women are on birth control, and a lot of guys will just assume.  I'm not excusing the boorish behavior, I'm simply saying that when you're ultimately the one who will bear the burden of pregnancy, you're the one who must be in control of it.  Too many women are wet blankets for crude men.  

My big problem is with women who keep getting pregnant when they obviously can't afford the child(ren) they already have.  I see that kind of thing every day at the shelter my girl works for.  Half the female residents are pregnant with 1 more more young children already running around.  (some of them are even infants, I don't know how they found the time to get knocked up again!)  Most of them were homeless BEFORE they got pregnant again, leading to the question "Why the hell did you do that?"  Invariably the answer is "I wanted another baby."  Sigh.



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[Donnah]

Jay, I don't quite agree.  Women don't get pregnant on their own (except the odd case with a turkey baster and a sperm bank).  Both parents are responsible (ethically) but by virtue of the fact that it's women who bear the children, she is left to clean up the mess.  I'm sure that many "fathers" don't even know they have a child.  That's a comforting thought for any man who's ever had a one night stand.