[imre1]

Also if you want some medicin. Consider taking a seditive before engaging in sexual activity. In my country you can buy feeding supplements (sedixx) for people with ADHD to make them more relaxed.

With these kind of pills it should also be possible to keep your orgasm down.

[demografx]

This is wonderful demografx. ....it's so refreshing to hear of the positive consequences this forum exudes....

We also thank YOU and the participants of this thread for their valuable contributions.

Neil, thank you for caring! POIS - for most sufferers - has been a very lonely existence before this Forum. Physicians, therapists, psychiatrists, etc. look at us like we're crazy, they have no idea what we're talking about! Or they think it's because we weren't breast-fed properly or somesuch psychological nonsense. I THANK YOU - AND MY FELLOW SUFFERERS - FOR BEING HERE!

[demografx]

...some 20% of people with post orgasmic problems are female.

Your post is very interesting. Can you tell us where the above statistic was found? I would like to read more about it. Thanks!

[imre1]

Actualy the figure is the well-known one for benign coital headache (including post coital headache).

Here is a case of a woman in Italy that had pretty much the same thing as me.

http://www.health24.com/medical/Condition_centres/777-792-1077-1714,18497.asp

[imre1]

"Waldinger has seen five Dutch men in as many years in his practice
complaining of flu-like symptoms including a sore throat, sweating, extreme
fatigue and eye irritation after sex."

This makes me believe that there realy is no such thing as POIS. The symptoms are too similar to post coïtal headache/migraine. (Which by the way nobody knows what causes it.)

[imre1]

(1) to try to have a good, powerful, romantically-fueled vs. weak experience and (2) to not have "too many" releases close together, which varies from person to person.

There is a document on the web called "your brain on sex" (http://www.reuniting.info/science/sex_in_the_brain) which pretty much explains the dynamics.

The interesting part is that lowering post orgasmic symptoms involves higher levels of sexual arousement (more dopamine). Which is the totaly opposite of what is usually said, by the medical society, about post orgasmic pain.

You can easily do this test by first masturbating to a picture of an old ugly woman. And then after some time again masturbating to a picture of a beautifull young girl.

In my experience the beautifull young girl causes significantly less pain.

[imre1]

Also notice that Waldinger works in a department that treats men with problems involving erectile disfunction.

This alone may be the reason it is stated that he does not know wether post orgasmic symptoms also appear in women.

[imre1]

When I have great, bedbreaking, screaming and thrashing sex with my wife and my heart rate goes like I'm running a marathon and it takes a while to get my breath back and my orgasm was so strong I thought my head would fall off, I always suffer a lot less with POIS. I do get a drop in energy and my stomach goes a little funny and all the things I've described, but it's always a lot lot worse if I'm sitting quietly at home and have a quick **** that probably does not even raise my heart rate at all. After that I often feel like I've had all my energy drained away and I often go and lie down and sleep.

I just noticed this was mentioned before.

It is pretty much what I have just been saying also. Higher levels of sexual arousement cause less symptoms. There may be something wrong with dopamine relase then. Maybe causing too high levels of prolactin. Which brings us back to the beginning. Starving yourself of prolactin in dairy products might have a very benificial result.

But then it is also possible that orgasm comes too quickly. And that you realy should be warmed up first.

[imre1]

If you think this last part is contrary to what I called Sexual Relaxation Retraining Therapy consider the fact that it is important in this technique to get high levels of arousement prior to each stop. Because this ensures high releases of pre-cum.

[imre1]

Maybe leading to the believe that the problem is realy related to what you could call "cold orgasms". Orgasming in a body that is not readily warmed up.

I.e. a condition very similar to muscle ache caused by not doing stretch excercises.

[imre1]

Also if POIS was a auto-imune desease you would be able to determine that with a PET-scan (or have I been watching too much House).

[demografx]

"Waldinger has seen five Dutch men in as many years in his practice
complaining of flu-like symptoms including a sore throat, sweating, extreme
fatigue and eye irritation after sex."

This makes me believe that there realy is no such thing as POIS. The symptoms are too similar to post coïtal headache/migraine. (Which by the way nobody knows what causes it.)

imre1 - - do your symptoms last 3-5 days after sex? THAT (to me) plus extreme fatigue/exhaustion is the definition of POIS, of which there are many varieties on this Forum. But, again,  3 to 5 days of extreme exhaustion and perhaps some form of derealization, I think is the common thread here.

POIS differs from "post orgasmic fatigue" -- which lasts hours - not days, like POIS does.

Dr. Waldinger, as B_Jim pointed out, studied a very small sample. I think what Waldinger contributed most to all of us was DAYS (not hours) of symptoms, and flulike symptoms...which include fatigue/exhaustion.

I contend that anyone who comes to this Forum has POIS, because - although they may see differences in symptoms, the SIMILARITIES are more important.

So....we are all here, still in the process of defining POIS!

[imre1]

No, mine is more of a very excruciating pain lasting days.

That said I do think that there are a number of nasty things people can get from orgasm, none of them fun.

Still, by studying the problem at a personal level you can identify what causes more/less symptoms.

I just wanted to state that orgasmic problems realy are caused by orgasm and that there are ways of being in control of your orgasms.

Further more by exchanging information ir is possible to find out what is likely to work for other people.

And the red line that seems to run through this is that higher levels of arousal cause less symptoms. Maybe it's the body's way of saying that sex realy is meant to be done with partners whom we are in love with.

[imre1]

After looking somewhat further I have found that Chronic Fatigue Syndrome has many of the symptoms of post orgasmic symptoms.

CDC 1994 criteria (aka "Fukuda"):

The fatigue must be accompanied by a minimum of 4 of the following eight symptoms:

1 Impairment of short-term memory and concentration
2 Sore throat
3 Tender lymph nodes
4 Muscle pain
5 Multi-joint pain
6 Headaches of a new type, pattern, or severity
7 Unrefreshing sleep or insomnia
8 Post-exertional malaise or fatigue lasting more than 24 hours after exertion.

NICE (UK) 2007 criteria

* fatigue that is new, persistent and/or recurrent, not explained by other conditions and has has resulted in a substantial reduction in activity level characterised by post-exertional malaise and/or fatigue (typically delayed, for example by at least 24 hours, with slow recovery over several days) and
* one or more of the following list of symptoms: difficulty with sleeping, muscle and/or joint pain at multiple sites without evidence of inflammation, headaches, painful lymph nodes that are not pathologically enlarged, sore throat, cognitive dysfunction, worsening of symptoms by physical or mental exertion, general malaise, dizziness and/or nausea and palpitations with no identifiable heart problem.


Maybe post orgasmic symptoms are a manifestation, or a special form, of CFS?

[demografx]

My psychiatrist thought my POIS sounded like CFS, I disagreed don't remember why) but with imre1's post (thank you) it does seem a possibility.

[antman]

Hi I have suffered in relative silence with some of the symptons you have all been discussing for over 20 years, I have other symptons not yet mentioned, and others which are not as bad as some of you are suffering from, this is the first time on this forum, and  feel I definately suffer with some form of POIS,fatigue lasting upto 2 days rarely more, like I have been tranquilised especially pronounced mid afternoon, shakes very first thing in morning, unable to wake up etc, depressive bouts,and paranoia, I went to the doctor last year,she was very patient with me but gave me no answers and said she Knew of no one else with prolonged symptoms but that it was normal to feel fatigue. I'm mid thirties white northern european, Im interested  to know if this is a genetic trate or induced from other things, I always felt it was hormonaly induced, but wonder if it is a mineral defficiency, one of my symptoms is clicking hips, which I also get after giving blood. My symptoms are not as bad as they used to be, but my sexual appetite, is not so great. I'll stay posted . ant.

[antman]

Hi B Jim, thanks for your response,I have never taken any form of antidepressant, or any medication for my problems, even  trips to the doctor are very rare, my use of the word paranoia is perhaps a little casual, but I developed very irrational fears during adolescence, the doctors at the time putting this down to anxiety, I had shingles when I was 2l culminating eventually into what can only be described as a nervous breakdown. I don't want to lose the thread of why I'm here, but I find that POIS seems to amplify any negative doubts or fears (never positive thoughts)so I have to be careful if I'm in stressful periods, much of my stress is usually irrational,leading to the depression.  I don't think POIS is responsible for it, but it drains my energy, takes away my fight. I don't see my self as ill anymore,although I don't think I can handle stress as well as a "normal" person. I think I have suffered POIS ever since I was 13, although I didn't attribute it to sexual activity at the time, so POIS came before the depression caused by other factors. I think!

[demografx]

Hi antman, welcome to the POIS Forum. Great to have your input, sharing your experience.

[antman]

High demografx I shall try to answer the questionaire over the weekend, Ive just composed a little essay based on the questionaire but when I posted it I'd timed out and everything was lost, so I'll start again over the weekend, I've had other symptoms beyond the questionaire, some of which I've grown out of so I'll compile what I can, maybe we can start correlating the info into a more structured form best wishes to all. antman

[Gonzo]

Gentlemen,

This is the most awkward yet the most relieving of messages I have ever written. I suffer from many of the same symptoms with the exception to the muscle pains.

I wanted to write and encourage the members dedicated to this post as I know there are only a few who are experiencing this and searching for answers. I will be writing a more thorough survey about my case in particular with details and will be posting it soon.

Thank you for your hard work gentlemen. I have high hopes that we can come to conclusive information so that we can experience some sort of normalcy in spite of our condition. Carry on!

Gonzo