[jeffreyH]

OK So you are one of those people who think gay people can be "cured". Please correct me if I am wrong. Usually this mean ultra orthodox religious views.

[exothermic]

OK So you are one of those people who think gay people can be "cured". Please correct me if I am wrong. Usually this mean ultra orthodox religious views.

lol... How do you "cure" a preference?

So enough with the diversions. Back to the scientific evidence... or in this instance - complete lack thereof:

You mentioned something about links. Keep them coming if you'd like, but I'm quite familiar with peer-reviewed research.... and there is zero evidence indicating that courtship behavior or sexual orientation is predetermined. Likewise, there never will be.

The hypothalamus is where sexual drive and parturition originates - but those are formed throughout development. There's a good reason why we don't think about sex or sexual orientation when we're infants. Anyone with a basic understanding of fetal or neonatal development knows the complexity of intrauterine and/or extrauterine homeostasis, and the HPA-axis at this period is consumed with the biological maturation of vital organ systems such as the central nervous system, lungs and liver. The notion that sexual preference is "hard-wired" is utter foolishness.

[IAMREALITY]

Not sure it's a fully understood situation yet, but what's for certain is that it isn't a 'choice', nor is it something that can be 'cured', nor that it's due to how they were raised etc, as some of the ignorant out there believe.  What's for certain, is that it's a part of their core, who they are, and that something somewhere along the way, whether through fetal development, brain development, or genetics etc, something gets glitched and instead of having their standard orientation towards the opposite sex will instead be oriented towards their own.  It's not a 'preference', it's a part of who they are.  That much is fact and certain, even if it's not yet fully understood as to the 'why'. 

The important part to know though is that they are people just as much as those with standard orientations, are far more often even more decent and moral, are some of the most wonderful human beings you'll ever come across, and deserve to be treated with just as much respect, dignity, kindness, grace, love and support as anyone else.  That's the only thing that really kinda matters at the end of the day, and the thing that society really needs to do better with; though admittedly we've come a long way.

[IAMREALITY]

PS: Wow.. just read through all the replies... I'm astounded that so much ignorance can be found on an intelligent forum like this.  Really saddens me in fact.  Just totally disappointed to find some of what I read here...  Obviously far more work needs to be done... 

[exothermic]

It's not a 'preference', it's a part of who they are. That much is fact and certain

You are wrong - unequivocally. You'd need an elementary understanding of physiology for your statement to hold any merit. "It's part of who they are" means nothing from a physiological or scientific aspect. Sexual orientation is in fact a preference which is not predetermined - but adopted during childhood development or as an adult. Pick up a textbook.

~

[exothermic]

The important part to know though is that they are people just as much as those with standard orientations

No... it's not "the important part to know"

This is a science forum. Did you happen to catch the thread tittle?

Is homosexuality genetic?

Save your moral speeches for some other forum please. Your comments are utterly void of scientific context, and have no bearing on the topic in question.

~

[IAMREALITY]

It's not a 'preference', it's a part of who they are. That much is fact and certain

You are wrong - unequivocally. You'd need an elementary understanding of physiology for your statement to hold any merit. "It's part of who they are" means nothing from a physiological or scientific aspect. Sexual orientation is in fact a preference which is not predetermined - but adopted during childhood development or as an adult. Pick up a textbook.

~

What a load of malarkey.  No, you don't choose somewhere along the way based on your upbringing as to which gender you're gonna find yourself attracted to and identifying with.  It's just beyond absurd.  They, just like us, feel it as part of their core identity, and it most definitely is an orientation and not a 'preference'.  It is their core identity.  They do not 'choose' that identity.  It is simply part of them.  That much is certain and isn't even up for debate. 

[IAMREALITY]

The important part to know though is that they are people just as much as those with standard orientations

No... it's not "the important part to know"

This is a science forum. Did you happen to catch the thread tittle?

Is homosexuality genetic?

Save your moral speeches for some other forum please. Your comments are utterly void of scientific context, and have no bearing on the topic in question.

~

It's absolutely the most important part to know, science forum or otherwise.  And I'll present my moral speeches anywhere I damn well please, and will not seek your permission to do so.  And if you cared about science so much, you'd actually rely on it. 

1-2% of those who have gone through conversion therapy succeeded.  Pretty sure if it was a 'preference' that number would be, ya know, higher and stuff... 

Anyway, not even gonna debate this issue with you.  I find your position to be disgusting, shameful and hurtful to the community, along with some others replies here.  But like I said, it isn't even up for debate.  It is part of who they are at their core,  biologically.  It is not a choice.  It is not a preference.  It is not something learned.  Period.  Fact.  Shame on those who want to claim otherwise.  Just friggin disgusting.  Goodbye.

[exothermic]

It is their core identity.  They do not 'choose' that identity.

Tell that to my gay neighbor who was married to a man for 23-years, had 3 kids.... then turned gay. The examples go on and on.

That much is certain and isn't even up for debate.

...... said IAMREALITY...... lol

[exothermic]

It's absolutely the most important part to know, science forum or otherwise.  And I'll present my moral speeches anywhere I damn well please, and will not seek your permission to do so.  And if you cared about science so much, you'd actually rely on it. 

1-2% of those who have gone through conversion therapy succeeded.  Pretty sure if it was a 'preference' that number would be, ya know, higher and stuff... 

Anyway, not even gonna debate this issue with you.  I find your position to be disgusting, shameful and hurtful to the community, along with some others replies here.  But like I said, it isn't even up for debate.  It is part of who they are at their core,  biologically.  It is not a choice.  It is not a preference.  It is not something learned.  Period.  Fact.  Shame on those who want to claim otherwise.  Just friggin disgusting.

Your posts are laden with drivel and zero science. Wrong forum.

~

[exothermic]

I find your position to be disgusting, shameful and hurtful to the community, along with some others replies here.

Oh please.

Again..... wrong forum.

This thread isn't about the morality of being gay, or how to treat gay people as individuals.... it's about the [fact] that sexual orientation has nothing to do with genetics, nor is it predetermined at birth. Anybody with a basic understanding of embryonic or neonatal brain development knows that sexual preference is adopted during childhood development or as an adult. Get a clue.

~

[IAMREALITY]

It is their core identity.  They do not 'choose' that identity.

Tell that to my gay neighbor who was married to a man for 23-years, had 3 kids.... then turned gay. The examples go on and on.

That much is certain and isn't even up for debate.

...... said IAMREALITY...... lol

I find your arrogance to be filled with irony... that you actually think the intelligent audience of this forum overall will be reading my position in this thread and finding it worthy of mockery, yet reading your positions, such as gay people just 'poof!' turning gay, and looking at them with admiration.  You couldn't be more misguided.  I'll let your words, absurdities, and positions speak for themselves towards the intellectual audience.  I don't need to say a thing about them.  You'll see no further replies from me.  I don't need to wage argument in defense of something the intellectual community already knows to be obvious.

[jeffreyH]

Just so that I won't be accused of bias, here is another viewpoint.

https://socialinqueery.com/2013/03/18/no-one-is-born-gay-or-straight-here-are-5-reasons-why/

[jeffreyH]

And just to be thorough.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/is-homosexuality-a-choice/

[exothermic]

Just so that I won't be accused of bias, here is another viewpoint.

https://socialinqueery.com/2013/03/18/no-one-is-born-gay-or-straight-here-are-5-reasons-why/

And just to be thorough.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/is-homosexuality-a-choice/

Thanks for the links however, none of the research is based on embryonic or postnatal development. Neuroimaging data of an adult brain does nothing to support the false notion that sexual orientation is "hard-wired" or predetermined.

~

[jeffreyH]

Just so that I won't be accused of bias, here is another viewpoint.

https://socialinqueery.com/2013/03/18/no-one-is-born-gay-or-straight-here-are-5-reasons-why/

And just to be thorough.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/is-homosexuality-a-choice/

Thanks for the links however, none of the research is based on embryonic or postnatal development. Neuroimaging data of an adult brain does nothing to support the false notion that sexual orientation is "hard-wired" or predetermined.

~

I never said it was based on research of any kind. Simply that the views differed from those I had previously posted.

[IAMREALITY]

And just to be thorough.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/is-homosexuality-a-choice/

The other link I couldn't get over how ignorant the author was.  Her logic was so tragically flawed.

This link was good though.  There was also this part:

So your brain was influencing your sexual preference even before you were born.
This can explain why many gay people feel that they have always been gay.

And also so many studies referenced showing the evidence that it is biological in nature overall.  Just kinda surprised in the 21st century there are still those that believe it to be a choice.  But, well, then again, we have those ignoramus climate change deniers too, and people that still think the earth is only 5000 years old, so I guess maybe I shouldn't be so surprised.

[exothermic]

I never said it was based on research of any kind. Simply that the views differed from those I had previously posted.

I appreciate the different viewpoints however, none of those views lend any scientific credence whatsoever to the notion that sexual orientation is predetermined.

[jeffreyH]

There is never a simple cause in biological or social development. No evidence can be completely ruled out as a factor. However the weight to be placed on any one factor has to be determined in light of all available evidence. The answer is likely to be somewhere in between the extremes.

[exothermic]

so many studies referenced showing the evidence that it is biological in nature overall.

Nope.... there was zero scientific evidence provided in those links to support your opinion - and if you think there were.... present them and I'll demonstrate how the assertion is utterly false.