[demografx]

Hi people, I went along to my university health coordinator and she was very sympathetic and supportive with our cause =) She said she is going to contact some neurologists in oxford/at oxford (cant remember which:P) she had a special name for the institute, but i cant remember. She said hopefully because it is coming from her they will have the courtesy to reply shedding what knowledge they have. Also she suggested that I try and find a neurologist, because she definately thinks its something physiological rathern than psychological, and run tests to see what actual changes are in the brain. This would mean masturbating for the process of the test. Has anybody done anything like this before? Im will to give it a go i think, but admittadly we were both in agreement that finding a neurologist will be difficult, but she said it can and should be done. She wondered if it might be a form of epilepsy?

Rapidgaming, thank you for this. You opened another door!

[demografx]

An old school buddy was one of the first scientists(1980) to study HIV-1 protease (for AIDS). I sent him an email, hoping to get his thoughts on how our forum can be aided by the scientific community.

[demografx]

Thanks, Chewbacca, for continuing to help unravel the mystery of fenugreek!

[Finally]

I started taking Fenugreek(Nature's Answer)1200-1800mg daily.
Maca root extract(750mg daily)
Horney Goat Weed(1200 mg daily) 
yohimbe
60 mg DHEA
In addition to previously taking:
Restore(garden of Life) enzyme blend(bromeline Protease and Papain) 6 capsules /day
1200 mg  phenylanine
exotic and berry fruit juice blends.

Began on Saturday.  Noticed immediate results.  Neck and upper back muscles began to loosen in 3 days as much as it would take months with prescription strength drugs. Also had so little fatigue that I ended up on the internet through early morning hours.  Usually I doze off hours earlier.
Not sure of what combination causing it or all together. I may have to work backwards to find out.
I haven't tried the ultimate "test' yet. I am trying to feel as healthy as possible first.
I haven't experienced any side effects(THAT IS ME). 
Also , despite the large amont of aphrodisiacs There has not been any change in libido but I haven't been looking for any stimulus either. 
I have been diagnosed with CFS or Fibromyalgia in the past.

[demografx]

...I have been diagnosed with CFS or Fibromyalgia in the past.

I guess I was wrong when I didn't think that there was any link between CFS and POIS. Several people here have been diagnosed with CFS!

[demografx]

B_Jim, it is good that the flu-like symptoms are gone!

Is 30 hours the average time for POIS to end?

[CertainlyPOIS]

And if you are taking dhea, i will advise you slow it down because it will definately cause testcles shrinkage, I have had to stop taking it because of that.   and i only took about 25-50mg a week.

[demografx]

No it was just to clarify the time when i was writing. Now the Pois has been reduces to less than 24 hours. It's a real improvement.  I have stopped fenugreek seed. I will maybe retry with fenugreek supplement later.

B_Jim, is most of your POIS-time reduction improvement from protein and cutting out sugar and carbs?

[demografx]

Girlwind, thanks for the ZRT info again. Too much data flying around here, though, I can't recall what thyroid tests I should ask my GP to request from ZRT. Can you please say again? Many thanks.

My GP is an HMO, should I be prepared for resistance? If the GP has a lab that does thyroid testing should I just go with that?

[demografx]

...I was also wondering is Relora still supported as help in reducting symptoms and has any body else tried it. 
I bought some and i will be posting it effects on me.

Please note the post about interaction effects with Relora Post#202205
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg202205

for other Relora posts:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=relora+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenakedscientists.com%2F

I look forward to seeing your future post!

[imre1]

How do you explain your condition to your family and co-workers? For me it would be just too big an embarassment to tell them the truth ...

When I finaly told my parents it felled a lot like being gay. I especially remember thinking that this is what it must be like to be gay.

In the end we just sit around the table and i told them. They were very surprised but they did take it well. These days i don't hide it from anyone anymore.

I think you could find a lot of emotional help if you treat it like what gays call "coming out". There are a lot of stories about how people handle that.

[girlwind]

Girlwind, thanks for the ZRT info again. Too much data flying around here, though, I can't recall what thyroid tests I should ask my GP to request from ZRT. Can you please say again? Many thanks.

My GP is an HMO, should I be prepared for resistance? If the GP has a lab that does thyroid testing should I just go with that?

If I were you, I would NOT go through a GP. I would use an alternative health care practitioner like a chiropractor or
acupuncturist. Most doctors are TOTALLY CLUELESS about thyroid tests. (I don't have time to go into the details of this
yet again, so you can refer to past postings or read this article by Mercola.) http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/mercola.htm

Through ZRT, I did the entire Comprehensive Female Profile I. (Equivalent is the Comprehensive Male Profile I.)
"Assesses gonadal, adrenal, and thyroid hormones. Includes saliva: E2, T, DS, Diurnal 4x Cortisol; and blood spot:
PSA, TSH, fT3, fT4, TPO."  (As you can see, this is NOT just thyroid. and includes other hormones too.)

If you want JUST THYROID, you should do Free T3, Free T4, TSH and TPO. BY EXACTLY  THOSE NAMES. There
are other more commonly used thyroid tests that are virtually USELESS. If your GP resists, then order the tests yourself
through My Med Lab.com  https://www.mymedlab.com/

[demografx]

Girlwind, thank you, VERY helpful! Sorry I made you repeat things, I have *CRS.



*Can't Remember Sh**

[martin88]

According to this article, maybe you should also take an adrenal test with a thyroid test.
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/endocrinology/a/adrenalfatigue_2.htm

It's incredible how the symptoms mentionned in this page are identical to pois.

Also in the second page of the article they have interesting suggestions, including the following :
-low-dose hydrocortisone
-avoid stimulants
-low sugar diet
-siberian ginseng
-astragalus
-fo-ti root
-triphala
-black cohosh
-chamomile
-lemon balm (melissa) (also it has an antiviral effect)


Since a few days of pois I'm taking lemon balm. Perhaps my error was to take this in the morning the first day and I started to sleep in the afternoon. Then I couldn't sleep at night.
Also my appetite was increased with this herb, I find this positive because it's a sign that digestion is improved . Melissa promotes assimilation of nutrients.
If taken only before going to bed, my sleep is 40% more refreshing and I was able to do more things than usual during the day.
Note that I'm far to be cured but I'll continue with this herb. Only one problem, I hope I'll be able to sleep without it when I'll stop.

[John21 (OP)]

Chewbacca,

So I've recently stopped taking fenugreek until I can determine how it effects estrogen and breast tissue development. I haven't grown tits just yet:) but I was reading about a guy who had an increase in breast size from taking fenugreek for fifteen weeks straight. This is a lot of fenugreek, and probably more than any of us would take, but I still want to know more about fenugreek before I continue taking more of it. I'm not worried of toxicity as it is a safe herb to take...just unwanted side effects.

Do you have a link to the report on male breast size enlargement due to fenugreek? To me even the claims of enhancing female breast size with it sound like a sales gimmick to sell supplements. I understand it has a definite effect on lactating women but it strikes me as doubtful that it increases breast size in non-lactating women, and even more so for men. After all, it is a common ingredient in Indian recipes. I would think that if it actually worked it would be very well known and used by small breasted women everywhere, and silicon breast implants wouldn't have as much allure.

[girlwind]

According to this article, maybe you should also take an adrenal test with a thyroid test.
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/endocrinology/a/adrenalfatigue_2.htm

It's incredible how the symptoms mentionned in this page are identical to pois.

Also in the second page of the article they have interesting suggestions, including the following :
-low-dose hydrocortisone
-avoid stimulants
-low sugar diet
-siberian ginseng
-astragalus
-fo-ti root
-triphala
-black cohosh
-chamomile
-lemon balm (melissa) (also it has an antiviral effect)

Yes! Cortisol levels and thyroid are very much inter-connected. (That's why I think it's a good idea to do the
entire Comprehensive Male (or Female) Profile I, if you are testing through ZRT.) When your adrenals burn out, the
thyroid has to pick up the slack. And when the thyroid becomes exhausted, then it's a double whammy of a crash.

That's a very good article with great natural remedies for the glands, including adaptogenic herbs. I would also add
schizandra and ashwaganda to the list. Ashwaganda is adaptogenic for the adrenals, and in addition
it helps the body with conversion of the T4 to T3 thyroid hormones. (I am taking it right now for just that reason.)

Black cohosh is primarily used for women who are going through menopause and need to balance their estrogen/
progesterone hormone levels, so I'm not sure why it made the list....?

[girlwind]

Girlwind, thank you, VERY helpful! Sorry I made you repeat things, I have *CRS.

*Can't Remember Sh**

Demografx: PLEASE READ MY POST TO MARTIN (above) re: cortisol and adrenals.

[demografx]

Demografx: PLEASE READ MY POST TO MARTIN (above) re: cortisol and adrenals.

Yes, girlwind, I was just about to point out to martin that adrenal testing - which he recommends - is part of the Comprehensives.

Can most chiropractics/accupuncturists help interpret the results? (What's low? what's high?)

Girlwind, I think you agreed before that it might be good to do testing "in-POIS" and "out-of-POIS". Boy, this is getting complicated (and costly?)

[girlwind]

Yes, girlwind, I was just about to point out to martin that adrenal testing - which he recommends - is part of the Comprehensives.

Can most chiropractics/accupuncturists help interpret the results? (What's low? what's high?)

Girlwind, I think you agreed before that it might be good to do testing "in-POIS" and "out-of-POIS". Boy, this is getting complicated (and costly?)

I think doing both would be ideal, but getting a baseline on a not-POIS day should be revealing in
and of itself. I was lucky to have a good interpreter of the test--a local naturopath who works at the
local health food store has used this lab for her patients for many years.

But for the most part anybody can see what is IN and OUT of range. To get a fine-tuning on the
results would require a little more research. I have had help with that from others with CFS. Some-
timees patients know more than doctors about these kind of things.

[demografx]

...getting a baseline on a not-POIS day should be revealing in and of itself...

Great, that makes it easier to start out.

...I was lucky to have a good interpreter of the test--a local naturopath who works at the local health food store has used this lab for her patients for many years...

Question: who <gulp!> draws the blood?

...But for the most part anybody can see what is IN and OUT of range...

Reassurance that we don't need to have a Ph.D to understand this!

...Some-times patients know more than doctors about these kind of things...

Sad but true.