[Quantumcat]

quote:Originally posted by Ultima

Would it not be possible that in the future we use a device that doesn't require measurements of everything, but uses quantum effects such as entanglement on a large scale?

I didn't read everything but I wanted to say that they already did that, at the ANU university in Canberra, Australia. The problem that needed to be mounted in teleportation was the heisenburg thingo, which says that you can't know a particle's position and direction at the same time (because if you know a position it could be going in any direction but if you take two if could do anything in between like an arc of a circle for example not a straight line like you thought, and if you put the two closer and closer together they'll become one point then you'll have the first problem again) (and to teleport, you have to take all the mesurements of a thing then recontruct it elsewhere by sending the information there, and to do that properly you have to know everything about every particle in the object) but you obviously know about quantum entanglement so I don't have to try and explain that lol and they used that to have all the infprmation about a photon then they teleported it about three meters away.

Am I dead? Am I alive? I'm both!

[Quantumcat]

quote:Originally posted by Ultima

Would it not be possible that in the future we use a device that doesn't require measurements of everything, but uses quantum effects such as entanglement on a large scale?

I didn't read everything but I wanted to say that they already did that, at the ANU university in Canberra, Australia. The problem that needed to be mounted in teleportation was the heisenburg thingo, which says that you can't know a particle's position and direction at the same time (because if you know a position it could be going in any direction but if you take two if could do anything in between like an arc of a circle for example not a straight line like you thought, and if you put the two closer and closer together they'll become one point then you'll have the first problem again) (and to teleport, you have to take all the mesurements of a thing then recontruct it elsewhere by sending the information there, and to do that properly you have to know everything about every particle in the object) but you obviously know about quantum entanglement so I don't have to try and explain that lol and they used that to have all the infprmation about a photon then they teleported it about three meters away.

Am I dead? Am I alive? I'm both!

[Whitestar (OP)]

quote:Originally posted by cannabinoid

Hi whitestar, welcome to the forums.  

Teleportation is a cool theory and I think something we may eventually be able to do, but there are some criteria that must be met before we can.  (probably take 500-1000 years or so before we get there) So, bearing all these advances in mind, I'm thinking you might want to look into something like space-folding or wormholes instead of disassembly-assembly unless you're planning on setting this thousands of years in the future.

1) Do you think teleportation that works by disassembling a person at the atomic level will be possible in the far future?


You mentioned that teleportation might be a reality between 500 to 1,000 years from now.


2) How do you think it would probably work?


Whitestar

[Whitestar (OP)]

quote:Originally posted by cannabinoid

Hi whitestar, welcome to the forums.  

Teleportation is a cool theory and I think something we may eventually be able to do, but there are some criteria that must be met before we can.  (probably take 500-1000 years or so before we get there)

First of all, there doesn't exist a technology to convert matter to energy then reassemble that matter exactly as it was found...at least not with complex biomolecules.  Thermodynamics has a lot to do with it.  The amount of energy it would take to counteract the HUGE change in entropy of the system of your body is probably quite large.  While "disorder" isn't the correct way to describe entropy, it is analogous when dealing with changing a solid into a system of particles.  

The method of converting the matter to energy is in question too.  I can convert you to energy by burning you, but that would sorta defeat the purpose since we can't un-burn something.  If you're disassembling the human body, there are chemical reactions involved in the cracking of all of those bonds.  You will need one of two things:  a reaction that is spontaneous for the conditions in which you're teleporting or highly developed nanotechnology that is capable of reassembling an organism from other materials.

So, bearing all these advances in mind, I'm thinking you might want to look into something like space-folding or wormholes instead of disassembly-assembly unless you're planning on setting this thousands of years in the future.  I think it would be unreasonable to believe that all of the above sciences advanced that far in a short time from now.

But imagine for the sake of argument that teleportation were to be accomplish by converting a person into energy and you had the technology to reverse the process. In addition, you send the information along with the energy.



1) The question is, would the person survive the procedure, or would the individual cease to exist and be replaced with a replica, who was literally born into existence once the energy was reconverted back into matter along with the information?


You mentioned that if I decide to set the story 500 to 1,000 in the future, I may employ the disassembly/assembly teleporter.


2) Are you saying that the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle will eventually be broken or bypassed in the far future?


Whitestar

[tweener]

It would seem to me that if you truly put all the pieces back together exactly as they were in the first place, then by definition, the person would survive and the "replica" would be indistingushable from the original.

As for the Heisenberg Uncertainty, it is part of Quantum Mechanics, which I have never really felt was complete.  A lot of real scientists feel the same by the way.  I believe it is entirely possible that we may overcome this in the future.

As to how far in the future, science appears to be progressing at an exponential rate.  If this curve continues, it may not be centuries, but merely decades to develop technologies that now seem completely impossible.  Consider what someone in 1900 would think of the technology of 2000 - a lot of things are happening that would have been "impossible".

----
John - The Eternal Pessimist.

[Ultima]

1,000 YEARS!!!! look back 1000 years ago, our technology now would be considered magic to people a 1000 years ago, or even a few hundred.

wOw the world spins?

[neilep]

Yep...agree totally...one could almost imagine that 1000 or 2000 years ago people may have thought they were witnessing miraculous events....uh oh !!...hmmm...makes you think doesn't it ?

'Men are the same as women...just inside out !'

[Dan B]

"The Science of Star Trek" is written by Lawrence Krauss of Berkeley I believe.

The Uncertainty principle is even simplier than the previous attempt at explaination: To know the position and velocity of a particle you need to detect it. In detecting it you have to bounce of photon off of it. Bouncing a photon off of another photon would change its velocity. The more accuratly you know one, the less accurately you know the other...

Anyway, I believe in Star Trek they use hiesenburg compensators, which probably calculate the effect of bouncing photons off of the test particle and iterating back to the original velocity and position....



p.s. I believe the comment about "why would you want to speed up the universe" as made in reference to model if the usinvers, rather than the univserse itself. As it is at the moment we have a fairly good model of the universe anyway...