[4everfogged]

thank you foreverfogged.... i have also changed the diet recently .....turned to veggies and fruits...good improvement is seen on the overall physical appearance....was like a patient earlier  .  moreover the saggy face that comes after is improved ( have also began taking a glass of electrolyte water before and after O , maybe it reduced defydration)....

Hi abnormal8340

Glad to hear you have improvements with diet change. Sounds like your symtoms severity are changing location from head to body from your previous post.

[John21 (OP)]

Here are my (out of range) results from a heavy metals urine test:
Unprovoked:
Mercury => High Normal
Nickel    => Very High
Lead     =>  Normal

Provoked:
Mercury => High
Nickel    => Very High
Lead     => High

Has anyone else here had this test done? I am seriously considering if POIS might be related to heavy metals. Perhaps at orgasm the body dumps a massave amount of stored heavy metals into circulation, causing our symptoms.  Maybe the foods that have helped POIS have done so by assisting in chelation. I personally have found reduction in symptoms from eating garlic, spinach, and blueberries. Garlic is definitely a chelator, maybe the others are somehow as well. There is one particular event in my life that stands out as possible evidence of this theory. One night after I had sex I ended up sleeping in a car on a hot summer night. In the morning it was roasting hot with the sun beaming on me. That day on waking my diplopia was gone and I had no POIS. So how could that be related to heavy metals? Well,  sweating is one of the ways that the body eliminates toxins. If this theory is correct it could be exactly what we all need to prevent the POIS symptoms, to sweat alot! 

I am going to begin chelation before long. I will post if my diplopia or insomnia improves. I will not be able to analyze any POIS effects as I am chase , but I do recommend the sweating idea to anyone who is suffering with POIS.

Note to BJim: Taurine, which has helped you,  is often used in chelation. Just a thought.

[kurtosis]

Here are my (out of range) results from a heavy metals urine test:
Unprovoked:
Mercury => High Normal
Nickel    => Very High
Lead     =>  Normal

Provoked:
Mercury => High
Nickel    => Very High
Lead     => High

Has anyone else here had this test done? I am seriously considering if POIS might be related to heavy metals. Perhaps at orgasm the body dumps a massave amount of stored heavy metals into circulation, causing our symptoms.  Maybe the foods that have helped POIS have done so by assisting in chelation. I personally have found reduction in symptoms from eating garlic, spinach, and blueberries. Garlic is definitely a chelator, maybe the others are somehow as well. There is one particular event in my life that stands out as possible evidence of this theory. One night after I had sex I ended up sleeping in a car on a hot summer night. In the morning it was roasting hot with the sun beaming on me. That day on waking my diplopia was gone and I had no POIS. So how could that be related to heavy metals? Well,  sweating is one of the ways that the body eliminates toxins. If this theory is correct it could be exactly what we all need to prevent the POIS symptoms, to sweat alot! 

I am going to begin chelation before long. I will post if my diplopia or insomnia improves. I will not be able to analyze any POIS effects as I am chase , but I do recommend the sweating idea to anyone who is suffering with POIS.

Note to BJim: Taurine, which has helped you,  is often used in chelation. Just a thought.

Several POISers who sent me their medical results had low glutathione. Glutathione is increased by unblocking the methylation cycle, consuming methylated folates, N-Acetyl Cysteine and other methyl donors such as sulphur-containing amino acids like taurine, methionine & its derivative SAM-e.  Glutathione binds to heavy metals and enables their excretion.

What I've often wondered is if some POIS sufferers have consistently exposure to heavy metals as a result of their lifestyles, pollution, diet or if the heavy metal exposure is normal but our glutathione production is too low leading to heavy metal buildup. Either way, if you have low glutathione you're likely to have increased levels of heavy metals (even with average exposure from amalgam fillings etc.) and vice versa as heavy metals deplete the body's glutathione. The less efficiently you produce glutathione, the more likely you become deficient.

People with chronically low glutathione, such as in glutathione synthase deficiency where the enzyme that produces glutathione directly is inefficient, often have a range of neurological symptoms including poor coordination, speech problems, concentration and memory problems and even seizures. They may also suffer from recurrent infections, including on the skin.

There are many many articles published online about Glutathione depletion and heavy metals but some of the most interesting ones are those by Dr. Martin Pall who links it to Multiple Chemical Sensitivity and the late Rich Van Konynenburg on the Phoenix Rising ME/CFS forum. Rich was a very decent man and extremely helpful to anyone who asked him questions about his theories. You can read a bit about them here. http://phoenixrising.me/treating-cfs-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-me/treating-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-mecfs-glutathione-and-the-methylation-cycle

[B_Jim]

Very interesing. Anyway my heavy metals test is negative. It's important to start chelation to clean these metals. And it's a big hope for your Pois and general health.

The positive effect I get with taurine was too quick compared to a long time of chelation process .

I wonder if positive heavy metals couldn't be more a consequence than a cause.
 

People with chronically low glutathione, such as in glutathione synthase deficiency where the enzyme that produces glutathione directly is inefficient, often have a range of neurological symptoms including poor coordination, speech problems, concentration and memory problems and even seizures.

Do we have documents on this ?

Ok, your source is wikipedia.
Interesting to see glutathion is present in sperm (as a defender, when decreased it reduces fertility).
And glutathion synthetase deficiency is poorly sourced.

The negative point is glutathion deficiency seems linked to low red cells count. In my cases red cells parameters are strong close to up limit.

[John21 (OP)]

Very interesing. Anyway my heavy metals test is negative. It's important to start chelation to clean these metals. And it's a big hope for your Pois and general health.

What type of analysis did you have done for heavy metals? Hair or urine ?

[B_Jim]

It was an urine test.
I find there are many elements with glutathions.
What about glutathion deficiency after orgasm ?

[kurtosis]

Glutathione Syntethase Deficiency is described on the NIH website at [/size]http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/glutathione-synthetase-deficiency[/color][/size]NORD would know more about it.Here's more info http://www.orpha.net/consor4.01/www/cgi-bin/OC_Exp.php?lng=EN&Expert=32My point wasn't really to talk about GSD as that's a super rare disorder. It's more to understand that a chronic genetic disease that renders someone unable to function could give pointers in trying to understand a less severe condition that has periodic and/or consequential effects on enzymes, hormones etc. which produce similar symptoms. The chronic condition may produce other symptoms and testable biological markers (e.g. low red blood cell count) that are not applicable in a non-chronic condition where there are refractory periods and where there is enough glutathione to prevent chronic damage of red blood cells by ROS while not giving so much that other detoxification mechanisms, or indeed the oxidative burst used by white blood cells to kill pathogens, can take place effectively.

[kurtosis]

Apologies for the formatting problems. For whatever reason, the site isn't displaying properly in my browser today. Looks like there was an update of the forum software and there's a few glitches.

[B_Jim]

e.g. low red blood cell count

It is the point that make me think it may be a wrong way.

[pois_poster]

try this
prostatitis.org/doityourself.html

theory is prostate infection can not be cured by antibiotics, so you have to cleanse it yourself...

[John21 (OP)]

e.g. low red blood cell count

It is the point that make me think it may be a wrong way.

That sounds logical but I still am intrigued by the idea that sweating might have prevented my POIS that one particular time and eliminated my other symptoms. It might be a good test for someone to simply use a sauna post-sex to see if it reduces or eliminates POIS with the theory that it might allow the body to eliminate what is disturbing it.

[pois_poster]

i have ordered some Glutathione and im gonna try it...

[Biologyguy]

Hello, This is my first post to this and somehow any forum so if I violate some rules or something please let me know. Anyway I also suffer from POIS and have viewed this forum a few times over the past few years.
Feel free to ask me any questions as I don't know if this is the appropriate place/way to vomit information or talk about my experiences.

I am wondering if anyone with POIS (other than myself) has had any sort of DNA sequencing/testing done and thought about somehow using some sort of comparison to see if there may be some correlation between certain genetic sequences and us POIS sufferers?

[Vincent M]

Feel free to ask me any questions as I don't know if this is the appropriate place/way to vomit information or talk about my experiences.

Go ahead and share your symptoms and any remedies you've found to help you. Hypotheses are also welcome, but I don't find those as interesting. The only thing I can think of as far as rules is to avoid trying to advertise anything.

[John21 (OP)]

I had the chance to test my idea that simple sweating might assist in preventing POIS.  What I did was to eat a greasy supper (something I don't usually recommend) , then following orgasm I ensured that I sweated a lot. I did this by putting on layers with a nylon jacket to block air escaping and did a bunch of physical work for a while.  It is something you might feel a bit silly doing but I think it may be beneficial. I ate the greasy meal because I was trying to replicate a situation in the past when my health improved dramatically following sex ( Ate pizza, had sex, then slept in a car and woke up roasting hot in the summer morning).  The result this time was that I did not have any POIS as it would occur in the past. The only thing I had was that later in the week I seemed to have a heightened stress level.  I am thinking that maybe this method holds potential and I would be interested to know the results of anyone else trying it. My thinking is that following orgasm our bodies are struggling with something toxic that it simply wants to eliminate, and that sweating allows it to occur quickly. One potential toxin could be heavy metals that are stored in "sexual" areas of the brain or sex organs that are brought into circulation when that area is activated.  It may sound farfetched but I think it is worth investigation. If the greasy meal actually helped perhaps the saturated fat acted as a means of a carrier to be expelled by the skin. I prefer to stay chaste now but if I did it again I would put more focus on sweating even more the day of orgasm, and maybe even days following. A sauna would be another good means of forcing the body to sweat.

[John21 (OP)]

It occurs to me that if this idea pans out it might work for an entirely different reason. It may be that heating the skin enables a bacteria or virus to be killed similar to what happens when we get a cold or flu. If this is the case a sauna following sex might be best as it probably raises up the skin temperature more than simply working up a sweat would.

[acronym]

Here are my (out of range) results from a heavy metals urine test:
Unprovoked:
Mercury => High Normal
Nickel    => Very High
Lead     =>  Normal
...........

This was something I used to wonder about as well. I had all my mercury amalgams removed many years back and it never made any difference to my POIs. I have also had a provoked heavy metal urine test and I did not score high on any of the toxic metals. It would have been good if I did as it would have given me something concrete to work on, like you now have. Heavy metals did not show up in my hair analysis except for titanium which was really high (likely from teflon frypans which I dont use anymore).

Given what I have read up about the chemical cascade that takes place during orgasm, I would be surprised that heavy metals would be involved. I dare say there are plenty more people effected by heavy metals than there are of us with pois. I would have thought pois would be a mainstream symptom of chronic low level HM poisoning if it was.

It is possible that the heavy metals are effecting you/us by say blocking key enzymes from working. Maybe certain enzymes that help break down excess catecholamines are inhibited because say mercury/nickel is blocking say zinc/manganese from activating them.

Yes garlic is a chelator but I dont think blueberries or spinach is. I feel a bit better on garlic and blueberries (but nothing to rave about) but not spinach. Heavy metal toxicity can effect your digestive system however. Changing your diet may help you excrete the HM better and that is maybe why you feel better. Your unprovoked HM readings were on the high side, so it would seem your body is disposing of them which is a good thing. An unprovoked HM urine test that shows no heavy metals is not necessary a great result as they can be locked up in organs/tissues. From reading chronic health forums such as PheonixRising you will find that HM especially mercury can cause gut issues for people. It is also associated with parasites so for some of us who dont feel so bad on a restricted clean (no sugar low carb) diet it is because we are reducing parasites and bad gut bacteria load which (maybe exacerbated by mercury exposure). I feel improvement taking chlorella which is a chelator but also helps detox bad gut bacteria toxic byproducts.

No idea on hot car event. Have you ever tried saunas?  They help you detox. Give it a go for a couple of weeks and see. The thing about releasing and mobilizing HM is that you can also feel bad so I would be a little surprised if someone with high HM felt instantly wonderful after taking one sauna/hot car sleep, but maybe.

I did some saunas and I thought they helped me a bit (nothing to rave about) but because I was underweight they really drained me. My head tends to feel hot and I definitely feel better with pois in winter or on cold days or walking in the cold section of supermarket, so I dont do saunas. I remember Demo saying something similar about the cold for him.

Reducing your mercury load should definitely improve your sleep. Not sure on Nickel. How would you have exposure to nickel?  Did you ever do a hair analysis?

I have not read of Taurine being used in chelation but I think it improves bile so that would help with HM detox. I have had improvement in my health recently (reduction in brain fog) from taking the mineral molybdenum. It is used in some key enzymes that break down toxic byproducts of candida and also other compounds like formaldehyde and alcohol. I had higher than normal exposure to formaldehyde around the time I got pois. My pois improved on it (I wanted to test it longer before mentioning on here) but that aspect seems to have worn off, but I switched to a different form, so I am going to go back to the original brand now.

[acronym]

i have ordered some Glutathione and im gonna try it...

I have read that oral glutathione has poor absorption in the gut. If you don't notice much it maybe be because of this. If so then give NAC a try, which helps build your production of glutathione.
At one stage I had glutathione IV injections from my CFS doctor. I felt so wiped out on them. I would have to lie down in the clinic or backseat of my car afterwards for a couple of hours.I don't know why I had such a bad reaction, but have read of some other people also not reacting well to it.

[John21 (OP)]

acronym, thanks for your thoughts. I think the nickel exposure was due to using pure nickel guitar strings. I'm guessing that the nickel powder got on my fingers which was then ingested by eating something like sunflower seeds or maybe by holding the guitar pick in my mouth. I am now being careful not to hold the pick this way and to wash my hands after playing. I also used to eat way lots of spinach which is high in nickel, maybe that contributed.

[LupeNL]

This was something I used to wonder about as well. I had all my mercury amalgams removed many years back and it never made any difference to my POIs. I have also had a provoked heavy metal urine test and I did not score high on any of the toxic metals. It would have been good if I did as it would have given me something concrete to work on, like you now have. Heavy metals did not show up in my hair analysis except for titanium which was really high (likely from teflon frypans which I dont use anymore).

I've preached about mercury couple of times already on this board. Since the topic emerged, I thought I cut in again...

The thing with mercury is not as simple as having your amalgams removed and feeling a difference. It happens very rarely and sometimes people feel even worse after removal as it was done unsafely and significant exposure occured during the drilling out. If you really take the time to read scientific studies about mercury, you will discover that mercury is EXTREMELY TOXIC. It's so overlooked how toxic it is. Seriously, it doesn't even compare to lead, nickel or aluminium which are dangerous by themselves.

Also, it's scientifically proven that mercury goes inside your tissues and stays there forever if not chelated. That's why it's so difficult to trace with medical test. Blood and urine tests are irrelevant. Hair test can be helpful in a way that it can detect deranged mineral transport caused by mercury, but level of mercury would stilll be low on the test.

Here's Boyd Haley talking about mercury in hair and relation to autism:
youtube.com/watch?v=anirpRdz8I8

Many autistic children have problems with sexual hormones, very low or very high libido. Autism itself is an extreme manifestation of many chronic, systemic problems. POIS is one of the many weird problems resulting from fundamental dysregulation

Yes garlic is a chelator but I dont think blueberries or spinach is. I feel a bit better on garlic and blueberries (but nothing to rave about) but not spinach.

Garlic is not the chelator. Neither are blueberries or spinach. Garlic is sulfury and has thiols, which are compounds binding mercury however not strong enough to result in excretion. Many mercury toxic people are sensitive to high-thiol foods without realizing it. The reason is thiol sensitivity is very tricky. You can feel very good for few hours after eating a thiol containing food due to mercury being bound. Then comes the downside when mercury is unbound again and redistribution occurs. Since most people eat high thiol foods daily there's no way of recognizing it and it's a constant vicious circle. More on thiols:

livingnetwork.co.za/chelationnetwork/food/high-sulfur-sulphur-food-list/

I'm convinced that POIS is casued by mercury. Since I discovered that I'm thiol-sensitive and restricted my diet significantly MY POIS IS GONE and I'm orgasming daily without any issues. As soon as I eat a piece of high-thiol food all the symptoms are back, however not nearly as bad as they were initialy thanks to chelation protocol I've been doing since few months. It may take some time but based on the progress already I'm certain I will declare a final victory.

P.