Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2700 on: 07/01/2009 17:31:14 »
In general, it could be the case that POIS is a compensation mechanism to an over-production.  If other agents (e.g. fenugreek, relora) could keep the post-orgasm peak-level within normal bounds, they could also prevent the reaction-compensation from occurring.

Guthrie--Thanks for your efforts to explain and graph your theory. In my case, I think that the The Diagram 2 graph
fits a description of what might be happening for me with a single orgasm. But the Diagram 3 graph with the "double"
orgasm does not describe my experience. After the first orgasm I have absolutely no willingness or energy for another.
Perhaps this reveals the difference between those of us who tend to be more cortisol high and those who are cortisol
deficient.
« Last Edit: 07/01/2009 17:32:48 by girlwind »

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2701 on: 07/01/2009 18:01:07 »
Girlwind & Steve--
I came of age in the 60's-- And did I--
"If you can't be with the one you love, love the one your with"
It absolutely shaped a lot of my psyche--
I don't think I ever "recovered"--I've had a great, long, loving marriage, but
sexuality (orgasm) never really linked up with "emotional connectedness"-- For me,
"emotional connectedness" arises out of a "spiritual bond" and "family". I also believe that orgasm is such a powerful, hard wired, primordial instinct geared for survival of our species that it is not surprising at all that it causes chemical imbalances in some with an accompanying variety/intensity of symptoms. Our cultural veneer sits atop 50,000 years -plus- of anthropology!

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2702 on: 07/01/2009 18:13:16 »
Girlwind, I totally agree with you about Cortisol. After reading hundreds of posts here in our forum, it seems that there are POIS sufferers who may be reacting to orgasm with high Cortisol levels and some with low levels. AND/OR some who may not be able to counterbalance their Cortisol levels with the necessary neurotransmitters to return to baseline/homeostasis. The second is where my thinking is since my POIS is nearly identical to my GAD, delineated only by the recovery time frame. When I recover from my present GAD episode (hopefully soon)and find myself "normal", I definitely plan to experiment with amino acid supplements and other herbal medications. By the way, I just added a mega B complex to my diet three days ago, and I feel a lot better. I hope this is for real!

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Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2703 on: 07/01/2009 18:17:18 »
Guthrie--Thanks for your efforts to explain and graph your theory. In my case, I think that the The Diagram 2 graph
fits a description of what might be happening for me with a single orgasm. But the Diagram 3 graph with the "double"
orgasm does not describe my experience. After the first orgasm I have absolutely no willingness or energy for another.
Perhaps this reveals the difference between those of us who tend to be more cortisol high and those who are cortisol
deficient.

Girlwind--while in the midst of POIS, I too lack willingness and energy for another orgasm.  That may be why my experience of last week was the first time that something like that had happened to me.  I guess the question is: if, trying to ignore or overcome the lack of energy, you did have a second orgasm, is there a possibility that the physiological response could mirror diagram 3?  

Perhaps that wouldn't happen (as your distinction between cortisol-high and cortisol-low indicates), but I think it is important to distinguish between subjective desire (or lack thereof) for initiating orgasm and the involuntary biochemical response once orgasm does occur.
« Last Edit: 07/01/2009 18:19:18 by Guthrie »

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Offline rock27

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2704 on: 07/01/2009 18:21:10 »
@ underwater:
I feel tension in my muscles as well. Also, normally I am a person who likes doing things and enjoying almost everything. In POIS I don't feel like doing anything, not enjoyin anything, I am just surviving (I have a strong mind), knowing that if I hang in for some days, it will be gone. IF you call that depression, I am in your league. Apart from the thirst I also pee a lot (in second phase of POIS), it's not diabetes I tested. Thanks for the neurotrans, might add them for testing.

My case started just after one year of orgasms. In that period I think I overdid it (many times a day because it was addictive).


@ Guthry
Thanks for them beautiful graphs!! It's a bit different indeed, I am glad I got you on a track!! It's a variation on a theme. I'll make some graphs of my theory too when I am able to, cos it makes things very clear.

I also think that fenugreek / relora /herbs could act as agents or security locks, just to make sure the culprit is not going up too much. After all, you don't get the shortage symptoms when taking these stuff. That's why it's most effective to take them before orgasm, so levels don't go up. It's probably much harder to get your levels down when you take these 'agents' after orgasm. It's like the saying: It's easier to prevent than to cure!

And thanks for pointing to the re-uniting site. When I look at the symptoms of excess dopamine, this might also be candidate for testing. However, I tested for prolactine 2 years ago maybe 8 hours after orgasm, and then I had very normal values, and it says in the text that dopamine and prolactine act counteractive. Maybe I should test much sooner after orgasm.

It also says here that cortisol and oxytocin are counteractive...


@demo
I get a bit scared when I read on the re-uniting site that high levels of cortisol can be toxic to brain cells. Made me think of Demo....and then made me think of my own brain.
« Last Edit: 07/01/2009 18:35:04 by rock27 »
POIS, fatigue, brain fog, can't find words, irritated, can't concentrate.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2705 on: 07/01/2009 18:41:30 »
All: I was talking to a very smart physician friend recently, about POIS.  He suggested taking a urine metanephrine test.  Sometimes "benign" tumors can cause cortisol, blood pressure, and other measures to be quite erratic.  Such tumors can also be responsible for the heats, etc., experienced by B_Jim and others.  A urine metanephrine test would help screen for this problem.  

Theory: Our neuroendocrine response to orgasm is being affected by such tumors.  I think this is quite possible for some of us. I seem to have extremely erratic cortisol levels, and my blood pressure is also erratic.  It's usually about 120/70, but sometimes when I've been tested, it's been 165/110.  The next day it's back to normal.  My blood sugar levels are also somewhat unusual, which could be explained by this theory.


Guthrie:

Interesting idea.  I think the third graph describes my situation most closely, although things are a little more complicated.  It may be interesting to compare the time-scales for "recovery" after subsequent orgasm, also.

In the last few weeks, here is what has been happening with me:
Feeling fine.  Within minutes of one orgasm, POIS symptoms will set in, about 90% of the time.  These are strictly mental symptoms: extreme agitation, a feeling that something isn't right, "brain fog" (light headednesses, disorientation, cognitively sluggish, ..), difficulty expressing thoughts into words, social anxiety, distress, inability to maintain attention, inability to relax (even if I take a tranquilizer, etc.), a feeling of heart irregularity (palpatations, thundering pulse, sometimes irregular beat).  These symptoms are especially obvious whenever I am confronted with a situation where I have to think quickly -- social interactions, tests, etc.  

So it takes about 2 minutes, maximum, to go from "normal" to whatever chemical state causes POIS symptoms.  Now, if I have a subsequent orgasm, there are three possibilities.  

1) My symptoms will get worse.  Basically the same symptoms, but with greater intensity.  (50% of the time)
2) My symptoms get slightly better.  Intensity of symptoms decreases, but POIS still quite unbearable. (20% of the time)
3) Symptoms completely alleviated. (30% of the time).

Each of these results is known to me, within 30 seconds to 5 minutes after orgasm.

Now, it sometimes takes me up to 7 orgasms to achieve result 3.  When this is the case, the "relief" usually only lasts for up to a day, after which my symptoms return, in full force.  Usually I can alleviate myself of them by waiting a day, and having one more orgasm.


If it takes me only 1-2 attempts to achieve result 3, the relief traditionally lasts until the next orgasm (days, weeks, month... however long it takes).  However, in the last few months, I have been getting a new set of milder symptoms, following this relief.  I am completely better for the day of the alleviating orgasm, but the next day, in the morning, I start to feel this level of "background" stress.  No brain fog, necessarily, but anxiety.  An inability to relax.  Sometimes mild pressure in prostate.  It usually gets most intense about 2 hours after waking up, and then slowly decreases intensity, until I am feeling good in the late evening.  This then repeats, for about 3 days, after which I am feeling consistently fine.  Since beta blockers have mildly helped with this second set of symptoms, and cortisol levels tend to decrease significantly in the evening, I suspect this is partly a cortisol problem.

A lot of information here! One final note.  If I have a POIS orgasm in the morning, I find that a subsequent orgasm is more likely to alleviate my symptoms if I wait for 10 hrs+, than if I have one immediately after.
« Last Edit: 07/01/2009 18:45:11 by Counterpoints »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2706 on: 07/01/2009 18:51:22 »
@demo
I get a bit scared when I read on the re-uniting site that high levels of cortisol can be toxic to brain cells. Made me think of Demo....and then made me think of my own brain.

High cortisol levels can damage brain cells in the hypothalamus and hippocampus.   I don't think it would cause an empty sellum... 
Besides, we don't know whether Demo has high cortisol.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2707 on: 07/01/2009 20:37:42 »
It was through nocturnal emissions I realized that I was having physical loss (semen) with absolutely no physical contact (manual, oral, penile/vaginal sexuality). This concretized, for me, the connection between the brain and semen. While some people experience a greater sense of connectedness, warmth, emotional safety and physical closeness upon orgasm, I am, if I am honest with myself, not one of them. This is why the Hindu-esque or Taoist-esque expositions around semen retention always, sort of, appealed to me, but even that explanation was insufficient. While I don't experience 'flu-like symptoms' there is an 'allergic' quality, upon orgasm, extremely similar, identical actually, to what the alcoholics describe in their literature as 'hangovers'. The 'allergy' I feel on the one extreme, compared to the magic I feel from 'semen retention' make this a slam dunk, for me.

Steve, FWIW, as I mentioned on earlier posts, I chased the Taoist theories and methods for years to no avail. Girlwind has too (I shouldn't speak for her, but I do recall a couple posts she made to that effect).

One of my POIS symptoms is that my fingertips dry up, they get numb, sometimes they feel like they're on fire, and I actually get dermatitis there. And for unknown reason(s), my POIS-affected fingertips drive me crazy. Probably because they're a barometer of my overall POIS state, i.e., the worse/better the fingertips, the worse/better the POIS.

Last few days, (this happens all the time, like clockwork) I notice similar fingertips-symptoms again...but for the opposite reason! That is, it's now 5 weeks since release, so it's the body reminding me that I "need" one. But with all the recent chastity talk reminding me that it's the only current, "surefire" cure, I think I'll try to hold out a little longer.

btw, you were asking about partners, I'm married for over 30 years. POIS is discussed, but rarely. I think it's best that way, because she leans to "isn't it psychological?". For a long time, because of my early religious teachings about sex ("it's dirty") I believed that POIS is psychological/psychosomatic, but no longer do, even though it may have started that way.
« Last Edit: 07/01/2009 23:11:28 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2708 on: 07/01/2009 20:57:33 »
@demo
I get a bit scared when I read on the re-uniting site that high levels of cortisol can be toxic to brain cells. Made me think of Demo....and then made me think of my own brain.

High cortisol levels can damage brain cells in the hypothalamus and hippocampus.   I don't think it would cause an empty sellum... 
Besides, we don't know whether Demo has high cortisol.

CP, thanks for clarifying that, I was a bit confused myself about that post.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2709 on: 07/01/2009 21:27:55 »
Steve, FWIW, as I mentioned on earlier posts, I chased the Taoist theories and methods for years to no avail. Girlwind has too
(I shouldn't speak for her, but I do recall a couple posts she made to that effect).

I agree with the Taoist idea of refraining from orgasm, though I was never very successful at the Mantak Chia technique
of "aborted orgasm."
Just to clarify the difference. Or maybe I just did the Mantak Chia method wrong... Either way the aborted
orgasm technique didn't work for me, but refraining from orgasm is something I'm learning to excel at.  Except of course, when my
dreams interfere with that agenda.
« Last Edit: 07/01/2009 21:31:22 by girlwind »

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2710 on: 07/01/2009 21:31:39 »
I got sunrider product alpha 20c what a reap of but i need to find out whether it works or not. the ingredients according to box are;
nandina flower(chinese white flower), paris polyphylia(paris herb)root, scutellaria baicalensis (scutellaria herb)root; dandelion root; imperata root


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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2711 on: 07/01/2009 21:47:00 »
But with all the recent chastity talk reminding me that it's the only current, "surefire" cure, I think I'll try to hold out a little longer.

I wish there were another 'surefire' cure, but I don't see one at the moment and I want to be well the next couple of days as I have an important show to do with some difficult music that I want to be 'available ' for. I think Henri de Balzac might have been right, perhaps.

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2712 on: 07/01/2009 21:53:21 »

but refraining from orgasm is something I'm learning to excel at. 

Me, too...my partner and I committed to that in therapy, last week, as a way of life, one day at a time, and that's a major victory for me. The surrendering of looking for a cure, accepting my limits and being grateful for what I do have. I'm really happy with that...

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2713 on: 07/01/2009 23:28:22 »
I don't think going to great lengths to avoid orgasm is the best option for all of us.  I was corresponding to the MD PhD researcher I've mentioned, who is studying POIS, and has personally had at least 4-6 POIS sufferers as patients.  He said he asked one patient to try having one orgasm/day for two weeks.  At the end of the two weeks, he reported being 80% better. 

Just to counter balance some of the recent posts.

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2714 on: 08/01/2009 05:17:37 »
This is a random post amist good discussion.  But I want to know if anyone here is from Colorado like I.  It would be beneficial and more convincing for two suffers to work with the same doctor.  Many Docs are hesitant to take time studying one case of an unknown disease.  My doc actually suggested this!

Any CO folks here?

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2715 on: 08/01/2009 05:54:18 »
I don't think going to great lengths to avoid orgasm is the best option for all of us.  I was corresponding to the MD PhD researcher I've mentioned, who is studying POIS, and has personally had at least 4-6 POIS sufferers as patients.  He said he asked one patient to try having one orgasm/day for two weeks.  At the end of the two weeks, he reported being 80% better. 

Just to counter balance some of the recent posts.


Counterpoints,
 
I don't think anyone knows what's best for all of us and my sense is that what works for one of us may not work for others. Some folks seem to find Relora working, some Fenugreek, some multiple orgasms and some no orgasms. My doctor initially  suggested daily ejaculation. That was very bad advice , for me, and he later recanted.   

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2716 on: 08/01/2009 08:31:22 »
Guys and gal,

I need to report on the POIS front...absolutely no symptoms. Following an idea I got from this blogsite, I worked out 1 1/2 hours today and it really helped. I also talked, at a group level of about 20 folks about POIS, having worked on it for 18 years, come this May, and committing, after a 20 month experiment, to surrendering orgasmic sexuality. I was shocked at the  joylessness in the room, but I'm getting more used to that response the last 10 days. I can't find anyone who wants to celebrate my victory over my being slaughtered for 18 years, day after day, year after year by POIS...So, I'm going to celebrate myself. What I did tonight was to play Hendrix songs for 2 hours. I love his music and it was a great physical joy to be able to do something creative instead of being hung over with POIS. Tomorrow, I'm going to celebrate by buying myself some new shoes.
I can teach myself to have the courage to celebrate.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2717 on: 08/01/2009 15:47:09 »
Guys and gal,

I also talked, at a group level of about 20 folks about POIS, having worked on it for 18 years, come this May, and committing, after a 20 month experiment, to surrendering orgasmic sexuality. I was shocked at the  joylessness in the room, but I'm getting more used to that response the last 10 days. I can't find anyone who wants to celebrate my victory over my being slaughtered for 18 years, day after day, year after year by POIS...So, I'm going to celebrate myself. What I did tonight was to play Hendrix songs for 2 hours. I love his music and it was a great physical joy to be able to do something creative instead of being hung over with POIS. Tomorrow, I'm going to celebrate by buying myself some new shoes.  I can teach myself to have the courage to celebrate.

I think the "joylessness" of others' reactions might be some version of fear. Health issues with a baffling tinge to them (like POIS
and CFS) sometimes freak people out, in ways that they aren't even aware of. I'm happy to hear that you are celebrating in spite
of that. Hallelujah to creativity! Music and painting have been my saving grace as well. And new shoes can be a good thing too.  [:)]
« Last Edit: 08/01/2009 22:16:30 by girlwind »

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2718 on: 08/01/2009 16:37:15 »
Exercise and playing music have always helped me. When I had a particularly bad period back in 97/98, I wrote quite a bit of music (using guitar), and it helped me relax immensely. I even had a sound studio for awhile, and making music can be quite therapeutic. "Music Therapy" is a very interesting subject; offered as majors in many colleges.
Abstinence has always been my most effective strategy for succor. But I also think that solutions to POIS will continue to slowly emerge, little by little, until some major breakthroughs are realized---soon--very soon--

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2719 on: 08/01/2009 17:54:32 »
I don't think going to great lengths to avoid orgasm is the best option for all of us.  I was corresponding to the MD PhD researcher
I've mentioned, who is studying POIS, and has personally had at least 4-6 POIS sufferers as patients.  He said he asked one patient
to try having one orgasm/day for two weeks.  At the end of the two weeks, he reported being 80% better. 

Just to counter balance some of the recent posts.


Counterpoints,
 
I don't think anyone knows what's best for all of us and my sense is that what works for one of us may not work for others. Some folks seem to find Relora working, some Fenugreek, some multiple orgasms and some no orgasms. My doctor initially  suggested daily ejaculation. That was very bad advice , for me, and he later recanted.   

There are definitely proving to be multiple stop gap "remedies" for our multiple orgasm issues. Multiple puns intended.  [::)] [;D]
I think it's great that we have so many variations on the theme---so many bright people who are willing to risk talking about POIS
and experimenting on themselves with whatever they feel will work best for them. Leaving the door open for personal investigation
and continued experimentation is going to serve everybody's interest in the long run.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2720 on: 08/01/2009 18:13:27 »
2002 POIS Research Study

The first and only study on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. David Schweitzer, MD.

If anyone wants a copy (PDF), send "Pyropeach" a Private Message with your email address and he'll send you back the PDF.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around the recipient's name, e.g., "pyropeach".

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2721 on: 08/01/2009 18:47:53 »
There are definitely proving to be multiple stop gap "remedies" for our multiple orgasm issues. Multiple puns intended.  [::)] [;D]
I think it's great that we have so many variations on the theme---so many bright people who are willing to risk talking about POIS and experimenting on themselves with whatever they feel will work best for them. Leaving the door open for personal investigation and continued experimentation is going to serve everybody's interest in the long run.

Girlwind, that's a beautiful description of the spirit, intent and hope of this forum!
« Last Edit: 08/01/2009 19:05:59 by demografx »

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2722 on: 08/01/2009 19:00:36 »
Thanks for the support gang,

Today I'm grateful that I don't feel the:

pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization,
depression,
self pity,
numbness,
disconnection,
grief,
isolation,
or despair,

associated with POIS.

It's a new day and I plan to look at it differently...

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2723 on: 09/01/2009 01:16:08 »
This is a random post amist good discussion.  But I want to know if anyone here is from Colorado like I.  It would be beneficial and more convincing for two suffers to work with the same doctor.  Many Docs are hesitant to take time studying one case of an unknown disease.  My doc actually suggested this!

Any CO folks here?

LJ, I could be dead wrong, but is it possible that your doctor is just not real cooperative or friendly to this malady? Many just don't want to be bothered. Or feel at bottom that POIS is really psychosomatic. I'm working with an endo right now who simply seems interested. Of course, I may just be lucky, too. As was suggested here, giving my endo a copy of Dr. Waldinger's paper seemed to help establish an air of medical credibility.
« Last Edit: 09/01/2009 04:38:08 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2724 on: 09/01/2009 04:35:51 »
Steve, FWIW, as I mentioned on earlier posts, I chased the Taoist theories and methods for years to no avail. Girlwind has too
(I shouldn't speak for her, but I do recall a couple posts she made to that effect).

I agree with the Taoist idea of refraining from orgasm, though I was never very successful at the Mantak Chia technique
of "aborted orgasm."
Just to clarify the difference. Or maybe I just did the Mantak Chia method wrong... Either way the aborted
orgasm technique didn't work for me, but refraining from orgasm is something I'm learning to excel at.  Except of course, when my
dreams interfere with that agenda.

Yes, thank you for clarifying that, Girlwind. Mantak Chia's Taoist-based male-sexuality-version of "orgasm without ejaculation" techniques are what I strenuously learned and successfully executed, but they didn't work for me. After what I learned from so many male POIS sufferers here, I don't think his techniques can work for men, generally, since (1) POIS is probably not simply a reaction to semen loss and (2) semen still leaves the body, eventually, it only gets diverted temporarily to the bladder. Wish I could get my $49.99 back for his books [:)]

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2725 on: 09/01/2009 10:31:55 »
but refraining from orgasm is something I'm learning to excel at. 
Yes, thank you for clarifying that, Girlwind. Mantak Chia's Taoist-based male-sexuality-version of "orgasm without ejaculation" techniques are what I strenuously learned and successfully executed, but they didn't work for me since  POIS is probably not simply a reaction to semen loss
[/quote]

Demo/Girlwind,

I'm not sure what is being delineated here, but curious to know....

 "but refraining from orgasm is something I'm learning to excel at."... I understand. For the last two days, at my request my partner and I have refrained from not only genital contact, but also from potentially arousing hugging and kissing, because I really wanted to be as present energetically tonight at a show I did, and I wanted to use all my energy for the performance. It worked very well and I was at the best I could be, all other conditions being the same.

POIS, for me, may not be not be about seminal loss, but it does happens when I lose semen...and four stages before. I rolled back two of the stages the last two days and was pleasantly rewarded...

I'm no saint, and after the show I made love with my partner, non-orgasmically, for three hours....and I'm okay. So, "refraining from orgasm is something I'm learning to excel at," is something I understand and works for me, too.

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2726 on: 09/01/2009 10:37:07 »
Exercise and playing music have always helped me. When I had a particularly bad period back in 97/98, I wrote quite a bit of music (using guitar), and it helped me relax immensely. I even had a sound studio for awhile, and making music can be quite therapeutic.
Abstinence has always been my most effective strategy for succor.
I think the "joylessness" of others' reactions might be some version of fear. Health issues with a baffling tinge to them (like POIS
and CFS) sometimes freak people out, in ways that they aren't even aware of. I'm happy to hear that you are celebrating in spite
of that. Hallelujah to creativity! Music and painting have been my saving grace as well. And new shoes can be a good thing too.  [:)]

Girlwind/Underwater,

Thanks for the support,

Steve

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2727 on: 09/01/2009 21:53:36 »
I am amazed at how many of us are musically inclined. On a previous post it was noticed that many of us played instruments. Demo was one, I forget the rest...now SteveD as well. What do you think, strange coincidence?

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2728 on: 09/01/2009 22:14:03 »
I am amazed at how many of us are musically inclined. On a previous post it was noticed that many of us played instruments. Demo was
one, I forget the rest...now SteveD as well. What do you think, strange coincidence?

Yes, we have A LOT of MUSICALLY INCLINED people here. We've brought this up before on the forum.
I think the list includes: Demo, SteveD, Martin88, Counterpoints, Underwater and me. There might be
more. I think we kidded about starting a band at one point, and Demo even created a set list.
« Last Edit: 09/01/2009 22:15:57 by girlwind »

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2729 on: 10/01/2009 00:20:41 »
OK.  Nothing left to do then start a band.

P.rofessional O.rchestrated I.nstrument S.ymphony
Starring:

Demographx -
Girlwind -
SteveD -
Martin88 -
Counterpoints -
Underwater -
LimeJuice - on the Bass or Cello.

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2730 on: 10/01/2009 02:14:31 »
OK.  Nothing left to do then start a band.

P.rofessional O.rchestrated I.nstrument S.ymphony
Starring:


How about "The Too hot for Sex" band? ...Catchy

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2731 on: 10/01/2009 04:00:03 »
It seems that FenuGreek and Maca which I take 3x/day along with Garden of life Restore(FYI Ultra also works ) has the greatest effect on the CFS/Fibromyalgia symptoms. 
Yohimbe and Horney goat weed seem to be more of a secondary help in the formula.  Works good taken with fruit juice(berries Pomegranite etc)   
I also take about 50mg. od DHEA.  When I took it alone there wasn't a great effect. 

I haven't had an orgasm in 2 months. The physical desire goes down as long as there isn't too much stress to deal with.  Kind of keeping my mind on other things as much as possible.  Having good results and progress keeps positive mental energy.   
I took Maca a long time ago and there was no improvement.(maybe a bad brand..). You're able to stay 2 months without orgasm while taking horny goat, it's not what is written about this plant ! As I said before I'll try fenugreek.

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2732 on: 10/01/2009 07:02:10 »
I've been noticing strangeness in my life as I transition to post-looking-for-a-solution-to-POIS. I'm feeling quite susceptible and vulnerable to some pleasant, but self destructive, dark urges I have. I think that's because my guard is down. I found POIS so difficult to solve that it kept other less destructive things at bay while I was working on it. I wasn't expecting that, but it makes sense to me.

Also, not having to debate in my head whether to have an orgasm or not on a moment-per-moment-during- the-event basis frees me to notice some more subtle things. When I am being non-orgasmically sexual I get jolts of neurochemicals that are hypnotic and intoxicating, almost opiate quality alterations. These are extremely physically pleasurable. That's the good news. The bad news is that there is a residual, damping, if not debilitating effect. Certainly the extreme mental clarity and dexterousness are virtually annihilated....and I ain't near as funny! 

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2733 on: 10/01/2009 07:15:46 »
I think Henri [Honoré] de Balzac might have been right, perhaps.

"The mother's heart is the child's schoolroom," "A lover always thinks of his mistress first and himself second; with a husband it runs the other way," "The more one judges, the less one loves." ???

(Just giving you a hard time, Steve [;D])
« Last Edit: 10/01/2009 07:20:56 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2734 on: 10/01/2009 07:25:52 »
I've been noticing strangeness in my life as I transition to post-looking-for-a-solution-to-POIS. I'm feeling quite susceptible and vulnerable to some pleasant, but self destructive, dark urges I have. I think that's because my guard is down. I found POIS so difficult to solve that it kept other less destructive things at bay while I was working on it. I wasn't expecting that, but it makes sense to me.

Also, not having to debate in my head whether to have an orgasm or not on a moment-per-moment-during- the-event basis frees me to notice some more subtle things. When I am being non-orgasmically sexual I get jolts of neurochemicals that are hypnotic and intoxicating, almost opiate quality alterations. These are extremely physically pleasurable. That's the good news. The bad news is that there is a residual, damping, if not debilitating effect. Certainly the extreme mental clarity and dexterousness are virtually annihilated....and I ain't near as funny! 

Steve, forgive me for being presumptuous, but you sound just like I did when I thought I had POIS solved.

A CRASHING disappointment arrived in the form of unwanted release.

I honestly wish you the best. I would just hate to see the same thing happen!

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2735 on: 10/01/2009 07:42:56 »
I think Henri [Honoré] de Balzac might have been right, perhaps.

"The mother's heart is the child's schoolroom," "A lover always thinks of his mistress first and himself second; with a husband it runs the other way," "The more one judges, the less one loves." ???

(Just giving you a hard time, Steve [;D])



I don't know that quote,
Balzac is quoted as saying after making love to his beloved "There goes another novel". Implying of course that he could be sexual or write a book, but he could not do both with the same energy.
I'm not in that league when it comes to talent, but I do know that I felt enthusiasm for my work, which in part was prepping to teach Voodoo Chile (Slight Return) tomorrow and hunting for a gig in a difficult district here in town. It's little stuff, but it's meaningful to me.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2736 on: 10/01/2009 07:47:54 »
I think we kidded about starting a band at one point, and Demo even created a set list.

Quote from: martin88 on 27/09/2008 00:51:42
Four musicians, we're not so far to create the pois band!

Quote from: demografx on 27/09/2008
POIS BAND, that's hilarious, Martin! I can just see it now, songs like "I'm So Tired" (actual Beatles song) or "I Love You But Let's Not Sleep Together" [;D]

More POIS songs?:
So Tired - Ozzy Osbourne
Tired Of Being Alone - Al Green
Tired Of Being Blonde - Carly Simon
Tired of England - Dirty Pretty Things
Tired Of Sex - Weezer
Tired Of Waiting For You - The Kinks
Tired Of You - Foo Fighters

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2737 on: 10/01/2009 07:51:16 »
...prepping to teach Voodoo Chile (Slight Return) tomorrow and hunting for a gig in a difficult district here in town. It's little stuff, but it's meaningful to me.

Hardly sounds like "little stuff"!

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2738 on: 10/01/2009 07:53:25 »

Steve, forgive me for being presumptuous, but you sound just like I did when I thought I had POIS solved.

A CRASHING disappointment arrived in the form of unwanted release.

I honestly wish you the best. I would just hate to see the same thing happen!

A crashing disappointment would be very, very easy to engage by simply going over the line and being orgasmic. I like Girlwind's thought about that though

Quote from: girlwind on 07/01/2009 21:27:55
"but refraining from orgasm is something I'm learning to excel at"

...but, hey if I knew everything I wouldn't be here now would I?

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2739 on: 10/01/2009 08:05:19 »
...prepping to teach Voodoo Chile (Slight Return) tomorrow and hunting for a gig in a difficult district here in town. It's little stuff, but it's meaningful to me.

Hardly sounds like "little stuff"!

You know it's getting human and 'normal' for me. I have had to employ 'divine' tools to help myself solve a totally incomprehensible illness, for me, including having a 96 year old Catholic, virgin, monk be my primary mentor six days a week, for 10 years. I really liked the purity of aspiring to 'holiness' so this gray area of non-orgasmic sexuality is like wearing a shirt that's brand new. You know it's going to fit, it just feels too tight out of the box ...and you think you might look like an idiot in it.

PS Another POIS band tune "Let's don't do it in the road" , or less rudely "Why can't we be friends?"

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2740 on: 10/01/2009 08:09:22 »
I think we orgasm-program our bodies from past behavior, much like our body clock that expects daylight at a certain time period and gets thrown for a loop when we travel = jet lag.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2741 on: 10/01/2009 08:11:49 »
Another POIS band tune "Let's don't do it in the road" , or less rudely "Why can't we be friends?"

 [;D] [;D]

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2742 on: 10/01/2009 08:27:46 »
In the interest of promoting balance on the subject of abstinence:

"Modern research on abstinence
Since 1957, no ill effects have been shown to be associated with frequent sexual activity, and indeed many studies have demonstrated that it facilitates substantial health benefits. One study suggests that frequent ejaculation may lead to a lower risk of prostate cancer.[2] There have been numerous studies indicating that excessive repression of the sexual instinct leads to an increase in the overall level of aggression in a given society. For example, psychologist J.M. Prescott, in a cross-cultural investigation published in The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists (1975), found that societies forbidding premarital sex are plagued by acts of rage, and tend to have higher rates of crime and violence. Prescott also found a link between sexual repression and aggression, insensitivity, criminal behaviour, and a greater likelihood of killing and torturing enemies.

In 1997, Forbes Magazine reported on "one of the most credible studies correlating overall health with sexual frequency". Queens University in Belfast tracked the mortality of about 1,000 middle-aged men over the course of a decade. The study, published in 1997 in the British Medical Journal found that "men who reported the highest frequency of orgasm enjoyed a death rate half that of the laggards"; that is to say, those that engaged in sex more frequently enjoyed longer lives. The report also cited other studies to show that having sex even a few times a week may be associated with: improved sense of smell; reduced risk of heart disease; weight loss and overall fitness; reduced depression (in women); the relief or lessening of pain; less frequent colds and flu; better bladder control; better teeth; and improved prostate function. The report cited a study published by the British Journal of Urology International which indicated that men in their 20s can reduce by a third their chance of getting prostate cancer by ejaculating more than five times a week."

Above excerpted from wikipedia
« Last Edit: 10/01/2009 09:17:43 by demografx »

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2743 on: 10/01/2009 08:45:18 »
I think we orgasm-program our bodies from past behavior, much like our body clock that expects daylight at a certain time period and gets thrown for a loop when we travel = jet lag.

That's an interesting thought. If that were true then it would seem, to me, that we could train our bodies, to the degree that it is sanely possible to 'cycle down' and live reasonably happy, contented, satisfied lives without orgasm. Around sanity, I know men who clam to be responsible for their nocturnal emission. I think that there are things I can do to influence the likelihood that I can decrease the possibility of nocturnal emission, like not fantasizing about being sexual with previous partners or imagining being sexual with women who I haven't been sexual with. I find that that choice dramatically increases the probability of NE's. Also, objectifying women or 'body parting'. Finally, 'intriguing' with women, which , for me , means sexualizing conversations with women through the use of double entendre, sexual inuenndo or sexualized humor. All that stuff just loads my central nervous system up with huge amounts of sexual energy , just looking for a place to release. Fortunately, EM's, for me, are infrequent and have nowhere near the same impact as an act of chosen orgasmic sexuality , for me. I know , clearly , that that is not the experience of a number of people on our beloved blog site,and that there is terrible suffering due to EM's. But major or minor impact, I want to reduce the disease as much as sanely, humanely possible,so I'm willing to, however imperfectly, surrender those three things.

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2744 on: 10/01/2009 08:50:44 »
In the interest of promoting balance on the subject of abstinence:

"Modern research on abstinence
Since 1957, no ill effects have been shown to be associated with frequent sexual activity, and indeed many studies have demonstrated that it facilitates substantial health benefits. One study suggests that frequent ejaculation may lead to a lower risk of prostate cancer.[2] There have been numerous studies indicating that excessive repression of the sexual instinct leads to an increase in the overall level of aggression in a given society. For example, psychologist J.M. Prescott, in a cross-cultural investigation published in The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists (1975), found that societies forbidding premarital sex are plagued by acts of rage, and tend to have higher rates of crime and violence. Prescott also found a link between sexual repression and aggression, insensitivity, criminal behaviour, and a greater likelihood of killing and torturing enemies.

In 1997, Forbes Magazine reported on "one of the most credible studies correlating overall health with sexual frequency". Queens University in Belfast tracked the mortality of about 1,000 middle-aged men over the course of a decade. The study, published in 1997 in the British Medical Journal found that "men who reported the highest frequency of orgasm enjoyed a death rate half that of the laggards"; that is to say, those that engaged in sex more frequently enjoyed longer lives. The report also cited other studies to show that having sex even a few times a week may be associated with: improved sense of smell; reduced risk of heart disease; weight loss and overall fitness; reduced depression (in women); the relief or lessening of pain; less frequent colds and flu; better bladder control; better teeth; and improved prostate function. The report cited a study published by the British Journal of Urology International which indicated that men in their 20s can reduce by a third their chance of getting prostate cancer by ejaculating more than five times a week."

Above from wikipedia



LOL...When my partner and I began to go to couple therapy two months ago, he asked me "Steve, what do you want from therapy" I said "I want to be able to come five times a day and maintain the benefits of chastity!" ...Enough of this chastity talk. Nothing engenders hate, shame and fear like this topic...

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2745 on: 10/01/2009 09:01:56 »
Enough of this chastity talk.

So far, Steve, this is the only thing that you have said that I strongly disagree with. Abstinence/chastity is a crucial subject for POIS. It is even a key point in Dr. Waldinger's paper.
« Last Edit: 10/01/2009 09:22:31 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2746 on: 10/01/2009 09:05:54 »
...it would seem, to me, that we could train our bodies, to the degree that it is sanely possible to 'cycle down' and live reasonably happy, contented, satisfied lives without orgasm.

I moderately disagree. [:)]
« Last Edit: 10/01/2009 09:19:45 by demografx »

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2747 on: 10/01/2009 09:34:44 »
Enough of this chastity talk.

So far, Steve, this is the only thing that you have said that I strongly disagree with. Abstinence/chastity is a crucial subject for POIS. It is even a key point in Dr. Waldinger's paper.

There is a prayer that makes me laugh and that I like a lot. It goes "God, give me wisdom, but not so much wisdom I end up with no friends"... LOL [;D]

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2748 on: 10/01/2009 09:37:41 »
...it would seem, to me, that we could train our bodies, to the degree that it is sanely possible to 'cycle down' and live reasonably happy, contented, satisfied lives without orgasm.

I moderately disagree. [:)]

PS When you get to 1000 posts will you get to be Jesus Member? ...Just funnin' ya

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2749 on: 10/01/2009 10:48:11 »

When you get to 1000 posts will you get to be Jesus Member? ...Just funnin' ya


" Jesus Member Funnin' " ?

OK, I'll ignore that, although others here might not wish to.
« Last Edit: 10/01/2009 10:55:42 by demografx »