[Hadrian (OP)]

Well what do you think

[moonfire]

I think, but I don't do!  LOL  Miss ewe!

[FuzzyUK]

It's easy if you pick your nose regularly. But don't eat it if you are on a diet.

[Hadrian (OP)]

It's easy if you pick your nose regularly. But don't eat it if you are on a diet.

did you pick your own one because i wouldn’t have .... ...  LOL

[pentiumm]

How easy is it to lose  weight?  Answer to your STRANGE question. It's grade three math, calorie intake VS Calories
burnt.

[BillJx]

How easy is it to lose  weight?  Answer to your STRANGE question. It's grade three math, calorie intake VS Calories
burnt.

I think it's considerably more complex than that.  Our bodies are not just passive containers.
I'm sure that most people don't like being fat.  I'm sure that for most women, especially, being fat is very difficult.  I see plenty of fat women who are intelligent, and appear to be well motivated in the way they live their lives.  It follows that for a fat person to get slim and stay slim must be even more difficult than being fat. If it were just a matter of self discipline, we wouldn't see so many highly successful fat people.

It can be done.  But it's obviously not simple.

[another_someone]

I think it's considerably more complex than that.  Our bodies are not just passive containers.
I'm sure that most people don't like being fat.  I'm sure that for most women, especially, being fat is very difficult.  I see plenty of fat women who are intelligent, and appear to be well motivated in the way they live their lives.  It follows that for a fat person to get slim and stay slim must be even more difficult than being fat. If it were just a matter of self discipline, we wouldn't see so many highly successful fat people.

It can be done.  But it's obviously not simple.

Should that last statement not be "It can sometimes be done"?

Is there any evidence for your more unqualified statement?

Is there any reason even to believe that there is a single cause, and thus a single 'cure', for people being 'overweight'?

Clearly, people who are seriously starving themselves will lose weight (it takes not a lot of imagination to suggest that starving yourself of food will cause massive loss of weight before you die).  This kind of weight loss can easy be reversed (unless it becomes so serious that the only outcome is death).  The question is whether one can retain long term weight loss and remain healthy (and I know of several people who have massively lost weight on doctors orders, and have become very unhealthy).

[neilep]

Hey !!..is the poll over ?...I never voted  !!

Anyway, I would have voted ' with a lot of effort I can do it'

[Karen W.]

Its never easy but it can be done! I already voted!

[BillJx]

sometimes[/b] be done"?

Certainly.  You've caught me in a lazy generalization.  The point of my post was that it takes very little observation to see the absurdity of blaming overweight people for their problems.

I was smart enough to have slim parents.  Still, in its mid-50's my belly competes successfully with my chest.  If I'd had fat parents, I'd weighh 500 lbs I'm sure.

[GBSB]

pentiumm wrote
How easy is it to lose  weight?  Answer to your STRANGE question. It's grade three math, calorie intake VS Calories
burnt.

It is strange question but as well it is strange answer.

Nowadays many millions of people worldwide trying to lose weight and much more millions of people is trying to prevent to get overweight and obese and in same time obesity rate skyrocketing.
If anything work to prevent or to treat obesity we won’t have any discussion of obesity.
One reason that nothing work to prevent overweight and obesity is that present understanding is based on huge misconception. This misconception is partly reflected in calories intake versus calories burnt. It is depressing that entire science is product of not knowing that metabolic waste (faeces, urine, breath, fat on the skin etc) is full of calories.
Please see; http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=4769.msg38340#msg38340

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6859.0

BillJx wrote
I think it's considerably more complex than that.  Our bodies are not just passive containers.
I'm sure that most people don't like being fat.  I'm sure that for most women, especially, being fat is very difficult.  I see plenty of fat women who are intelligent, and appear to be well motivated in the way they live their lives.  It follows that for a fat person to get slim and stay slim must be even more difficult than being fat. If it were just a matter of self discipline, we wouldn't see so many highly successful fat people.

It can be done.  But it's obviously not simple

That is what common sense tells as. Each time when common sense appear on surface, the people involved in obesity research came with some swindle theory like speed and slow metabolism or genetics etc that oppress any common sense. Nowadays using common sense is engulfed by the fear, because nearly everyone, from scientist to simple people, is afraid for himself or for loves one not to get overweight or obese.
Fear is destructive sense that crippling any creative thinking. People affected by fear will buy anything, from swindle theory that comfort their belief that explain why the are not overweight or why they are not obese to any product that promising weight loss it doesn’t mater on how ridiculous theory is based explanation how it works.

another_someone wrote
Should that last statement not be "It can sometimes be done"?

I think that is more appropriate to say “it can be done, but it's obviously not simple” because some people are able to achieve significant weight loss following programs for weight loss based on diet and/or exercise and some of them not. For some people nothing works except weight loss surgery. That all shows that for everyone is possible to achieve significant weight loss but as well it is obvious that is not simple.

another_someone wrote
Is there any evidence for your more unqualified statement?

I am a little bit confused; I didn’t find anything unqualified in BillJx statement

another_someone wrote
Is there any reason even to believe that there is a single cause, and thus a single 'cure', for people being 'overweight'?

It is reason, but it don’t need to believe because is plenty evidence that will support my statement express in article “Food Water and Air” http://www.freewebs.com/lukatunjic/foodwaterandair.htm

In this article I point out that for building fat mass on the body is responsible presence of excessive mechanical stimulation. Examples of people effected by weightlessness, people affected by prolong bed rest, elderly  and people effected by certain types of injure  clear that intake of the food alone will not produce any weight gain and will not even prevent weight loss.

another_someone wrote
Clearly, people who are seriously starving themselves will lose weight (it takes not a lot of imagination to suggest that starving yourself of food will cause massive loss of weight before you die).

It is just partly truth. Because on examples of starvation were we see only people that was able to survive so long to get to the point of skeletal proportion. Much greater number of people lost the life before massive loss of weight happened.
Perceptually, just small number of people is able to survive absence or harsh restriction of food to get to the point of skeletal proportion.
 

another_someone wrote
This kind of weight loss can easy be reversed (unless it becomes so serious that the only outcome is death).

That is right. Weight loss in this case can be easily reversed and this fact misleading in understanding cause of weight gain and weight loss.
They not gain weight because of the state of positive energy balance but because intake of food increase strength of the body and increased strength of the body cause change in the gait patterns and change of the body posture in such a way that providing enough mechanical stimulation on the body necessary for maintenance of existing body mass and for building new body mass.

By elderly and people with long standing illnesses intake of the food doesn’t lead to reverse of weight loss because health condition hinder change in locomotion that is usually caused by increased strength of the body.

 P. S.
Bears have different gait patterns in springs and different gait in autumn.
Feeding bear in springs will not produce weight gain.
Changes of the gait patterns in summer enable picking on the weight. Gained weight further more contribute to change in gait patterns.

another_someone wrote
The question is whether one can retain long term weight loss and remain healthy

Healthy way for weight loss is to do physical activities that provide mechanical stimulation to the bones and muscle tissues and in same time not provide mechanical stimulation to the fat tissues. (To remain healthy with or without weight loss is necessary to maintain optimal level of postural strength, postural stability and motor skill.)
Muscle tissues maintain existing mass and gain new muscle mass because of presence of mechanical stimulation.
Gain in muscle mass doesn’t always mean improvement of the strength of muscle.
Muscle gain strength because we use the muscle (and bones) by doing every days physical activity.
It is possible (by doing certain types of physical activities) to increase strength of the muscle and in same time to decrease muscle muss.
In case of fat tissues, we are not using fat tissues for doing any physical activity and that is reason that fat tissues can’t gain strength but by doing physical activity with unbalanced gait patterns and/or incorrect body posture we providing mechanical stimulation to the fat tissues and that fact is responsible for maintenance of existing fat mass and for building new fat mass.

another_someone wrote
(and I know of several people who have massively lost weight on doctors orders, and have become very unhealthy).

That is most outcome of any known weight loss program because is based on misunderstanding real cause of fat formation on the body.
Practicing any known commercialised program for weight loss has adverse health consequence, independent of weight loss success or non success.
 

BillJx wrote
The point of my post was that it takes very little observation to see the absurdity of blaming overweight people for their problems.

That is right. Overweight and obese people are in first place victims of bad science.

BillJx wrote
I was smart enough to have slim parents.  Still, in its mid-50's my belly competes successfully with my chest.  If I'd had fat parents, I'd weighh 500 lbs I'm sure.

I think you mean that genetically factor play role in weight of the body. I strongly disagree about that. Genetics doesn’t play any role in weight of the body. No one is genetically “chosen” to be overweight or obese or to be naturally thin.
Genetics science doesn’t nothing explain about weight and shape of the body but it introducing religious thought on beck door of humans reasoning.

P. S.
Sorry for long post and if anything confusing please let me know and I will tray to explain and if anyone have question or comments I will be happy to answer.

Luka Tunjic

http://www.freewebs.com/lukatunjic/

[Bored chemist]

"I think you mean that genetically factor play role in weight of the body. I strongly disagree about that. Genetics doesn’t play any role in weight of the body. "
Presumably thesse scientists refered to here

http://www.nubella.com/content/view/1823/64/
have got it wrong.

Can you in one or two sentences say what you think is the cause of obesity?
I think it's down to eating more calories than you burn and that some people's bodies burn off surplus calories as heat whereas other people's bodies hoard them as fat. I'm one of the lucky ones I eat what I like and don't seem to put on weight.

[paul.fr]

I think it's down to eating more calories than you burn and that some people's bodies burn off surplus calories as heat whereas other people's bodies hoard them as fat. I'm one of the lucky ones I eat what I like and don't seem to put on weight.

And possibly bacteria!

[GBSB]

Bored chemist wrote

GBSB wrote
"I think you mean that genetically factor play role in weight of the body. I strongly disagree about that. Genetics doesn’t play any role in weight of the body. "

Bored chemist wrote
Presumably theses scientists referred to here

http://www.nubella.com/content/view/1823/64/
have got it wrong.

Lets take a little bit under scrutiny what they saying in this web page that you posted link.

Using the most sophisticated high-tech gadgetry,

Mentioning the most sophisticated high-tech gadgetry they on beginning make impression that what ever following in this article is unquestionable scientific truth.
 

...scientists say they've unearthed something quirky in people's genes that may make them prone to obesity.

If they say, “We don’t have idea why some people are more prone to obesity” they can lose job which description is "scientist".
When they say that is because something happen whit gene, they gain even more respect, because nowadays word “gene” has magical power on the people. It is enough to say that something happen because of some gene and everyone believe without any question.

P. S.
God, they say, moves in a mysterious ways
Gene, scientist say, moves in a mysterious ways

A few words about contribution of genetics science in understanding cause of obesity.
What do we know more about obesity and cause of obesity thanks to “mighty genetics science” I will try put in a few words.
They discovered that fat distribution on the body is due to genetics.
They discovered that because of presence of some gene different people burn energy at different rate.
They discovered some gene that causes that some people are eating too much.
I guess if they know that metabolic waste is full of calories they would already discover some gene that cause that some people are shits to much.
Does anyone need more evidence that obesity scientist don’t know that humans body excrete plenty calories as metabolic waste
Does anybody still think that is any point do discus this or any another “ground breaking research” based on assumption that metabolic waste is calories free.

Bored chemist wrote
Can you in one or two sentences say what you think is the cause of obesity?

One day, even children will be able to understand underlining mechanism of weight gain and weight loss but for now is complicated because everyone thinks that know why some people are obese and another not. This belief is backed by many theories. If I prove that one theory is a swindle they quickly come with three new theories that comfort their pre existing belief.
Pre existing belief is that obese people are eating to much and/or they are not enough physically active
It is one belief supported by many theories and that’s why I can’t explain by using fever words.

Bored chemist wrote
I think it's down to eating more calories than you burn and that some people's bodies burn off surplus calories as heat whereas other people's bodies hoard them as fat.

That is what we’ve been told. There is no any evidence that support this “unquestionable scientific truth”.
 
Reducing on vulgar level if you eat more you shits more it does mater are you overweight, obese, normal weight or underweight.

Food alone doesn’t play any role in weight gain weight loss. I explained in article “Food Water and Air”  http://www.freewebs.com/lukatunjic/foodwaterandair.htm

Bored chemist wrote
I'm one of the lucky ones I eat what I like and don't seem to put on weight.

Understanding underlining mechanism of weight gain weight loss (what I trying to explain) every one can be “lucky”.

Luka Tunjic

http://www.freewebs.com/lukatunjic/

[that mad man]

GBSB  How does one define a naturally thin person, by what measurement?

Genes do help define a persons biological make-up and that includes weight. It is something that runs in families, large parents normally lead to large children. I know plenty of families where obesity is not a single instance but common throughout the whole family.

Human fat is not normal tissue, its a soluble lipid. It does not wast away like normal tissue as it is designed to be used as an energy store. In a sense it does not suffer from atrophy as it is used to provide energy when needed which can vary over time. 

Human metabolic waste contains little calories compared to what was eaten, its mainly bacteria, unused nutrients, fibre and bits of undigested food. What is wasted also depends on other factors, the type of food eaten, meat vegetables etc and whether cooked. A good balanced diet makes a difference too.

My snakes if given the correct food will convert and use around 95-98%% of intake, humans convert around 85% but that depends on the above.

I did read an article about a guy that survives on sunlight, fresh air and water alone.  []


TMM

[GBSB]

I think it's down to eating more calories than you burn and that some people's bodies burn off surplus calories as heat whereas other people's bodies hoard them as fat. I'm one of the lucky ones I eat what I like and don't seem to put on weight.

And possibly bacteria!

This is link where is for the first time introduced bacteriological theory.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/13/magazine/13obesity.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

Mentioning bacteria to explain why some people are more prone to obesity than another I can understand as how scientist involved in obesity research trying to hide own embarrassment by discovering fact that metabolic waste is full of calories. This fact is forgotten since introducing counting calories as scientific way of explanation why people are gaining weight.

What is interesting to me is that obesity scientist are still not sure does everyone’s body will use all available energy in the food and they do not bother to discovery more instead they quickly offer new theories based on genetic, micro-organisms and viruses.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/13/magazine/13obesity.html?ex=1156737600&en=123f4dfacec74087&ei=5070

It seems that plenty scientist still assume that metabolic waste is calories free.
See this link;http://www.guardian.co.uk/health/story/0,,1866485,00.html
 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/health/story/0,,1866485,00.html
Indeed, Nyström claims that for some people, eating 10% more will lead to their metabolism increasing at the same level. The extra energy will be burned off as body heat during sleep. "If that was not the case we would all have to keep track of every last calorie," he says.

If they measured energy at least in faeces they would find where is gone  missing number of calories is and it will not be necessary to invent some pointless “burning” theories.
It is hard to imagine that such theories can come from people who know that faeces as just one part of metabolic waste is full of calories. Such conclusion can be based only on assumption that faeces are calories free.

The real cause of fat formation on the body is explained in this link;
 http://www.freewebs.com/lukatunjic/foodwaterandair.htm

Luka Tunjic

http://www.freewebs.com/lukatunjic/

[GBSB]

I think there were a few posts more???. It seems that a few people deleted their posts.


However, the intention of my posts on this topic was to address the misconception on which is based theory about weigh gain and weight loss concerning body fat mass.

The entire science of obesity is made without taking in account that metabolic waste contains calories.    ...(It is embarrassing not only for people involved in research, treatment and prevention of obesity but as well as for every single person that have average education.)

Does anybody can present the evidence that confront to my statement?

Luka Tunjic
 Biomechanics and Weight Loss

[Karen W.]

I must say that if I am not regular I slowly gain weight over time.. if I increase my fiber intake on a daily basis I become very regular and thus over time I begin dropping unwanted weight without even trying... then by walking properly sitting properly as Luka has stated before in past posts, I do begin to drop unwanted pounds faster and my muscles seem to tone up well and I feel better!

[aspenback]

Its not as easy to lose the weight.We have to work hard on our diet and exercise in order to keep us slim.




newbielink:http://www.aspenback.com [nonactive]

[Don_1]

Yes it is.

How to lose 10lbs of ugly fat.......

Chop your head off