[Zwitterion (OP)]

Being a professional insomniac (definitely not by choice!!)...ive been thinking what specifically causes such major changes in mood?

is there a certain chemical or hormone which is suppressed or not released when u go thru a period of no sleep?...what im talking about is say on a good nights sleep a negative issue can be regarded as small whereas without sleep this same issue can seem huge, and motivational levels drop, postive thinking in my experience just declines drammatically.And why is it so hard to control your thinking to try and put a positive spin on things when u know the reason for ur mood is the lack of sleep and nothing else?

Obviosly fatigue has a part to play but does anyone know if there is a mechanism within r make-up which explains this?

any more ppl out there who experience this?

[Karen W.]

I think we all do. I can be like that and know I should just let something slide but letting it go becomes extremely hard when you don't have sleep.. I find I can be easily provoked and angered, but the weird thing is I can control it at work for the most part but when the guard is down at home I loose it. I think you feel more comfortable in your own home as you know those around you know you understand that it is not personal and allow for that space..Like a child who misbehaves at home constantly , but is an angel out in public.. The child is accepted at home regardless of its behavior.. He or she knows that no matter what my family loves me, the might get angry but they wont leave me or abandon me or and heres the big one STOP LOVING ME!! The same holds true for us I believe we feel that comfort zone at home. at least for me. I hate hurting peoples feelings or being angry in front of anyone let alone a stranger.. It is an acceptance thing I believe.. at least for me. I have learned to control my mood swings a lot better then I did when I was younger. I have learned to smile anyways even if I didn't feel like it . At least then I was giving myself the opportunity to find a smile and try to shake off the bad mood!! Sometimes are more difficult to deal with especially when it involves emotional love happiness sadness etc. When I haven't slept frustrations of Loneliness depression, everything seem to be more intense..I don't know the mechanics of it all.. but I have experienced different degrees of this at one time or another...

[JimBob]

Being of this type, I was highly interested to find that there is   more than 1 circadian rhythm normal to human beings. Those German research guys (they are always researching something) found this out by deleting all time clue from subjects in isolation rooms. Ny body clock runs on about a 35 hour cycle. But I am abnormal to the rest of the people.

It is the old human trait - if they don't fit in , kill them; now days by social pressure to destabilize the personality of the individual. In essence, we are lower on the pecking order and get it.

[Karen W.]

I believe what you say to be the truth as Even a smmall child I remember being wid awake at t night with Johhny Carson.. I would listen through the entire show every night and then still lie awake for hours afterwards before I could fall asleep. Usually in the 4 to 6 am range, then I would sleep well untilnoon or so.. So weird.. but it was the way I was way back. Eventually had my clock readjusted out of force.. But anymore I sleep when I am tired if I am not at work! And even then The hours are really not predictable at all.

[NewBill]

Each of my sons, now 18 and 21. passed through that period of being almost impossible to get up in the morning and staying up late at night.  I myself was an insomniac, or so I thought, in late high school and into University.  I tried everything to regulate myself including refusing to sleep in daylight if I had not slept at night.  That last bit led to having slept twice in seven days ... in the daytime at that.  Despite all efforts it seems I just passed out of the phase, although I was reading and trying to practice self hypnosis at the moment of the change.

I had no suggestions for my children, other than  a weak "it must be genetic and it will eventually pass comment.

Lo and behold an article appearing in the press detailed that 15 percent of teenage girls and 60% of teenage boys between the ages of 15 and 25, had a circadian rhythm of greater than 24 hours.  This led to a rolling forward of the sleep wake cycle.  Since students are locked into a rigid weekday schedule the majority of the time they would be out of sync.  The recommended parental behaviour was to "go with it" helping the kids make their schedules but accepting that occasionally it would just not be possible.

If you google circadian rhythm disorder or just circadian rhythm you will see that such theories are quite a rage.  As we get older our clocks slow down, we need less sleep and so on.  Shift workers suffer jet lag like symptoms. The inverse relationship of light and melatonin is thrown into the mix.  It's a wonder to me that we are all not nuts! As I sit here, in front of my bright screen at ~4:30 AM my time, having been up for an hour and a half already, listening to time shifted radio originating 8 hours advanced and contributing my 2 cents to this discussion, with people with whom I have no previous acquaintance, I realize that I must be nuts.

But then shivering awake in the dark, afraid of some animal with bigger teeth and claws than mine doesn't beckon nostalgically across time either. 

Being 'on the curve' for my age I find that I can indeed stimulate a positive mood most of the time and seek tolerance from those around me the rest of the time.  My sympathy to those who are 'on the tails'.  That said my inclination is to advise "go with it" as much as possible.

[Karen W.]

New Bill Do you Live in California or close also.. We seem to be on the same time zone.. I still do not sleep when Most people do Case in point here I sit reading your post also!! LOL Praying someone else will post and give me something quiet to do by posting Back.. Good luck to you too!

[Karen W.]

 I also Have an 18 year old boy and a 21 year old boy along with a 25 year old Daughter. That's quite a coincidence! LOL Are either of them married or close to it!

[NewBill]

Hi Karen.

I live on the West Coast of Canada, which is the same time zone. 

Nope the boys are not married and I sort of hope that they are not close to it since I am still enjoying the fact that they are at home still, well for the most part anyway. The younger one is in the run around phase and I don't see a lot of him.  He mumbles when I pry into his life.  He knows all my provocative gambits and at the moment is handling me quite nicely despite the problems with his raging hormones and out of whack circadian rhythm.

The older one is fitness and nutrition driven and though patient and circumspect of nature has difficulty with the opinions of one who presents as I do.  He is well researched and informed but reticent to engage beyond a certain point.

Both are quite stressed in ways that I know too well, but the passing of insight and experience must press through the interstices of  raging hormones and societal pressures.  I would do well to set aside my hammer too. :-)

[moonfire]

I find this most interesting as an insominac...It is now 3:47am and I snuck into the living room to get my laptop so I can see what is going on...I usually don't get to sleep until noon like Karen, but get an average of 2-3hrs of sleep..this surely is not good for the heart, etc...your thoughts?

[Karen W.]

Hi Karen.

I live on the West Coast of Canada, which is the same time zone. 

Nope the boys are not married and I sort of hope that they are not close to it since I am still enjoying the fact that they are at home still, well for the most part anyway. The younger one is in the run around phase and I don't see a lot of him.  He mumbles when I pry into his life.  He knows all my provocative gambits and at the moment is handling me quite nicely despite the problems with his raging hormones and out of whack circadian rhythm.

The older one is fitness and nutrition driven and though patient and circumspect of nature has difficulty with the opinions of one who presents as I do.  He is well researched and informed but reticent to engage beyond a certain point.

Both are quite stressed in ways that I know too well, but the passing of insight and experience must press through the interstices of  raging hormones and societal pressures.  I would do well to set aside my hammer too. :-)

LOL.. Sounds like a couple nice healthy young bucks you have there!!Yeah you might set the hammer aside...LOL.

Sound like perfectly normal young boys to me.. I figured you must be close.. Hows the weather today?

I slept two hours, almost this morning but none for the previous day and here it isgoing on day three and I have had just under two hours of sleep.. Feeling pretty stresed right now and extremely worn out tired and emotional.. Felt like I was on my way earlier as my head bobbed so I signed out and went to lay down, but it was like a firealarm.. "Hold on now she's trying to lay us down for a nap....We will have none of that cat napping around here...." LOL My body declared war on my sleepy eyes and subconscience mind won again so Here I sit still at 2:20 AM. wishing I could sleep!!

I find this most interesting as an insominac...It is now 3:47am and I snuck into the living room to get my laptop so I can see what is going on...I usually don't get to sleep until noon like Karen, but get an average of 2-3hrs of sleep..this surely is not good for the heart, etc...your thoughts?

It's not good for anything Loretta.. My face feels tingly and numb and my ears start popping as I try to yawn in hopes it will induce sleep! I just had a question pop into my head.. I best go put it in the proper place..

[Zwitterion (OP)]

hey guys thanks for your comments and sorry to hear abt ur sleeping Karen, i know exactly how you feel!!

Try not to be too negative, sometimes its hard tho when u go thru a particularly bad period of no sleeping. Do u ever take sleeping tablets?...i always steered clear from them, but recently im having to take them to be normal and do things i have planned to do. I was always finding i'd be cancelling everything as my sleeping was never predicatable but these tablets are helping.

Are you working at the moment?...or can u afford to make up for ur sleep during the day?

does anybody know if seratonin levels decrease if u dont get enough sleep?

[Karen W.]

I am a preschool Teacher and work 5 days a week. I love my job, but do not get a chance to sleep during the day.. Funny when I was younger I could nap easily during the day, even a year ago, I could crawl back into bed and sleep a bit in the afternoon on a day off. These days naps are far and few in between.. I have recently missed work because I was not well. I hate missing work as I love my Job!

Hey what is the difference between seratonin and melatonin, Me thinks I may have them confused...? I better get out me dictionary!

[elegantlywasted]

It is funny that you bring up younger people having different schedules than others. My high school implemented a late day policy (Wednesdays classes started at 9:30 instead of 8:15) They figured out that students (in general) tested better on Wednesdays than any other day of the week. I completley understand and agree. I still (at 22) prefer to stay up later, I am still up naturally before 9:30 every morning and I contribute that to the fact that I'm not a parent. In summary I totally think that circaduim rhythms change (mainly shorten) with age. Think about it, there is a reason Grandma is out like a light after the evening news and is awake before the chickens.....

[Karen W.]

yes as i get older its worse, but 2 to 4 hours  is not enough to sleep.. It can make one really hard to get along with.

[neilep]

LOL...me only knows how to live my life as an insomniac as I know no other way.  It's been far too long (36 years) since i had a semblance of  " normal " sleep......I have no indication of temporal sleeplessness...it has been relentless...day in..day out..night in..night out since I was 6 years old.

Though..I suspect that it is a life with a plenitude of insomnia that I think may be the reason behind my mood swings *just shut the **** up I'm talking here*..oops..sorry...*slaps own arse and face*

I was once diagnosed as having phased Delay syndrome..by one of the myriad of specialists I have seen through the years and this was to indicate that my circadian rhythm (i believe mentioned elsewhere\ in this fine thread) was out of sync....a short course of melatonin was supposed to sort this out !!....well of course it did not and I was summarily discharged  !!....He was a great specialist !!....LOL


When you're knackered...even the smallest thing can cause a mood swing because you don't have the energy to deal with it accordingly....concentration takes a nose dive and ' exaggeration ' of senses rules your world. Me is sure this is all down to fatigue. I don't know the biology of it but to me this all sounds quite rational.
you get exhausted...you get weak...you get depressed...you get down...lethargy caves in...........this proves that you need energy to be an optimist...to be happy !! ...smiling takes an effort...crying is a release.....that's why I'm a bloody pessimist !!..LOL....resistance gets low and it is a real effort to find some joy !..however...I suppose (in my mind this is theory as I have never actually had a good nights sleep in such a long time) a nice long sleep really refuels you...body heals....mind is alert....you wake up and jump out of bed like the friggin kellogs corn flake golden family !!..........plus...i wonder if those with a high metabolic rate always wake up with a hop, a skip and a smile !!

YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY !!...husg that Zwitterion !!!

[Karen W.]

A full nights sleep comes occassionally for me usually after extreme stress, which concerns me as then I feel Like I won't wake up.. And when I do seven times out of ten I am overrested or more tired feeling then I was before.. LOL doesn't make sense, but the one really nice thing about a long sleep is the humongest ability to stretch out like a cat and feel everything pulling and twisting and contorting in such pleasure its unbelieveably good...

[Zwitterion (OP)]

looks likeim going to be a moody cow again tomorrow!!....

[Karen W.]

I am sorry. No sleep again eh? I wish I had some fairy dust for you... LOL I hope your day goes well tomorrow.

[neilep]

This thread is about Insomnia and mood swings!!....

Well, me might be in the mood for swinging but my insomnia means I'm too knackered to do anything about it..LOL !!

[Karen W.]

Sorry neil.. wish you could get some sleep.. I know I know.. not since.......LOL I still wish it so..