[LAPOISSE2]

Hi Urano,

I thought it was better to take amino acid the morning in an empty stomach. What kind of doc do you see ? I'm trying to find one who knows this kind of things. All the docs I consult didn't have a clue about all these works.The medecine here in France is based in what comercial labs provides ; There are kinda sponsored by GSK and co.I can't imagine being prescribed with Tyrosine or Mucuna

is somebody ever had its catecholamines tested ? Is it reliable ? Does it provide information about the bioavailable neurotransmitters in the brain ? I'm right getting a urine sample ready for the lab and I'll have  serum catecho tomorrow morning.I'll keep you informed.

[urano75]

Hi Urano,

I thought it was better to take amino acid the morning in an empty stomach. What kind of doc do you see ? I'm trying to find one who knows this kind of things. All the docs I consult didn't have a clue about all these works.The medecine here in France is based in what comercial labs provides ; There are kinda sponsored by GSK and co.I can't imagine being prescribed with Tyrosine or Mucuna

is somebody ever had its catecholamines tested ? Is it reliable ? Does it provide information about the bioavailable neurotransmitters in the brain ? I'm right getting a urine sample ready for the lab and I'll have  serum catecho tomorrow morning.I'll keep you informed.

Aminoacids are always best absorbed if taken on empty stomach, not necessarily in the morning (it depends).
One of my reference doctors is based in US, and we work remotely with him. The hardest bit is to find the right supplements without ordering them from US. If order them from US they are systematically blocked at Italian customs (that's exactly what's happening now with mucuna). I bet you have the same problem in France. I order most of things from UK for this reason.

[LAPOISSE2]

I just mailled the conductor of this research :

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleID=177775

I'm not expecting a miracle but who knows....

Below my mail :


Dear Doctor,

I've been experiencing for about 8 years strange symtoms and I would like to have your opinion.

I'm a French guy, 29 years old, perfectly healty. Right after an orgasms and for 3 to 7 days, i fell an intense fatigue, and very disturbing cognitives symtoms such as less fluency of speech, difficulty to find the right word, poor concentration,general brain fog, loss of motivation, need to sleep and anxiety.The symtoms are triggered by orgasm but also probably by stress and food.
When I go back to normal, I'm perfectly functioning persons. I explored many ways such as endocrine, psycho and all my blood test are well except prolactin serum wich is a bit over the range everytime I test it.
This condition is know as Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS) and was established by a Dutch professor, Mr Waldinger ; There is hundreds of persons that are complaining about the same syndrome.

I'm addressing to you today, because I read a paper about a research you conducted wich is I think very interesting :

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleID=177775

It's interesting because what I feel is exactly what you describe as dopamine depletion except its not a experience and has been my life for years an about 2/7 days a week.

I'd like to know your opinion and if there is any possibility for you to help me/us (even with simple advices).

Thank you for your consideration,

[LAPOISSE2]

I just checked on the other forum about Dopamine deficiency and obviously, it has been already some investigation without interesting results ; Sometimes POIS is very despairing...

Do we have here succes stories ? I guess people who are "cured" or enough to live normaly without the obsessive need to solve the problem do not come here to relate that they enjoy life...

[Nightingale]

I have to add my very strongly explored failure with dopamine support/agonism.  I have had multiple issues with dopamine precursors making me worse.  I typically become nervous and agitated with minimal dosage.  I have to take a dopamine receptor blocker, or else I become edgy and ultimately psychotic.

I have also had the opportunity to try some dopamine agonists off-label, notably Mirapex, a drug to treat Parkinson's.  It made my brain fog worse, and didn't reduce POIS symptoms post orgasm.  I also went on Wellbutrin, but could barely stand it for the nervousness and agitation it produced.

I have some serious mental health challenges that I'm quite sure contribute to my difference of response.  I have multiple gene mutations that prevent the proper breakdown of dopamine, which may prevent me from taking any pro-dopamine drugs or supplements until I can (somehow) get my health back.

But I would be skeptical of dopamine being the panacea for POIS.  We should not forget that there are other ways to cause issues with brain functioning besides neurotransmitters. 

[B_Daniel]

good post, Nightingale.  Just curious, how'd your doc determine that you have difficulty breaking down dopamine?  that was one of my doctor's (many) theories about me but we didn't know of a way to test it.

[Gbolduev]

Here is an interesting study.http://jn.nutrition.org/content/127/12/2282.full

Anemia  effects dopamine levels. When I had POIS I was anemic all the time.   

Anemia  could be caused by ;
1) iron  problem
2) copper problem
3)  vitamin B 12 problem
4) vitamin E
5) Manganese problem
6)B6 problem
7) zinc problem
  bleeding and worms(  Nathans   cure,     anti parasites, anti bleeding and  lecithin which helps  absorb iron)

First we look at hemo,   are we anemic,  or  close to anemic,  then we look at iron  and ferritin . If  ferritin  low,  then you are not absorbing  iron,  or taking some antagonists,  or  bleeding/   If  ferritin  high,  then you might miss copper or manganese or E.

I had low iron and high  ferritin ,  and  copper deficiency   and fast  thyroid because of it/  The minute  my breathing  started to improve the same moment  POIS was gone
   

[Gbolduev]

Dopamine is made by converting phenylalanine to tyrosine to L-dopa to dopamine. It is inactivated by the enzymes MAO (copper dependent) and COMT (using methyl groups).

[urano75]

Here is an interesting study.http://jn.nutrition.org/content/127/12/2282.full

Anemia  effects dopamine levels. When I had POIS I was anemic all the time.   

Anemia  could be caused by ;
1) iron  problem
2) copper problem
3)  vitamin B 12 problem
4) vitamin E
5) Manganese problem
6)B6 problem
7) zinc problem
  bleeding and worms(  Nathans   cure,     anti parasites, anti bleeding and  lecithin which helps  absorb iron)

First we look at hemo,   are we anemic,  or  close to anemic,  then we look at iron  and ferritin . If  ferritin  low,  then you are not absorbing  iron,  or taking some antagonists,  or  bleeding/   If  ferritin  high,  then you might miss copper or manganese or E.

I had low iron and high  ferritin ,  and  copper deficiency   and fast  thyroid because of it/  The minute  my breathing  started to improve the same moment  POIS was gone
 

I could add that very often hypothyroidism causes anemia, and viceversa anemia impairs thyroid function.
Poor adrenal function is also related to minerals imbalances, including iron.
People with low adrenal/thyroid function often have absorption issues, eg due to low stomach acid. This could be remedied with Apple Cider Vinegar, Betaine HCL, digestive enzymes.
Also, lack of iron doesn't allow thyroid hormones to be properly used at cellular level.
High ferritin is not necessarily caused by iron excess, but it could an indicator of inflammation, especially when serum iron /iron saturation% are otherwise normal or low. This can be confirmed by the presence of other inflammation indicators, like C-Reactive-Protein.

[LAPOISSE2]

I don't know how dopamine agonist works but as all inhibitor class medecine, (i)the effect is not immediate; (ii) there is important side effect, (iii)it can generate rebound effect regarding the mecanism itself and if POIS is created by a some kind of  dopamine rebound effect, it's not what we are looking for.
So i'm not certain, the Nightingale experience proof anything. Frankly, I think we don't understand 10% of all this things works and from my experience inhibitors drugs are garbage.


I still believe that dopamine is involved(I would say mostly) ; look at cognitive problem due to Parkinson, it's not permanent damage or decrease of intelectual faculty, people with Parkinson keep all their memory or cognitive ability, they just don't have acces to it as quick as usual. I feel exactly the same when I'm in POIS : everything is here, I just don't have a nice acces to it. I think it's not a coincidence that a lot of people here have ADHD.

I'll try for a month the soft cure to boost dopamine level :
-Sport(even if i'm a zombie)
-Avoid stress as much as possible
-Avoid junk food and sugar
-Tyrosine or tyrosine food like bananas and PS
-B3/B6/B12/C
-Iron/mag/zinc
-Omega 3
-Gingko
-Green tea
-Mucuna pruriens

I'll also avoid any O... activity for at least a month to see if there is any "reset" effect or "system rebalance" as suggested herman before.

This paper is interesting as all statements are explained by scientific papers
http://www.rlcure.com/dopaminer.html



 

[gondal4]

I avoided O for 6 months because i had jaudice and not going away but after that i didnt get better,first weakness remained one day after that it changed to weak or 4,5 days

[LAPOISSE2]

I avoided O for 6 months because i had jaudice and not going away but after that i didnt get better,first weakness remained one day after that it changed to weak or 4,5 days

OK, interesting ; Did you have POIS symtoms during this period of time ? What about noctural emission ?

[LAPOISSE2]

http://www.health-science-spirit.com/neurosex.html

Do you guys know this article ? Ever tried oxytocin spray ? Ever experienced lessened symtoms with long romantic sexual intercourse ?

[thereishope]

Very, very interesting article!

[gondal4]

I avoided O for 6 months because i had jaudice and not going away but after that i didnt get better,first weakness remained one day after that it changed to weak or 4,5 days

OK, interesting ; Did you have POIS symtoms during this period of time ? What about noctural emission ?

No i didnt had nocturnal emission and i was so weak to feel any other sypmtoms than jaundice...

[Nightingale]

good post, Nightingale.  Just curious, how'd your doc determine that you have difficulty breaking down dopamine?  that was one of my doctor's (many) theories about me but we didn't know of a way to test it.

Quite simply, I had a psychotic episode, and by default my doc at the time put me on the standard treatment: an atypical antipsychotic.  They act by blocking certain dopamine receptors in the brain thought to cause/contribute to psychosis and schizophrenia.  I responded to these drugs, and any time I have come off of them since my first episode, I returned to a psychotic state.

I have more evidence now to support the notion I have poor breakdown of dopamine, since I have 2 heterozygous COMT mutations.

[nathan123]

Hi Just now I came after 3rd appointment with the doctor.  My doctor has prescribed following medicines for the next last 15 days. 

a) Tablet Palsinuron 1-1-1 After food
b) Amla Juice - 30 ml of amla juice daily after wakeup with 30 ml of water.

This is to be taken only for next 15 days to get permanent relief of my symptoms.  Further, I can stop the strict diet which is followed for last month and now there is no restriction in food. 

He told that  POIS (they don't call in this name)is due to many reasons and cause is depending on person to person.  The reasons may  Excess Masturbation / Sex, Excess Weight, High Stress, Tension, nutritional imbalance, mineral imbalance, difference in hormones, physical weakness, weakness in Central Nervous System etc.  There is no exact cause known for POIS. 

Then I asked what is the reason for my POIS.  By seeing the my medical history, he told that I was taken Theo Asthalin for 4 years from 2004 to 2008.  The one of the side effect of this medicine is weakness in nervous system.  During this time, I had excess masturbation (may be it crossed one limit say daily 6 or 7) caused imbalance in my central nervous system.  My nervous system already interepted due to Theo Asthalin.  But my excessive masturbation take my CNS into a situtation of complete imbalance  and nuerotransmitter imbalance.  Due to this, my POIS symtoms started.  Further my POIS was continuos even though I stopped masturbation.  The cure for POIS for me is to balance the Central Nervous System which impaired. 

As per him, during the first appointment, he checked my pulse rate of my hand.  He found imbalance in it and suspected CNS imbalance.  Due to this to cure from this end, he prescribed Palsinuron for me.  Further, he also suspects problem in digestion system due to excess masturbation, to cure this he prescribed other medicines.  Further amla juice for detoxification of excess toxins in the body.  He also specifically mentions that for me major relief is from tab palsinuron and other medicines is prescribed is to ancilliary to cure other problems than POIS. 

He warned me to don't have excess SEX when I am
a) suffering from fever, illness, emotionally upset
b) having no sleep, Stress, Anxiery and Tenstion.

He told that if I had excess o (say 5 to 6 per day, when I am suffering from other illness, the chances of POIS reoccurence might be there.  So, he warned me to not to have more than 5 o when I am suffering from other illness. 

Further, he told to take palnusiron tablet for next last 15 days only.  Then there is no requirement to take. 

Further, I asked whether I am had thyroid problem during POIS period and his reply is No for this question and he repeated CNS and nuero transmitter. 

My next and may be final appointment is on April 15th.  Presently out of POIS and having around 5 o in a week.

I will update my status next on April 15th Night.

[Starsky]

Nightingale what is a psychotic episode, how are you acting, what are you feeling?

[GDRTW]

After reading Nathans analysis and watching this amazing and scary documentary about electro-magnetic smog that is encompassing us everyday I have a suspicion that my EMS (electro-magnetic sensitivity) may have triggered my POIS. I did enduce myself to lots of frequent exposure to electro-magnetic wavefields without knowing the potential health hazards. Magnetic wavefields can wreak havoc with one's central nervous system and both of my conditions arriveded at basically the same time (when I was around 18). I am not saying we all have EMS of course but I am just putting it out there as a potential 'coal in the fire' for my issues. By the way. ..if you think having POIS is bad then try having POIS and EMS. Jeez. Anyway...this is a link for the doc called 'Resonance - Beings of Frequency'.  It was made this year with all the latest in research development and truths concerning our over exposure to radiowaves. A little off the beaten track but seriously...

[urano75]

After reading Nathans analysis and watching this amazing and scary documentary about electro-magnetic smog that is encompassing us everyday I have a suspicion that my EMS (electro-magnetic sensitivity) may have triggered my POIS. I did enduce myself to lots of frequent exposure to electro-magnetic wavefields without knowing the potential health hazards. Magnetic wavefields can wreak havoc with one's central nervous system and both of my conditions arriveded at basically the same time (when I was around 18). I am not saying we all have EMS of course but I am just putting it out there as a potential 'coal in the fire' for my issues. By the way. ..if you think having POIS is bad then try having POIS and EMS. Jeez. Anyway...this is a link for the doc called 'Resonance - Beings of Frequency'.  It was made this year with all the latest in research development and truths concerning our over exposure to radiowaves. A little off the beaten track but seriously...

Good point. I've bought an EMF meter to scan my house (it's OK), thrown away the cordless phone, kept the WI-FI turned off  most of the time, and I use the mobile phone with headphones. Not something to be obsessed about, nonetheless probably something to consider when many things have been tried and one still feels sick.

See also http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PktaaxPl7RI