[tarkington]

Just to clarify:  I take no other medicines.  Only once a day vitamins (Centrum).  I am only 20.  I have normal Blood Pressure.  I am physically active(exercise at least once a day).  I don't have any other problems (like diabetes, liver problems, kidney problems, etc.).  I do have allergic reactions to wasp stings and seasonal allergies. I don't have any sexual problems besides POIS.

An interesting THEORY that I have been thinking about.  After taking Relora at least three times I can have an orgasm within a certain time frame (I don't know what is the cutoff time) without side effects.  If I do have side effects they are very minor (10% of normal symptoms).  But the most interesting thing is that I don't have to continue to take Relora for the POIS side effects to stay away.  In order to have another orgasm, yes, I need to take at least one day of Relora. 

So it seems that the Magnolia officinalis and Phellodendron amurense in Relora prevent (in my body at least and perhaps to some extent in Limejuice's body as well) something from happening that used to happen after orgasm.  AND ONCE that "thing" is prevented then all the symptoms disappear or are reduced drastically.   

[Limejuice]

tarkington:

What you say is true with me too.  Yesterday I had the opportunity to conduct another test (as put elliquently by demografx, in the name of science).  All day before release I digested a full dose of Relora (the previous day I had none).  Today I feel only minimal POIS symptoms - the worst symptoms are gone, which for me are brain fog and communication issues.  However, some symptoms still remain such as the ability to relate to someone emotionally or the feeling of extreme excitement.  Now the remaining symptoms could be a side effect of the Relora (the Relora has a large impact on my personality - I feel extremely relaxed and mildly tired) but I'll willing to bet it's distorted POIS symptoms.

More experiements and time will tell.

[girlwind]

Just to clarify:  I take no other medicines.  Only once a day vitamins (Centrum).  I am only 20.  I have normal Blood Pressure.  I am physically active(exercise at least once a day).  I don't have any other problems (like diabetes, liver problems, kidney problems, etc.).  I do have allergic reactions to wasp stings and seasonal allergies. I don't have any sexual problems besides POIS.

An interesting THEORY that I have been thinking about.  After taking Relora at least three times I can have an orgasm within a certain time frame (I don't know what is the cutoff time) without side effects.  If I do have side effects they are very minor (10% of normal symptoms).  But the most interesting thing is that I don't have to continue to take Relora for the POIS side effects to stay away.  In order to have another orgasm, yes, I need to take at least one day of Relora. 

So it seems that the Magnolia officinalis and Phellodendron amurense in Relora prevent (in my body at least and perhaps to some extent in Limejuice's body as well) something from happening that used to happen after orgasm.  AND ONCE that "thing" is prevented then all the symptoms disappear or are reduced drastically.   

The "something" that Relora prevents from happening with you most likely has to do with preventing
an aggravated cortisol spike after orgasm, because that is what Relora is supposed to do--lower
cortisol.

This to me is more evidence of the endocrine issue with POIS. The fact that oxytocin has a relationship
to the HPA axis (Hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal) of endocrine events, points back to this as well.

[demografx]

I'm afraid I have to report a major setback with Fenugreek  [:-[]. I was okay twice while I've been taking it, with only a few minor problems (as I said in my last post). But the third time around POIS came back in full swing, and work has been hell today. This is disheartening to say the least. I will use up the bottle of Fenugreek pills that I bought and see if this was an exceptional experience, but right now I'm a little skeptical about its effects.

longwalkhome, I really appreciate very much your candor and willingness to post! But don't feel bad, I think everyone goes through this. I know I have many times. I was convinced testosterone cured my POIS, then it stopped working.

And then my last time, Levitra didn't work as well as it has for over one year of solid results! But the "setback" made me think, as B_Jim suggests, to look for other factors. I avoided release so long this time (2-3 months, I lost track) that I'm sure I set up significantly different bodily conditions for myself to react to "the cure".

So keep the faith! Keep experimenting! And you're doing a great service reporting this, so that others can watch things more closely! I'm so glad I didn't give up - and did I ever want to! - for the 30+ years I've had this.

How do you explain your condition to your family and co-workers? For me it would be just too big an embarrassment to tell them the truth ...

I just discussed my own problem about this with my therapist this morning. She said (1) there should be no embarrassment. We didn't ask for this! It's simply a biological problem and if anyone has a problem, they're unbelievably unenlightened and it's THEIR problem, not ours. (2) put into perspective the fact that people really have SERIOUS embarrassments, to which POIS just can't even come close to comparing, for example, think of the embarrassment of a politician who is caught cheating on his wife, destroys his family and severely disappoints millions of constituents. Does having POIS - an unwanted malady! - even come close?

I like that comparison. Let's keep it in mind!

[demografx]

tarkington:

What you say is true with me too.  Yesterday I had the opportunity to conduct another test (as put elliquently by demografx, in the name of science).  All day before release I digested a full dose of Relora (the previous day I had none).  Today I feel only minimal POIS symptoms - the worst symptoms are gone, which for me are brain fog and communication issues.  However, some symptoms still remain such as the ability to relate to someone emotionally or the feeling of extreme excitement.  Now the remaining symptoms could be a side effect of the Relora (the Relora has a large impact on my personality - I feel extremely relaxed and mildly tired) but I'll willing to bet it's distorted POIS symptoms.

More experiements and time will tell.

Great going, Limejuice!

[girlwind]

I just discussed my own problem about this with my therapist this morning. She said (1) there should be no embarrassment. We didn't ask for this! It's simply a biological problem and if anyone has a problem, they're unbelievably unenleightened and it's THEIR problem, not ours. (2) put into perspective the fact that people really have SERIOUS embarrassments, to which POIS just can't even come close to comparing, for example, think of the embarrassment of a politician who is caught cheating on his wife, destroys his family and severely dissapoints millions of constituents. Does having POIS - an unwanted malady! - even come close?

I like that comparison. Let's keep it in mind!

Having CFS and POIS for 30 years, I am very selective about who I tell what to. If I feel that someone
is an unempathetic type, I have no qualms about withholding the truth or making up an interesting
sounding version of it. I've told many such types that I have a long term auto-immune condition or
a Natural Killer cell maladaptation problem. That usually shuts them up.

On the other hand, if someone feels empathetic, then I'll be willing to be more forthcoming with the
real truth, and they will have the priviledge of knowing it.  (Priviledge is the key word for me on this.)
No one deserves an explanation about anything as personal as your health, unless they feel deserving
of it.

[demografx]

...I also read med publications that link homocysteine with Nitric Oxide. When NO is high homocysteine is low and vice versa. Not sure if it has implications for POIS but just thought I'd mention it in case anyone else has had theirs [homocysteine] measured...

Very interesting. Since NO seems worth exploring (Levitra works for my and another Forum member's POIS and it increases NO), I wonder if testing homocysteine "in-POIS" and "out-of-POIS" might tell us something?

[demografx]

I just discussed my own problem about this with my therapist this morning. She said (1) there should be no embarrassment. We didn't ask for this! It's simply a biological problem and if anyone has a problem, they're unbelievably unenleightened and it's THEIR problem, not ours. (2) put into perspective the fact that people really have SERIOUS embarrassments, to which POIS just can't even come close to comparing, for example, think of the embarrassment of a politician who is caught cheating on his wife, destroys his family and severely dissapoints millions of constituents. Does having POIS - an unwanted malady! - even come close?

I like that comparison. Let's keep it in mind!

Having CFS and POIS for 30 years, I am very selective about who I tell what to. If I feel that someone
is an unempathetic type, I have no qualms about withholding the truth or making up an interesting
sounding version of it. I've told many such types that I have a long term auto-immune condition or
an Natural Killer cell maladaptation problem. That usually shuts them up.

On the other hand, if someone feels empathetic, then I'll be willing to be more forthcoming with the
real truth, and they will have the priviledge of knowing it.  (Priviledge is the key word for me on this.)
No one deserves an explanation about anything as personal as your health, unless they feel deserving
of it.

You're right, girlwind, there is a risk in disclosing to certain people. The one I discussed above was an old friend and we just renewed our acquaintance.

[Limejuice]

Just to clarify:  I take no other medicines.  Only once a day vitamins (Centrum).  I am only 20.  I have normal Blood Pressure.  I am physically active(exercise at least once a day).  I don't have any other problems (like diabetes, liver problems, kidney problems, etc.).  I do have allergic reactions to wasp stings and seasonal allergies. I don't have any sexual problems besides POIS.

An interesting THEORY that I have been thinking about.  After taking Relora at least three times I can have an orgasm within a certain time frame (I don't know what is the cutoff time) without side effects.  If I do have side effects they are very minor (10% of normal symptoms).  But the most interesting thing is that I don't have to continue to take Relora for the POIS side effects to stay away.  In order to have another orgasm, yes, I need to take at least one day of Relora. 

So it seems that the Magnolia officinalis and Phellodendron amurense in Relora prevent (in my body at least and perhaps to some extent in Limejuice's body as well) something from happening that used to happen after orgasm.  AND ONCE that "thing" is prevented then all the symptoms disappear or are reduced drastically.   

The "something" that Relora prevents from happening with you most likely has to do with preventing
an aggravated cortisol spike after orgasm, because that is what Relora is supposed to do--lower
cortisol.

This to me is more evidence of the endocrine issue with POIS. The fact that oxytocin has a relationship
to the HPA axis (Hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal) of endocrine events, points back to this as well.

After brief research, I've concluded the same points - that POIS most certainly impacts the function of the Hypothalamus-pituitary chain.  I haven't disclosed this but exercise significantly reduces the recovery period from POIS symptoms after release.  According to several reputable medical sites (webmd and others) evidence shows that exercise enhances healthy function of the endocrine, specifically promoting a liberal hypothalamus to balance off centered hormones (such as exercise reduces stress, increases insulin, and stabilizes the conversion of T4 to T3).  In case my logic isn't clear above, exercise reduces POIS symptoms and promotes a healthy endocrine system, and the POIS symptoms are identical to those of an unbalanced endocrine.  So as girlwind indicated, POIS may be affecting the endocrine system.  However, targeting the root cause within the endocrine is misleading.  Each individual endocrine function such as they thyroid, gonads ect, appears to be affected by POIS according to the respective symptoms, which draws the conclusion that the main endocrine controls or hypothalamus/pituitary is the culprit. Anyways, that's my theray.

This theray supports the relora evidence that only some symptoms are diminished and that other suppliments and PX are temporary solutions because they only treat part of the problem.

This information is most likely disclosed within the 76 pages of TNS discussions but incase it isn't, voila.

[rock27]

Wow, this cortisol peak does make sense. I am taking herbs to increase kidney yang (TCM; corresponds somehow with cortisol I was told), but in the 2 days following orgasm I don't need them physically, and then for a few days days after that I need much of it, my body just keeps asking. It's just like at first cortisol is in overdrive and then depleted.

Anyway I am preparing full conclusive blood tests, so I'll post them when it's done. I am trying to get before the event,  5 minutes after the event (AE), and 2 more sometime AE.

[demografx]

You're right, girlwind, there is a risk in disclosing to certain people. The one I discussed above was an old friend and we renewed our acquaintance recently.

Longwalkhome and Girlwind, in my posts about disclosing POIS, I wasn't really thinking clearly beyond my situation this morning with my friend. Because it was and is still very fresh in my mind. So thanks for a better answer to Longwalkhome by broadening the discussion, Girlwind.
 

[demografx]

Wow, this cortisol peak does make sense. I am taking herbs to increase kidney yang (TCM; corresponds somehow with cortisol I was told), but in the 2 days following orgasm I don't need them physically, and then for a few days days after that I need much of it, my body just keeps asking. It's just like at first cortisol is in overdrive and then depleted.

Anyway I am preparing full conclusive blood tests, so I'll post them when it's done. I am trying to get before the event,  5 minutes after the event (AE), and 2 more sometime AE.

Wow, Rock, 3 tests. Sounds great. Looking forward to seeing those results!

[Limejuice]

I've created a quick survey geared towards the pituitary hormones that will very roughly measure hormone levels.  Maybe if all our results are the same we can conclude a certain trend of hormone production or reduction that occurs during POIS.  Refer to POIS symptoms where applicable.  I'll complete the test.  If you feel comfortable enough feel free to answer the questions.

General Pituitary Test:

GH (Growth hormone) - height/size: Is your height above or below average? Below, 5'7

Prolactin - Libido: Do you have a high or low sex drive during heavy POIS symptoms? Low

ACTH (Adrenocorticotropin) - Stress: Is your level of stress high or low during intense POIS? High

TSH (Thyroid-stimulating hormone) - energy: Is your energy level high or low during POIS? Your weight? Low and low, 130lbs

LH (Luteinizing hormone) - If your female, is your period cycle regular? (Males are difficult to measure)

ADH (Antidiuretic hormone) - carbs: do carbohydrates or alcohol impact your thought process during POIS? Yes

FSH (Follicle-stimulating hormone) - Kids: Do you have kids (if you were trying): NA, wasn't trying

How long does your POIS symptoms last after release? 5 days

Like I said, some of the answers are black/white and difficult to measure.  If you have suggestions to better measure certain hormones, let me know.  Thank you in advance.

Reference: http://www.hormone.org/pituitary_gland.cfm

[tarkington]

General Pituitary Test:

GH (Growth hormone) - height/size: Is your height above or below average? 5'10

Prolactin - Libido: Do you have a high or low sex drive during heavy POIS symptoms? Low

ACTH (Adrenocorticotropin) - Stress: Is your level of stress high or low during intense POIS? High

TSH (Thyroid-stimulating hormone) - energy: Is your energy level high or low during POIS? Your weight? Low and 150lbs

LH (Luteinizing hormone) - If your female, is your period cycle regular? (Males are difficult to measure)

ADH (Antidiuretic hormone) - carbs: do carbohydrates or alcohol impact your thought process during POIS? NA

FSH (Follicle-stimulating hormone) - Kids: Do you have kids (if you were trying): NA

How long does your POIS symptoms last after release? 3 days

[Finally]

General Pituitary Test:

GH (Growth hormone) - height/size: Is your height above or below average? 5'11

Prolactin - Libido: Do you have a high or low sex drive during heavy POIS symptoms? Low at first but high around the 2nd day.

ACTH (Adrenocorticotropin) - Stress: Is your level of stress high or low during intense POIS? High

TSH (Thyroid-stimulating hormone) - energy: Is your energy level high or low during POIS? Low Your weight? Low and low, 260lbs

LH (Luteinizing hormone) - If your female, is your period cycle regular? (Males are difficult to measure)NA Male

ADH (Antidiuretic hormone) - carbs: do carbohydrates or alcohol impact your thought process during POIS? No on Carbs. Don't drink

FSH (Follicle-stimulating hormone) - Kids: Do you have kids (if you were trying): NA, wasn't trying

How long does your POIS symptoms last after release? Initial symptons 2days -week
Secondary( muscle stiffness)ongoing[/quote]

[demografx]

General Pituitary Test:

GH (Growth hormone) - height/size: Is your height above or below average? Below, 5'7"

Prolactin - Libido: Do you have a high or low sex drive during heavy POIS symptoms? zero

ACTH (Adrenocorticotropin) - Stress: Is your level of stress high or low during intense POIS? High

TSH (Thyroid-stimulating hormone) - energy: Is your energy level high or low during POIS? Your weight? Low , 175lbs

LH (Luteinizing hormone) - If your female, is your period cycle regular? (Males are difficult to measure)

ADH (Antidiuretic hormone) - carbs: do carbohydrates or alcohol impact your thought process during POIS? No

FSH (Follicle-stimulating hormone) - Kids: Do you have kids (if you were trying): yes

How long does your POIS symptoms last after release? 4 days

[girlwind]

General Pituitary Test:

GH (Growth hormone) - height/size: Is your height above or below average? A little above, 5'7"

Prolactin - Libido: Do you have a high or low sex drive during heavy POIS symptoms? low

ACTH (Adrenocorticotropin) - Stress: Is your level of stress high or low during intense POIS?  high

TSH (Thyroid-stimulating hormone) - energy: Is your energy level high or low during POIS? Your weight? low, 122 lbs

LH (Luteinizing hormone) - If your female, is your period cycle regular? becoming more irregular

ADH (Antidiuretic hormone) - carbs: do carbohydrates or alcohol impact your thought process during POIS? avoid most carbs

FSH (Follicle-stimulating hormone) - Kids: Do you have kids (if you were trying): no, chose not to

How long does your POIS symptoms last after release? 1-2 days, has been better lately

[demografx]

[msl]

Hi people, I went along to my university health coordinator and she was very sympathetic and supportive with our cause =) She said she is going to contact some neurologists in oxford/at oxford (cant remember which:P) she had a special name for the institute, but i cant remember. She said hopefully because it is coming from her they will have the courtesy to reply shedding what knowledge they have. Also she suggested that I try and find a neurologist, because she definately thinks its something physiological rathern than psychological, and run tests to see what actual changes are in the brain. This would mean masturbating for the process of the test. Has anybody done anything like this before? Im will to give it a go i think, but admittadly we were both in agreement that finding a neurologist will be difficult, but she said it can and should be done. She wondered if it might be a form of epilepsy?

[Chewbacca]

So I've recently stopped taking fenugreek until I can determine how it effects estrogen and breast tissue development. I haven't grown tits just yet:) but I was reading about a guy who had an increase in breast size from taking fenugreek for fifteen weeks straight. This is a lot of fenugreek, and probably more than any of us would take, but I still want to know more about fenugreek before I continue taking more of it. I'm not worried of toxicity as it is a safe herb to take...just unwanted side effects.

Though...let me be clear.... I think it is an awesome product and does have huge potential for POIS. I tried a few different kinds such as solar ray and solgar. Solgar is by far superior. I believe the success some people have had and the lack there of for others is a result of varying potency caused by differences in the kind of brand people use. I noticed that it inceased my ability to relate to people, lessend social anxiety, and generally had a positive effect. I didn't get to try it out on my POIS just yet be causes I'm still recovering from the last bout.

I think the best way to apply fenugreek and minimize any unwanted developments(if indeed it is a concern) is to take it as needed for your POIS. Day of, and day after.

I want to (and I would invite others) to investigate 1) Cases studies of men taking fenugreek 2) Estrogenic effects of fenugreek 3)How oxytocin effects estrogen and breast development 4) Other herbal oxytocin synergists that alleviate POIS symptoms and don't develop breast tissue! What good does it do you to have your POIS cured if you grow boobs? Female members and viewers excluded of course.