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  4. Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
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Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #11400 on: 31/01/2011 17:52:05 »
Quote from: dbfd588 on 31/01/2011 04:57:27
My POIS started with palpatations and the symptoms grew from there. Ive been to a cardiologist twice. He said my heart is great. They said I do have murmor but nothing to worry about. I ask him if maybe it could be a leaky valve. He assured me it was nothing. My palpatations are gone now but I do get the throbbing and racing feel during POIS.

I also get palpitations, although only if the other symptoms are really bad.

Lately my biggest trouble has been with aphasia -- expressing myself in sentences, and remembering words.  Sometimes there are big pauses in my speech.  I'll forget things like the street name where I live, etc.  It also considerably slows down my reading speed.

This does seem to get better when I have been out of POIS for awhile, but it concerns me.
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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #11401 on: 31/01/2011 17:57:14 »
I saw the post about gabapentin and started to do some more reading....

It seems like the new drug 'Pregabalin' might be worth considering:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregabalin

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #11402 on: 31/01/2011 18:10:13 »

POIS Conquers Microsoft! (MSN Health! [;D])
http://health.msn.com/health-topics/sexual-health/mens-sexual-health/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100269396
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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #11403 on: 31/01/2011 18:20:06 »
Quote from: demografx on 31/01/2011 18:10:13

POIS Conquers Microsoft! (MSN Health! [;D])
http://health.msn.com/health-topics/sexual-health/mens-sexual-health/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100269396

This is an interesting article. It presents physicians being sceptical about the auto-immune hypothesis. 

"If they were allergic, they’d have a reaction when they produced it internally, too. That’s why I find it hard to believe," says David Resnick, M.D., director of allergy at New York-Presbyterian Hospital Columbia.

To counter Dr. Resnick's statement, I would ask him to consider vasectomy patients.  Many vasectomies are not reversible, because people are thought to develop an auto-immune reaction to sperm after the operation removes the physical barrier of Sertoli cells. 

In this article:
http://ihealthbulletin.com/blog/2007/02/13/vasectomy-may-lead-to-dementia-from-autoimmune-brain-damage/

It says that 60-70% of men who have had vasectomies develop antibodies to their own sperm.  It seems that Dr. Resnick is not aware of this literature.

I agree the auto-immune hypothesis may be wrong, but it seems the opinions in that article are a bit misinformed.

I don't know where they get these statements:
"Once thought to be a psychological illness"
and
"researchers estimate that it affects less than one percent of the population".

What researchers?

Perhaps we should write a letter to the author:
"Andrew Daniels for Men's Health "
« Last Edit: 31/01/2011 18:24:13 by Counterpoints »
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Offline gabin

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #11404 on: 31/01/2011 18:31:31 »
Quote from: demografx on 31/01/2011 15:16:17
edit - From a physician friend just now received: "I don't know if it is as destructive as cocaine and heroin (which would do the same job), but tramadol is a synthetic opioid.  Used very judiciously, that is no big deal.  It would be like people who take a Vicodin once in a while when their back goes out.  I don't really know if Tramadol 100 mg is a lot or not.  Gabapentin 300 mg is not a lot."  
Thank you for clarifying, Demo, but I didn't mean to be pretentious at all. Just wanted to stress that possible side effects of these drugs may be really lethal. It really should be given only with a receipt and only in severe cases to cease pain (spasms or oncological diseases).

Regarding Counterpoints' post, I wonder if symptoms of people who develop antibodies to their own semen after vasectomy reversal are somewhat identical to ours, can anybody illuminate this?
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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #11405 on: 31/01/2011 19:01:14 »
Quote from: Counterpoints on 31/01/2011 18:20:06
Quote from: demografx on 31/01/2011 18:10:13

POIS Conquers Microsoft! (MSN Health! [;D])
http://health.msn.com/health-topics/sexual-health/mens-sexual-health/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100269396

I don't know where they get these statements:
"Once thought to be a psychological illness"
and
"researchers estimate that it affects less than one percent of the population".

What researchers?

Perhaps we should write a letter to the author:
"Andrew Daniels for Men's Health "


Makes you mad!! I know sometimes we can say something silly not being experts and not really looking into the details, but nobody takes us real serious. But these guys have licences, so they are taken seriously even when they've said something silly without looking into the details and not really being experts in the field.

Who's going to write....


Quote from: gabin on 31/01/2011 18:31:31

...... Regarding Counterpoints' post, I wonder if symptoms of people who develop antibodies to their own semen after vasectomy reversal are somewhat identical to ours, can anybody illuminate this?



I had a vasectomy for 22 yrs. and didn't have one symptom, in fact was healthier than ever (of course I WAS in my prime, sigh). I quoted a doctor a while back. Something to the effect that you can have anti-bodies in your blood, but will have no allergic reaction because the sperm don't enter the bloodstream where they can be attacked by these anti-bodies. Even with a normal vasectomy, the sperm are contained (outside of the bloodstream) where they are destroyed and disposed of in a safe manner.

Granted, it's a knee-jerk question that even a doctor might ask, but he doesn't bother to take the time to ask WHY a vasectomy patient DOESN'T suffer from anti-body attacks, which would lead him to understand WHY what Dr. Waldinger says makes perfect sense.

Even normal vasectomy reversals don't produce problems with the anti-bodies because the sperm and semen "normally remain isolated".

I eventually got POIS, because (I assume) a gap was formed (after my reversal) which allowed my sperm to come in contact with my blood and the anti-bodies therein.


« Last Edit: 31/01/2011 19:09:51 by daveman »
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Offline gabin

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #11406 on: 31/01/2011 19:58:41 »
Thus, as fas as I understand your explanation, blending of blood and sperm is mandatory to cause the autoimmune reaction? And hence, each of us suffering from POIS must possess a gap or some other reason for leakage of sperm beyond the sperm ducts and urinary tract?
This leads to the conclusion that POIS is of a traumatic etymology.
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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #11407 on: 31/01/2011 20:15:39 »
Quote from: gabin on 31/01/2011 18:31:31
Quote from: demografx on 31/01/2011 15:16:17
edit - From a physician friend just now received: "I don't know if it is as destructive as cocaine and heroin (which would do the same job), but tramadol is a synthetic opioid.  Used very judiciously, that is no big deal.  It would be like people who take a Vicodin once in a while when their back goes out.  I don't really know if Tramadol 100 mg is a lot or not.  Gabapentin 300 mg is not a lot."  
Thank you for clarifying, Demo, but I didn't mean to be pretentious at all. Just wanted to stress that possible side effects of these drugs may be really lethal. It really should be given only with a receipt and only in severe cases to cease pain (spasms or oncological diseases).


Not pretentious at all! I agree wholeheartedly.
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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #11408 on: 31/01/2011 20:26:06 »
Quote from: daveman on 31/01/2011 19:01:14
Quote from: Counterpoints on 31/01/2011 18:20:06

I don't know where they get these statements:
"Once thought to be a psychological illness"
and
"researchers estimate that it affects less than one percent of the population".

Perhaps we should write a letter to the author:
"Andrew Daniels for Men's Health "


Who's going to write....


I think Counterpoints and/or daveman could just Reply to Andrew Daniels with the same posts from here and that would be effective!
AndrewJDaniels@Gmail.com
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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #11409 on: 31/01/2011 20:41:22 »
Andrew Daniels is fresh out of college, not a seasoned writer. His resume is on the Web.
www.andrewjdaniels.com
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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #11410 on: 31/01/2011 21:04:12 »
Quote from: gabin on 31/01/2011 19:58:41
Thus, as fas as I understand your explanation, blending of blood and sperm is mandatory to cause the autoimmune reaction? And hence, each of us suffering from POIS must possess a gap or some other reason for leakage of sperm beyond the sperm ducts and urinary tract?
This leads to the conclusion that POIS is of a traumatic etymology.

More or less. It appears "the gap" is necesary, although one may not necesarilly assume that it is of traumatic etymology. It could be a birth defect which produced thin walls at a critical point for instance. Other cases could be produced by a disease or infection which I guess could be considered traumatic.

We're also interested in isolating semen components, not just sperm. [:)]

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #11411 on: 31/01/2011 21:07:46 »
Sent to Andrew Daniels:

Quote
Dear Andrew Daniels,

Thank you for an interesting article about the "orgasm flu". I am writing you because there are significant factual errors in the article, which could cause POIS patients to needlessly suffer and to be treated unfairly.

The physician you quote, Dr. Resnick, appears to be unaware of the medical literature relating to auto-immune sperm allergies.  It is said that 60-70% of men who have had a vasectomy develop an auto-immune reaction to their own sperm, because the physical barrier of Sertoli cells is removed.  This is why many vasectomies are not reversible.  To quote from a 2007 medical article (linked below),

"Certain organs – including the testes and the brain – exist in what is the equivalent of a gated community in the body. Tiny tubes within the testes (in which sperm are produced) are protected by a physical barrier of Sertoli cells. The tight connections between these cells prevent blood-borne infections and poisonous molecules from entering the semen.

After a vasectomy, however, the protective barrier is broken and semen mixes into the blood. The immune system recognizes the sperm as invading foreign agents and produces anti-sperm antibodies in 60 to 70 percent of men."

Also, the statements "once thought to be a psychological illness" and "researchers estimate that it affects less than one percent of the population" are untrue.  POIS was not known to the medical community prior to 2002, so it was never generally thought to be a psychological illness.  Likewise, no researchers have attempted to estimate what percent of the population are affected by POIS. This latter statistic may be due to confusion with studies done on post orgasmic headaches.

Finally, the symptom list, which is now routinely getting circulated by the media, is not especially accurate.  The wikipedia article on POIS is a more accurate characterisation.  Specifically, the cognitive problems are severe, and often appear in patients who have no physical symptoms.  One of the significant cognitive problems is aphasia -- finding it difficult to formulate thoughts into sentences, having trouble remembering words, and having difficult reading and absorbing information.  These symptoms are notable, but transient.  They disappear after about a week following orgasm.

Could you please amend your article, for the sake of the many people who have this condition and are hoping for treatment and further research?

Thank you.

Links:
http://ihealthbulletin.com/blog/2007/02/13/vasectomy-may-lead-to-dementia-from-autoimmune-brain-damage/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POIS
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Offline John21 (OP)

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #11412 on: 31/01/2011 23:39:54 »
Quote from: Counterpoints on 31/01/2011 21:07:46
Sent to Andrew Daniels:

Quote
Dear Andrew Daniels,

Thank you for an interesting article about the "orgasm flu". I am writing you because there are significant factual errors in the article, which could cause POIS patients to needlessly suffer and to be treated unfairly.

The physician you quote, Dr. Resnick, appears to be unaware of the medical literature relating to auto-immune sperm allergies.  It is said that 60-70% of men who have had a vasectomy develop an auto-immune reaction to their own sperm, because the physical barrier of Sertoli cells is removed.  This is why many vasectomies are not reversible.  To quote from a 2007 medical article (linked below),

"Certain organs – including the testes and the brain – exist in what is the equivalent of a gated community in the body. Tiny tubes within the testes (in which sperm are produced) are protected by a physical barrier of Sertoli cells. The tight connections between these cells prevent blood-borne infections and poisonous molecules from entering the semen.

After a vasectomy, however, the protective barrier is broken and semen mixes into the blood. The immune system recognizes the sperm as invading foreign agents and produces anti-sperm antibodies in 60 to 70 percent of men."

Also, the statements "once thought to be a psychological illness" and "researchers estimate that it affects less than one percent of the population" are untrue.  POIS was not known to the medical community prior to 2002, so it was never generally thought to be a psychological illness.  Likewise, no researchers have attempted to estimate what percent of the population are affected by POIS. This latter statistic may be due to confusion with studies done on post orgasmic headaches.

Finally, the symptom list, which is now routinely getting circulated by the media, is not especially accurate.  The wikipedia article on POIS is a more accurate characterisation.  Specifically, the cognitive problems are severe, and often appear in patients who have no physical symptoms.  One of the significant cognitive problems is aphasia -- finding it difficult to formulate thoughts into sentences, having trouble remembering words, and having difficult reading and absorbing information.  These symptoms are notable, but transient.  They disappear after about a week following orgasm.

Could you please amend your article, for the sake of the many people who have this condition and are hoping for treatment and further research?

Thank you.

Links:
http://ihealthbulletin.com/blog/2007/02/13/vasectomy-may-lead-to-dementia-from-autoimmune-brain-damage/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POIS

Well written CP!
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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #11413 on: 01/02/2011 00:24:10 »
Excellent, CP!
« Last Edit: 01/02/2011 00:37:46 by demografx »
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Offline POIS-SUFFERER

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #11414 on: 01/02/2011 00:35:48 »
This "gap" we are looking for, or the faulty blood sperm barrier, could this be my Spermatocele http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/443432-overview

The DR found this a few years back, around the same time my POIS started!

If this "buldge" broke or allow sperm to leak into the blood......

Thoughts?

PS.
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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #11415 on: 01/02/2011 00:36:46 »
Quote from: Counterpoints on 31/01/2011 18:20:06

I don't know where they get...

"researchers estimate that it affects less than one percent of the population".


I think wikipedia states 1/4 to 1% of the population?
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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #11416 on: 01/02/2011 00:40:26 »
Quote from: POIS-SUFFERER on 01/02/2011 00:35:48

This "gap" we are looking for, or the faulty blood sperm barrier, could this be my Spermatocele http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/443432-overview

The DR found this a few years back, around the same time my POIS started!

If this "buldge" broke or allow sperm to leak into the blood......

Thoughts?

PS.


You just woke up a dormant memory of my "spermatocele" comments from my urologist. It's been years, but I'll check in with him next time about it.
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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #11417 on: 01/02/2011 00:58:24 »
Quote from: demografx on 01/02/2011 00:36:46
Quote from: Counterpoints on 31/01/2011 18:20:06

I don't know where they get...

"researchers estimate that it affects less than one percent of the population".


I think wikipedia states 1/4 to 1% of the population?

Yeah, that's where I saw it too, now that you mention it!!
Ya see? With Wikipedia everybody can be an expert! [:D][:D]

"Experts say". Ohh I like that!
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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #11418 on: 01/02/2011 01:02:24 »
B_Jim, one day your "POIS cases in the forum and elsewhere on the internet" would make a fascinating "compendium", like Pyropeach's, that we could put up on the website.

Really excellent what you have done!!
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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #11419 on: 01/02/2011 01:04:19 »
Quote from: daveman on 01/02/2011 00:58:24

Ya see? With Wikipedia everybody can be an expert! [:D][:D]

"Experts say". Ohh I like that!


Yes, especially since we wrote it (mostly Counterpoints).
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