Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2100 on: 24/11/2008 23:46:23 »

If the majority of us POIS sufferers were to fit into this category of prepubescent sexual activity I think this would be valuable data. It might give ourselves or researchers a cue to what mechanism might be causing our suffering, perhaps leading to a remedy.  For most of us this problem has been very destructive in our lives and it is understandable that we would hate the thought of personally having a hand in it (pun intended). Believe me, I have agonized about this as well. Hopefully it is not true, but I don't think we should cover our eyes to keep from seeing something unpleasant. 


I agree, John, that facing old traumas is much, much easier to avoid! And my comment was really glib, perhaps to cover up some unpleasant memories of youth. I don't know if you agree with me, but I do wonder about excessive guilt and shame - which I was certainly taught - that might have created "the punishment for 'wrongful' sexual indulgence" early on...and then blossomed into a full-swing hormonal imbalance that is now known as POIS?
« Last Edit: 25/11/2008 00:23:06 by demografx »

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Offline hurray

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2101 on: 25/11/2008 00:13:37 »
Thanks for the encouragement demografx, fenugreek really does seem to have nailed POIS for me!

One way of getting more publicity might be to try to get a wikipedia entry set up for POIS, with a link to this forum as a source. Millions of people read and trust wikipedia, and it always gets very high on googles ranking for any given word. Unfortunately, wikipedia can be a bit elitist with their entries, so any new entry would probably need to be written and formatted by an exprienced wikipedian to stand a chance of surviving.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2102 on: 25/11/2008 00:30:06 »
Thanks for the encouragement demografx, fenugreek really does seem to have nailed POIS for me!

I know I've heard it, but it's still exciting!!!


One way of getting more publicity might be to try to get a wikipedia entry set up for POIS, with a link to this forum as a source. Millions of people read and trust wikipedia, and it always gets very high on googles ranking for any given word. Unfortunately, wikipedia can be a bit elitist with their entries, so any new entry would probably need to be written and formatted by an exprienced wikipedian to stand a chance of surviving.


Fantastic idea! I think someone else may have proposed that once, but we didn't move on it. Wow. Thank you, hurray!

I don't think I'm the best guy/gal to take a stab at it. Any takers?

ANOTHER THOUGHT: this one might even be tougher...how do we reach the offline world of POIS sufferers? And no, I'm not willing to go on 60 Minutes [:)]

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2103 on: 25/11/2008 00:35:11 »
Demo, I understand your concern in upping your dosage. The listed side effects of medications can make one quite apprehensive, been there done that.

Sure, early feelings about masturbation are definitely worth a look. Could shame influence our systems to morph into this problem we have? I don't know, but I find it more plausible that our sexual nervous/endocrine system was exercised to go big while it was still developing. I personally did not experience feelings of shame specific to masturbation that I can remember.

No 60 Minutes? How about Oprah?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2104 on: 25/11/2008 00:41:23 »
Demo, I understand your concern in upping your dosage. The listed side effects of medications can make one quite apprehensive, been there done that.

Sure, early feelings about masturbation are definitely worth a look. Could shame influence our systems to morph into this problem we have? I don't know, but I find it more plausible that our sexual nervous/endocrine system was exercised to go big while it was still developing. I personally did not experience feelings of shame specific to masturbation that I can remember.

No 60 Minutes? How about Oprah?

OK, John...Oprah it is. What I wouldn't do for the First Poster At The POIS Forum!

Very interesting about "going big"...reminds me of what my Korean Alternative Medicine guru said: "your adrenal glands are too small to withstand orgasm."

You're right. That sounds more plausible than the early guilt and shame.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2105 on: 25/11/2008 00:51:22 »


OK, John, Oprah it is, but I want my voice disguised too!!
« Last Edit: 25/11/2008 01:04:44 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2106 on: 25/11/2008 01:47:51 »
I just had a thought, maybe our efforts should be aimed at attracting researchers tied to universities rather than more of the public. This forum might eventually get flooded with people posting about their experiences. That might leed to difficulties in our communication and campaign planning.
For example the youtube video could link to a wikipedia page providing a discription of the illness. The wikipedia page should end with advising people to see endocrinologists and start their own campaigns in the aim of attracting researchers. The wikipedia page should also make a direct appeal to medical researchers.

Hurray, this might have been the wikipedia reference (bold emphasis is mine) that I mentioned earlier.
« Last Edit: 25/11/2008 01:49:28 by demografx »

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Offline tarkington

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2107 on: 25/11/2008 02:59:12 »
I want to mention that before I found this forum I was reading religious forums like
http://www.fredstoeker.com/community/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=b16fea73a5ad7b6641f12646c030013d

There are alot of people that believe their POIS symptoms are due to guilt and religious in nature.  I thought this for a long time.  But I realized after reading this forum that I was suffering from a physical problem, not spiritual.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2108 on: 25/11/2008 04:31:29 »
Tarkington... I'm so glad you found this place.  I'm going to try Relora soon.  There are also some other very good supplements to deal with cortisol problems, I will post about shortly.
« Last Edit: 25/11/2008 04:33:17 by Counterpoints »

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Offline Finally

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2109 on: 25/11/2008 04:57:24 »
If the disease was totally from guilt of taking part in an immoral act then married people would no longer get POIS and I believe several here are married.  

I experienced 1st sexual feelings at 11 or 12 more psychological than physical. NEs at 12 or 13 and began masturbation at 14. I was into sports so at times I didn't have time or energy to go overboard.  After HS it became more of an everyday thing. I had a near death experience which made me stop for a few months.  Once I started again is when the POIs really began.  So abstinence seemed like the  cure.    
I almost got married to be cured but fortunately that never came about.  Not a good reason.

No 60 minutes or Oprah.  But what about DR Drew?

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2110 on: 25/11/2008 15:47:54 »
I psychology and religeous faith thingy, i think is very bull.  If we get pois from NE which is not masturbation. What is there to be guilty about NE. I had not guilt at all.
But I think may be overdoing since i was fourteen could have created or made it worse. 
I remember when i was younger i used to absent minded alot, that could have been from pois and it got worse over years due to doing it too much. 


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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2111 on: 25/11/2008 15:57:27 »
What about about talk sex with that old lady on oxygen, she seems like the kind that will believe us.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2112 on: 25/11/2008 16:06:38 »
Something funny happened though.
After orgasm i ate a jar of garlic and used relora.   Right after I went to sleep, which i believe was due to relora. And in sleep i had NE, which i believe was due to garlic. 
This combination seems to have reduced my recovery time from one week to one day.
I have been using relora for about a week or two at night before this incidence.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2113 on: 25/11/2008 16:39:56 »
There are alot of people that believe their POIS symptoms are due to guilt and religious in nature.  I thought this for a
long time.  But I realized after reading this forum that I was suffering from a physical problem, not spiritual.

Any illness for which they have not figured out a clear cause is in danger of being categorized as a "psychological
or spiritual problem." This is especially true with conditions that affect the brain and cause "mental" symptoms, as
does POIS. And when it comes to ailments pertaining to sex, the chances of being pigeonholed into that psycho-
spiritual waste basket of a category are multiplied exponentially.

It's a predictable scenario. As one with both CFS and POIS, I was subjected to it for decades, but I'm not willing to be
subjected to it any more.

« Last Edit: 25/11/2008 16:45:12 by girlwind »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2114 on: 25/11/2008 17:35:44 »
There are alot of people that believe their POIS symptoms are due to guilt and religious in nature.  I thought this for a long time.  But I realized after reading this forum that I was suffering from a physical problem, not spiritual.

Tarkington, seems like you and I have traveled similar paths! I also thought it was guilt/religious/spiritual at one time.
« Last Edit: 25/11/2008 17:38:49 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2115 on: 25/11/2008 17:43:47 »
No 60 minutes or Oprah.  But what about DR Drew?

I think Dr Drew (who once had a sex-TV show) is now too busy overseeing celebrity drug/alcohol rehab on TV series plus his real life as Hospital Rehab Director.
« Last Edit: 25/11/2008 18:08:51 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2116 on: 25/11/2008 17:47:23 »
What about about talk sex with that old lady on oxygen, she seems like the kind that will believe us.

CCconfucius: Excellent idea! Sue Johanson, Canadian talk show (link below). CCconfucius, how about writing her about POIS Forum and showing girlwind's video link? Tell her we've had over 160,000 viewers at our site.

I would write her and say that her viewers who are POIS sufferers would be thrilled to know about this.

http://www.talksexwithsue.com/contact.html


CC, they don't want "sex questions" by email...so just say that we'd like to mutually promote each other!

But if you don't wish to, CC, that's fine, just let me know.
« Last Edit: 26/11/2008 01:40:20 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2117 on: 25/11/2008 17:55:07 »
There are alot of people that believe their POIS symptoms are due to guilt and religious in nature.  I thought this for a
long time.  But I realized after reading this forum that I was suffering from a physical problem, not spiritual.

Any illness for which they have not figured out a clear cause is in danger of being categorized as a "psychological
or spiritual problem." This is especially true with conditions that affect the brain and cause "mental" symptoms, as
does POIS. And when it comes to ailments pertaining to sex, the chances of being pigeonholed into that psycho-
spiritual waste basket of a category are multiplied exponentially.

It's a predictable scenario. As one with both CFS and POIS, I was subjected to it for decades, but I'm not willing to be
subjected to it any more.

Girlwind, congratulations on "escaping". As you well know, it is a very long, difficult road to disentagle from stupid societal norms/bugaboos/controls! Albeit stupid, it's really tough to be "one against the masses".
« Last Edit: 25/11/2008 18:07:18 by demografx »

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2118 on: 25/11/2008 19:02:02 »
I just had a heart to heart with my Endocrinologyst.  This is the first time I told her about POIS directly.  In the past I alway told her about the symptoms so that I could get tests (doctors tend to give you tests when just give them 'blind' symptoms).  So now she knows they weren't 'blind' :)

Anyhow, she had no idea what was causing POIS ; however, she did recommend that I see a urologyst (sp?).  She said that urologysts deal with sexual problems.  Sigh...I tried to tell her that the symptoms all led to endrocine problems.  She also said she doesn't think it's endocrine because I don't have physical problems like troubles getting erection or ejaculating.  But that the problems are cognative (and boy do I hate cognative problems).  So thats that.  I just wanted to share it with you and add to our 'library'.

Dazed and confused (literally),
Limejuice
« Last Edit: 25/11/2008 19:04:01 by Limejuice »

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2119 on: 25/11/2008 23:30:55 »
Anyhow, she had no idea what was causing POIS ; however, she did recommend that I see a urologyst (sp?).  She said that
urologysts deal with sexual problems.  Sigh...I tried to tell her that the symptoms all led to endrocine problems.  She also
said she doesn't think it's endocrine because I don't have physical problems like troubles getting erection or ejaculating. 
But that the problems are cognative (and boy do I hate cognative problems).  So thats that.  I just wanted to share it with
you and add to our 'library'.

Dazed and confused (literally),
Limejuice

Limejuice I'm sorry for your bad experience with the endocrinologist.

Last I heard the brain is a physical organ with GLANDS in it. Hello!  So that would make at least some
cognitive problems physical problems. Too bad that she managed to misplace that fact.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2120 on: 26/11/2008 01:21:55 »
I just had a heart to heart with my Endocrinologyst.  This is the first time I told her about POIS directly.  In the past I alway told her about the symptoms so that I could get tests (doctors tend to give you tests when just give them 'blind' symptoms).  So now she knows they weren't 'blind' :)

Anyhow, she had no idea what was causing POIS ; however, she did recommend that I see a urologyst (sp?).  She said that urologysts deal with sexual problems.  Sigh...I tried to tell her that the symptoms all led to endrocine problems.  She also said she doesn't think it's endocrine because I don't have physical problems like troubles getting erection or ejaculating.  But that the problems are cognative (and boy do I hate cognative problems).  So thats that.  I just wanted to share it with you and add to our 'library'.

Dazed and confused (literally),
Limejuice

FWIW, I've had zero-understanding from urologists. They were one of my biggest disappointments. Mainly because my expectations of them were high: I thought just like your endocrinologist that urologist = sexual disturbances. A natural. No way!

And your endocrinologist sounds just like Girlwind's warnings.
« Last Edit: 26/11/2008 01:41:42 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2121 on: 26/11/2008 02:06:56 »
POIS DIARY

Well, yesterday was the day, with 20mg Levitra, up from 10mg for over a year. 20mg is better than the last 2X at 10mg. Maybe I built tolerance. Maybe the expiration date of the last 10mg's reduced its effectiveness those two times before.

Just a little tired today. I wonder if that's normal? Athletes are told to refrain sexually the day before.

Anyway, this is far from the POIS agony of my life. Hope it's not a new placebo [:)]
« Last Edit: 26/11/2008 02:19:55 by demografx »

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2122 on: 26/11/2008 04:09:12 »
Good luck Demo - I hope your new experiement is safe and effective.  I look forward to your next diary entry.

I still feel like my Endocrinologist was heart-felt and genuine and wanted to help if she know what the solution was.  She has offered to do light research and I told her about this website and the other doctor from Holland.  I don't know what will come of it but I feel as though if I want to do blood work she will allow me to experiement.  That is valuable to me and us.  Just speaking my mind.

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Offline tarkington

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2123 on: 26/11/2008 04:32:36 »
I feel less crazy when I know that you, demografx, have been down a similar thinking process.  I used to be so intense in trying to find a reason, some spiritual cure, that would allow me to be guilt free. I am sure there are alot of people in the same situation.  I wonder just how common POIS is? 

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Offline barry_duffman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2124 on: 26/11/2008 06:31:42 »
[...]OK, guys and gals, two hours ago I took  [:o]20mg of Levitra (my pharmacology-lawyer friend said if I didn't go blind with 10mg I should be ok with 20!) - oh, man, what I risk in the name of science!

So far, as always, my fingertips are "dried up" (hard to describe) - but not as bad as usual. [...]

Hi demografx. Could you please elaborate on what you mean by "dried up" fingertips?

Skin wrinkling due to water immersion is an indicator of sympathetic innervation, and IMO may potentially be affected by certain types of autonomic dysfunction.

"Water immersion wrinkling--physiology and use as an indicator of sympathetic function." (Clin Auton Res. 2004 Apr;14(2):125-31.)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15095056

"Water-immersion wrinkling is due to vasoconstriction." (Muscle Nerve. 2003 Mar;27(3):307-11.)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12635117

Thanks!

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Offline Whoa

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2125 on: 26/11/2008 09:06:22 »
I want to mention that before I found this forum I was reading religious forums like
http://www.fredstoeker.com/community/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=b16fea73a5ad7b6641f12646c030013d

There are alot of people that believe their POIS symptoms are due to guilt and religious in nature.  I thought this for a long time.  But I realized after reading this forum that I was suffering from a physical problem, not spiritual.

I think that's a load of bollocks, at least in my case. I've never had any guilt over orgasm and am not religious.

That said, the Taoists equate the loss of ejaculatory fluid with the loss of vital life force. This leads me to believe that perhaps POIS has been around for some time and is not some new thing that popped up as the result of all the chemically "enhanced" foods we consume nowadays.

Personally, I find the Taoist approach more reasonable even if it is not backed by science.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KWZ/is_9_6/ai_n15394266
http://www.healing-tao.co.uk/Article_Taoist_Ejaculation_Formula.htm

The times that I've tried Tantra, I've felt satisfied without ejaculation, I had no POIS symptoms. There definitely is a link between ejaculation and POIS, for me anyway.

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Offline laroux

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2126 on: 26/11/2008 14:27:21 »
My girlfriend, who is 36, has been suffering from POIS for several years and I think we've finally found something that alleviates her symptoms and possibly is causing them.  Prior to the onset of POIS at age 34, she had never had issues with feeling lousy after orgasm, now she is basically bedridden for two days afterward.  All of her symptoms seem to be the same as the men who post on this forum.  She also has been complaining of severe back and shoulder pain (unrelated to sex) for about the same 2 year period.  She has tried all sorts of treatments for the back pain and none seem to work.  She also has the same POIS systems the day after after drinking ANY alchol... and I mean only 1 sip.  She doesn't get the typical hangover (headache, nausea) like most people, just severe POIS like symptoms.  She says it feels exactly the same.  I think it was this link that helped us to find out what was going on with her.

Yesterday we were just cuddling and both became aroused.  The phone rang and the mood passed... we wound up not having sex.  Even so, she began suffering from POIS systems shortly afterward.  Out of compassion for her and frustration for what was happening to her, I began researching the link between sexual arousal and hormone release.  In both men and women, I found that Oxytocin and Vasopressin are released during sexual arousal and peak their release during orgasm.  I further discovered that in some people, this release of Oxytocin and vasopressin can cause hyponatremia,(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyponatremia) which can result in the severe myalgiaic symptoms, fatigue and headache that she experiences.  The result of the hyponatremia is a low sodium electrolyte balance.  I gave her a small glass of water with 1/2 teaspoon of salt and she felt better within 5 minutes.  Has anyone else tried saltwater and felt better?

While we don't know the root cause of her sodium electrolyte imbalance, we have now tried the saltwater thing 3-4 times and in every case it has not only resolved her symptoms completely but made her feel fantastic.  Her back pain and joint pain even resolved.  Clearly she has to be careful about how much saltwater she ingests but the link between electrolyte imbalance and her POIS symptoms could not be ignored.  Has anyone else tried this treatment with success?

She has not had any alcohol since we discovered this treatment for her POIS symptoms.  We don't know if they are related but if anyone else has these "hangovers" that mirror POIS symptoms after just a tiny amount of alcohol, we'd be very interested to know.  Also, please let us know if the saltwater works for you.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2127 on: 26/11/2008 16:11:14 »




HAPPY THANKSGIVING!
« Last Edit: 26/11/2008 16:14:01 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2128 on: 26/11/2008 16:24:39 »
[...]OK, guys and gals, two hours ago I took  [:o]20mg of Levitra (my pharmacology-lawyer friend said if I didn't go blind with 10mg I should be ok with 20!) - oh, man, what I risk in the name of science!

So far, as always, my fingertips are "dried up" (hard to describe) - but not as bad as usual. [...]

Hi demografx. Could you please elaborate on what you mean by "dried up" fingertips?

Skin wrinkling due to water immersion is an indicator of sympathetic innervation, and IMO may potentially be affected by certain types of autonomic dysfunction.

"Water immersion wrinkling--physiology and use as an indicator of sympathetic function." (Clin Auton Res. 2004 Apr;14(2):125-31.)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15095056

"Water-immersion wrinkling is due to vasoconstriction." (Muscle Nerve. 2003 Mar;27(3):307-11.)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12635117

Thanks!

Welcome, Barry!

Don't forget to grab some popcorn and see Girlwind's POIS video:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBxAUC9k1g

For our internal information sharing and outside researchers' use, a questionnaire:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

Barry, the dried up fingertips are hard to explain. I only get them in POIS. The fingertips feel numb, dry and the sensation - for some reason - drives me nuts! [;D]

I once visited a skeptical dermatologist about this, and he said, indeed, I had dermatitis during POIS! He prescribed a worthless skin care lotion [:)]

I hope you find this place reassuring and helpful and welcoming!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2129 on: 26/11/2008 16:33:24 »
POIS DIARY

Well, yesterday was the day, with 20mg Levitra, up from 10mg for over a year. 20mg is better than the last 2X at 10mg. Maybe I built tolerance. Maybe the expiration date of the last 10mg's reduced its effectiveness those two times before.

Just a little tired today. I wonder if that's normal? Athletes are told to refrain sexually the day before.

Anyway, this is far from the POIS agony of my life. Hope it's not a new placebo [:)]

POIS DIARY

OK, It's "Day 2" and I'm much less tired. My fingertip sensations - and other POIS symptoms! - were gone yesterday and today.

I'm still feeling the higher anti-POIS strength of 40mg Levitra vs 20mg. Beware placebo, of course.

Very optimistic at times. As I mentioned, the two previous times at 10mg were disappointing.

I'm still not crazy about the reported nasty side effects of Levitra...which can be horrendous! Who cares if it's only one-in-a-million...if that one-in-a-million is you!

I hope to eventually investigate Horny Goat Weed. Sounds much safer...or is it???

Thanks for listening, everyone!
« Last Edit: 26/11/2008 16:36:48 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2130 on: 26/11/2008 18:53:54 »
My girlfriend, who is 36, has been suffering from POIS for several years and I think we've finally found something that alleviates her symptoms and possibly is causing them...I gave her a small glass of water with 1/2 teaspoon of salt and she felt better within 5 minutes.  Has anyone else tried saltwater and felt better?

Welcome, laroux! You're a really caring boyfriend!

For your girlfriend, see our forum member Girlwind's (yes, female!) POIS video:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBxAUC9k1g

The saltwater idea is amazing! I'm sure there will be more-than-willing trials here at the forum! Thank you, laroux!

Anyone, any thoughts about saltwater and/or vasopressin and/or oxytocin as it relates to our previous discussions?

laroux, I no longer drink alcohol, but when I did, if it was excessive (it didn't take much, but more than a sip was needed), I could have a 4-day hangover. Not the same as POIS, but some similarities. The critical fact was that it lasted the 4 days. Same with jet lag. And Monday back-to-work blues (which lasted often till Thursday). I assume there's a connection somehow between POIS and all those other days-long disturbances.
« Last Edit: 26/11/2008 19:11:10 by demografx »

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2131 on: 26/11/2008 19:36:10 »
My girlfriend, who is 36, has been suffering from POIS for several years and I think we've finally found something that alleviates her symptoms
and possibly is causing them...I gave her a small glass of water with 1/2 teaspoon of salt and she felt better within 5 minutes.  Has anyone else
tried saltwater and felt better?

While we don't know the root cause of her sodium electrolyte imbalance, we have now tried the saltwater thing 3-4 times and in every case
it has not only resolved her symptoms completely but made her feel fantastic.  Her back pain and joint pain even resolved.  Clearly she has
to be careful about how much saltwater she ingests but the link between electrolyte imbalance and her POIS symptoms could not be ignored. 
Has anyone else tried this treatment with success?

She has not had any alcohol since we discovered this treatment for her POIS symptoms.  We don't know if they are related but if anyone else
has these "hangovers" that mirror POIS symptoms after just a tiny amount of alcohol, we'd be very interested to know.  Also, please let us know
if the saltwater works for you.

Thanks Laroux. The saltwater remedy is a great idea! And something I will definitely consider. It was one of the remedies
I recently read about in a book by a woman who cured herself of CFS. She has a chapter devoted to Maintaining Optimal Blood
Pressure, which is one of the big problems with CFS patients, like me. (I have both POIS and CFS and my average bp is about
95/55.)  According to her research, drinking more water and increasing salt intake can raise the blood volume, which naturally
elevates bp.

According to your research, the salt water could also help hyponatremia and its resulting electrolyte balance.
I really look forward to trying this and will keep you posted!

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2132 on: 26/11/2008 20:16:27 »
laroux - what brand of salt did you use?  Was it ionized?

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2133 on: 26/11/2008 20:27:22 »
Fenugreek update - I've used fenugreek for 2 weeks with continued success.  I almost feel POIS free around the clock now!  What I'm beginning to experience are mild sustained headaches like light pressure that I believe is from the fenugreek.  I stopped taking the herb for a day and the headaches disappeared.  Going forward I'll only take fenugreek before orgasm.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2134 on: 26/11/2008 21:26:11 »
Fenugreek update - I've used fenugreek for 2 weeks with continued success.  I almost feel POIS free around the clock now!  What I'm beginning to experience are mild sustained headaches like light pressure that I believe is from the fenugreek.  I stopped taking the herb for a day and the headaches disappeared.  Going forward I'll only take fenugreek before orgasm.

Limejuice, congratulations!!!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2135 on: 26/11/2008 22:09:02 »
FENUGREEK

What doses and frequency are people using? Is Solgar the preferred brand?

How was fenugreek first stumbled upon? What was the theory? Cortisol? Oxytocin?

Just a reminder: Fenugreek is in your pharmacy's Rx-interaction systems, so it behooves us to check to see if there is any potentially adverse consequence when taking fenugreek along with other medications, including OTC. I checked my Rx profile, and the pharmacist said she saw no problem with fenugreek for me.
« Last Edit: 27/11/2008 01:54:24 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2136 on: 26/11/2008 22:25:06 »
Good luck Demo - I hope your new experiement is safe and effective.  I look forward to your next diary entry.

I still feel like my Endocrinologist was heart-felt and genuine and wanted to help if she know what the solution was.  She has offered to do light research and I told her about this website and the other doctor from Holland.  I don't know what will come of it but I feel as though if I want to do blood work she will allow me to experiement.  That is valuable to me and us.  Just speaking my mind.

Limejuice, great. Sorry if I was overly negative. I'm a little apprehensive about my first meeting with Doctor Endo [:)]

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2137 on: 26/11/2008 22:35:18 »
I feel less crazy when I know that you, demografx, have been down a similar thinking process.  I used to be so intense in trying to find a reason, some spiritual cure, that would allow me to be guilt free. I am sure there are alot of people in the same situation.  I wonder just how common POIS is? 

From every indication I've seen, Tarkington, I think POIS is very rare.

In 30 years of fairly active seeking, I never met a doctor or therapist or counselor or clergy who's heard of it. And Dr Waldinger (the "founder" of POIS), who specializes in sexually-related illnesses in a hospital, only encountered 5 POIS cases in 5 years.

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Offline laroux

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2138 on: 27/11/2008 00:21:52 »
Thanks everyone for the warm welcome!  It's very reassuring to my girlfriend to know that she is not alone!  She wanted me to make sure that I mentioned that she used celtic sea salt to resolve her symptoms.  She used iodized salt this afternoon and it gave her a headache.  Please let us know if the sea salt and water works for you... and for those among you with medical credentials, please let us know if there is any validity to the hyponatremia theory.

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Offline gement

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2139 on: 27/11/2008 00:38:52 »
Hi everybody, I'm new here. This forum has been the best on the subject of POIS I have discovered so far. I want to say thank you to all the suffering who were so forthcoming with their posts. I have been suffering with POIS for about 20 years. I  have been diagnosed with unipolar depression for about 16 years. My psych. tells me he thinks the two are related. He is the director of psychiatry at my local hospital. During his experience and studies, he has seen some patients who have neuro-transmitting chemical imbalances in the brain also develop hypersensitivity to their bodies own chemicals, such as hormones and other chemicals. I initially had some POIS like symptoms result after exercising using weight resistance. Then a few years later I realized I was also having the symptoms after orgasm. Over the past 12 years the symptoms have been severe. The duration is 3 full days after activity, and began approx. 20-30 minutes after orgasm. The symptoms are as follows:

First day

1)Negative Energy Feeling in my body
2)Stuffy Nose
3)Mild Joint Pain (knees, knuckles, ankles, shoulders and wrists)
4)Body Stiffness (neck, back)
5)Pale Face, Dark Circles under eyes)
6)Itchy Skin, specially on the hands and fingers
7)Brain Fog (forgetfulness, altered speech)
8)Extreme Irritability
9)Insomnia

Days 2 and 3 (additional symptoms)

10)Itchy Eyes upon awakening
11)Extreme Fatigue
12)Irritable Bowel and Soft Stool
13)Throat Irritation
14)Clogged Ears
15)Sinus Headache
16)Self -Confidence Level dropped





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Offline hurray

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2140 on: 27/11/2008 01:08:27 »
FENUGREEK

What doses and frequency are people using? Is Solgar the preferred brand?

How was fenugreek first stumbled upon? What was the theory? Cortisol? Oxytocin?

Just a reminder: Fenugreek is in pharmacy Rx-interaction systems, so it behooves us to check (OTC, too)

When I first tested Fenugreek, I had been doing some research into oxytocin, since it is known to be released during orgasm. My initial thought was that my oxytocin reserves might somehow have been severely depleted during orgasm, leading to the symptoms of POIS. Maybe having more oxytocin available would lessen the symptoms?
Various websites credit Fenugreek with having an "oxytocin-like" effect - as synthetic oxytocin is very difficult to obtain and administer, I thought it would be worth giving Fenugreek a try.

My other line of thinking was that there is research showing a connection between autism and low oxytocin levels: http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/21920
One of the main symptoms of POIS is inability to socialise properly - could it be that POIS makes us feel temporarily a little autistic due to oxytocin depletion?

Aside from its very pleasing success at getting rid of my POIS symptoms, it has the side effect when I use it of making me feel closer to people and more sociable than I have ever been before. Other people have genuinely reciprocated my new-found sociability - if it didn't sound rather boastful, I would say that it has made me more charismatic :)

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Offline Chewbacca

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2141 on: 27/11/2008 01:37:15 »
Re:hurray

What dosage of fenugreek are you using hurray. I got "lucky" this morning and I didn't get to take the fenugreek until after said activity. I popped two solgar fenugreek pills right after, and I think I'm going to take another before I go to bed. What works best for you as of late? Any breast tissue increase? :)(J/K)

Re:Laroux

If I end up feeling shitty tomorrow you can rest assured I'm giving the sea salt a try! It would be wonderful if all we had to do to cure our POIS was drink a glass of Celtic sea salt. I'm praying it's just that simple. Thank you for sharing you experience with this forum! It may be of great benefit!

RE:Demografx

hurray came up with the idea for taking fenugreek as an oxytocin synergist. I was the one who connected your experiences with levitra to oxytocin since PDE-5 inhibitors increase the level of pituitary oxytocin release when taken before sexual stimulation. What's interesting to me is that laroux stated that the release of oxytocin and vasopressin can cause hyponatremia. Something that his girlfreind might have. What really interests me is the connection between all these phenomena and potential remedies.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2142 on: 27/11/2008 02:03:11 »
Hi everybody, I'm new here. This forum has been the best on the subject of POIS I have discovered so far. I want to say thank you to all the suffering who were so forthcoming with their posts. I have been suffering with POIS for about 20 years. I  have been diagnosed with unipolar depression for about 16 years. My psych. tells me he thinks the two are related...

Welcome, gement!

Thanks for the compliments to the forum. I have had POIS at least 30 years. I agree with you and your psychiatrist about the depression-POIS link. Lately, I've come to wonder if that's where my depression started.

Thanks for revealing much of your detail. It's another compliment to this group that you're willing to share that with us on your very first post!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2143 on: 27/11/2008 02:12:42 »
When I first tested Fenugreek, I had been doing some research into oxytocin, since it is known to be released during orgasm. My initial thought was that my oxytocin reserves might somehow have been severely depleted during orgasm, leading to the symptoms of POIS. Maybe having more oxytocin available would lessen the symptoms?
Various websites credit Fenugreek with having an "oxytocin-like" effect - as synthetic oxytocin is very difficult to obtain and administer, I thought it would be worth giving Fenugreek a try.

My other line of thinking was that there is research showing a connection between autism and low oxytocin levels: http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/21920
One of the main symptoms of POIS is inability to socialise properly - could it be that POIS makes us feel temporarily a little autistic due to oxytocin depletion?

Aside from its very pleasing success at getting rid of my POIS symptoms, it has the side effect when I use it of making me feel closer to people and more sociable than I have ever been before. Other people have genuinely reciprocated my new-found sociability - if it didn't sound rather boastful, I would say that it has made me more charismatic :)

Thanks, hurray! I appreciate the recap. It's hard to keep all the myriad experiences/theories straight with this POIS-ravaged brain of mine. [:D]

The oxytocin theory is fascinating. And I hate to be a worry-wart, but everyone keep in mind what my pharmacology-lawyer friend said: taking oxytocin directly could be lethal.

Fenugreek sounds like a low-risk way to oxytocin replenishment!

Fascinating again is the social-anxiety association. The more I read here about it, the more I can see how it's been true for me!

Someone here (girlwind?) said oxytocin is also known as "the cuddly chemical".
« Last Edit: 27/11/2008 02:15:08 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2144 on: 27/11/2008 02:22:56 »
RE:Demografx
hurray came up with the idea for taking fenugreek as an oxytocin synergist. I was the one who connected your experiences with levitra to oxytocin since PDE-5 inhibitors increase the level of pituitary oxytocin release when taken before sexual stimulation. What's interesting to me is that laroux stated that the release of oxytocin and vasopressin can cause hyponatremia. Something that his girlfriend might have. What really interests me is the connection between all these phenomena and potential remedies.

I wonder if the hyponatremia theory is similar to Dr Waldinger's original hypothesis that during orgasm, a flu-like hormone is released, which the body then fights off?

If oxytocin is the culprit, maybe I can lower my Levitra intake and supplement with fenugreek. It's all fenugreek to me.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2145 on: 27/11/2008 02:27:20 »
POIS DIARY

A 2nd day mid-day nap helped, and now it's evening (I always do worse in the evening)and my "dried up fingertips" are back. But not bad at all.

I'm pleased with my progress.

This time, so far, doubling my Levitra clearly helped. Very little cognitive and social nonsense, mostly just a little tired.

I can live with that!

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Offline Finally

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2146 on: 27/11/2008 02:33:41 »
My girlfriend, who is 36, has been suffering from POIS for several years and I think we've finally found something that alleviates her symptoms and possibly is causing them.  Prior to the onset of POIS at age 34, she had never had issues with feeling lousy after orgasm, now she is basically bedridden for two days afterward.  All of her symptoms seem to be the same as the men who post on this forum.  She also has been complaining of severe back and shoulder pain (unrelated to sex) for about the same 2 year period.  She has tried all sorts of treatments for the back pain and none seem to work.  She also has the same POIS systems the day after after drinking ANY alchol... and I mean only 1 sip.  She doesn't get the typical hangover (headache, nausea) like most people, just severe POIS like symptoms.  She says it feels exactly the same.  I think it was this link that helped us to find out what was going on with her.

Yesterday we were just cuddling and both became aroused.  The phone rang and the mood passed... we wound up not having sex.  Even so, she began suffering from POIS systems shortly afterward.  Out of compassion for her and frustration for what was happening to her, I began researching the link between sexual arousal and hormone release.  In both men and women, I found that Oxytocin and Vasopressin are released during sexual arousal and peak their release during orgasm.  I further discovered that in some people, this release of Oxytocin and vasopressin can cause hyponatremia,(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyponatremia) which can result in the severe myalgiaic symptoms, fatigue and headache that she experiences.  The result of the hyponatremia is a low sodium electrolyte balance.  I gave her a small glass of water with 1/2 teaspoon of salt and she felt better within 5 minutes.  Has anyone else tried saltwater and felt better?

While we don't know the root cause of her sodium electrolyte imbalance, we have now tried the saltwater thing 3-4 times and in every case it has not only resolved her symptoms completely but made her feel fantastic.  Her back pain and joint pain even resolved.  Clearly she has to be careful about how much saltwater she ingests but the link between electrolyte imbalance and her POIS symptoms could not be ignored.  Has anyone else tried this treatment with success?

She has not had any alcohol since we discovered this treatment for her POIS symptoms.  We don't know if they are related but if anyone else has these "hangovers" that mirror POIS symptoms after just a tiny amount of alcohol, we'd be very interested to know.  Also, please let us know if the saltwater works for you.

I have taken salt after orgasm to limit the damage of POIS.  I usually use Sea Salt.  In the past I was able to get salt tablets at a pharmacy but last time I went the pharmacist told me to just"eat a bag of pretzels". More lack of respect.
Also her symptoms sound like mine.  Neck back and shoulder stiffness.  Also alcohol produces a similar effect.  Arousal will produce lesser symptoms Usually lasting less than a day.

I got blood tests results Taken by a rheumatologist in March(health care system here is insane) My Na(sodium)  and all others were in range although Nitrogen and Creatine were on the very low end.
« Last Edit: 27/11/2008 02:35:47 by Finally »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2147 on: 27/11/2008 02:40:37 »
VASOPRESSIN AND NOCTURIA

Does anyone else have overactive bladder and/or nocturia (excessive nighttime urination)?

Vasopressin is a controversial cure for it. After reading laroux, chewbacca and hurray's ideas, I wonder if there's another 3-way connection (BLADDER, POIS, VASOPRESSIN)?

Perhaps urinary problems are a tip-off to vasopression deficiency?

Wow, am I getting out of my league here! [;D]
« Last Edit: 27/11/2008 02:55:19 by demografx »

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Offline laroux

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2148 on: 27/11/2008 04:51:54 »
My girlfriend seems to have the opposite problem, she doesn't pee very often, especially during the night.  That's the hyponatremia thing... the body holds on to all the water but uses up the intracellular sodium. Apparently Oxytocin can severely exacerbate this problem to the point where the sodium that exists in fluid between cells is used up almost entirely.

Something else she told me that was interesting.... salt ingested by itself didn't help.  She had to dissolve it in water and drink the water to feel better. She feels better within minutes of drinking the saltwater.

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Offline laroux

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2149 on: 27/11/2008 05:28:40 »
Here's another Wiki that I would recommend reading.  Vasopressin is also released during arousal and orgasm and actually may be more the cause than Oxytocin for low blood serum sodium. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndrome_of_inappropriate_antidiuretic_hormone

Another thing I noticed is that you must be VERY careful if you attempt to correct hyponatremia by drinking saltwater.  You can harm yourself if you ingest too much. Probably best to limit it to half a teaspoon with a small glass of water at a time.