[underwater]

Counterpoints--
Good luck with your new physician's focus on the adrenal glands. It is great that he is an academic (not stuck in any particular mind set). Perhaps if we can find any "early (broken?) triggers", they may reside here.  My POIS symptoms - with particular focus on "recovery time frame" - expanded from 1-2 days in late 80s, 2-3 in mid 90's to what it is now. For me (and I may be totally wrong), the extent of nervous system (adrenal?) debilitation seems to be connected to my POIS episode. The years of suffering must have taken their collective toll. Could this accumulated "stress" have contributed to this time frame expansion? What is baffling is that some of us appear to have symptoms that are on the opposite ends of the spectrum, if there is a spectrum. Some are just totally wiped out and seriously, cognitively impaired. I'm a bit amped up and depressed, and more irritable than cognitively impaired. What is the history of your "recovery time frame"? Or is this even relevant in your case?

[demografx]

There is hope!

My endocrinologist liked the article from The New York Times! []

[demografx]

Forum tech disruptions

Everyone is frustrated, I've written complaints. AGAIN!

For now, hitting the "Refresh" button is all I can suggest! []

[demografx]

It also wouldn't hurt to hear the sexual psychotherapist out. He or she might have some really good advice.

I agree. A sexual psychotherapist whom I contacted in 2002 didn't have an answer for POIS but 1) connected me to Dr. Waldinger and his paper when it came out. A major breakthrough for me: I now had a malady with a name that I could search that eventually led me to this forum, and 2) referred me to another sexual psychotherapist in Czechoslovakia who strongly believed in a POIS-testosterone connection, which I tested and continue to learn more about and in fact is my current big hope for some relief, which I have already seen in the form of positive mood change and 3) was able to assist Counterpoints in a small way with a potential forum researcher. So yes, they can help!

[demografx]

B_Jim? Counterpoints? Others?

Lately, I've been wondering (don't ask me why though):

Is our mission as difficult as finding a cure for the common cold?

[demografx]

   
We cross the 200 pois cases limit. Intersting dark circles eyes symptom . I will look this tommorow.

Terrific!

Counterpoints wrote recently that there are about 100 "unique" POIS cases. Why do we have so much duplication?

[girlwind]

For me (and I may be totally wrong), the extent of nervous system (adrenal?) debilitation seems to be connected to my POIS episode. The years
of suffering must have taken their collective toll. Could this accumulated "stress" have contributed to this time frame expansion? What is baffling
is that some of us appear to have symptoms that are on the opposite ends of the spectrum, if there is a spectrum. Some are just totally wiped out
and seriously, cognitively impaired.  I'm a bit amped up and depressed, and more irritable than cognitively impaired.

Underwater--In my case, I feel both amped up and exhausted at the same time. In fact, the more tired I am, the more restless I will
feel. This is noticable with both my worst POIS episodes and with my worst CFS days. It feels like driving with one foot on the gas and
one on the brakes, and getting nowhere. And yes, I think the ongoing stress (for me of chronic ill health) had a huge impact on both
my adrenals, and my nervous system, and my thyroid as well. In addition, I think it programmed me to feel this was "normal"--to be
so out of whack (buzzed up and exhausted at the same time). THis is why I deliberately stick to good "adrenal habits:" regular meals
and regular sleep--with an early bed time, and... hardest of all NO overdoing or compulsive activity. It can be very challenging, but
whenever I push myself, I pay for it. So I am learning how to be MODERATE. I think that was one of the inscriptions at Delphi, in addi-
tion to "Know Thyself"---"Nothing In Excess." A hard thing for modern westerners to embrace.

[Counterpoints]

   
We cross the 200 pois cases limit. Intersting dark circles eyes symptom . I will look this tommorow.

Terrific!

Counterpoints wrote recently that there are about 100 "unique" POIS cases. Why do we have so much duplication?

I said about 100 cases for this specific forum.  I based that off of this: http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

I think B_Jim is including other cases of POIS found on the internet, in the 200 figure.  This accounts for the discrepancy.

[underwater]

There is hope!

My endocrinologist liked the article from The New York Times! []

Demo---
For me, I always have SSRI therapy in my back pocket as a last resort. This was my last suggestion to my psychiatrist six weeks ago. But I will avoid it at all costs. Recovery time frame (of POIS) is very important in my opinion. Preventing reuptake of Serotonin may help in fast recovery cases mentioned in the article. I'm not sure in protracted ones (2-4 days). I am much more cautious than the doctor when he states, "I would exploit the usually undesirable side effects of the SSRI for possible therapeutic effects."
It would be great if SSRI's helped anyone, I would jump for joy. But I would also be very saddened if, after weeks of waiting for "steady state", it caused added misery.
Having read hundreds of posts, I seem to recall that many contributors have tried SSRI's in the past (including me). But as I read them, many seem (including me) to have other conditions too. But yet as I write this, I'm not sure. POIS could be a multi-headed monster,the actual cause of other problems. Here's something I haven't stated: If I cure my GAD, I'm sure my POIS would diminish, no doubt. If I cured POIS, I'm sure my GAD would disappear. Yet I'm terrified to try an SSRI (again), for side effects scare the hell out of me.[I took Zoloft in 95', but it seemed to do nothing because I was taking it with a potent benzo,and I stopped the SSRI] But as I told my psychiatrist, it is a last resort, and I mean last. However I would feel like a complete moron if I try it down the road and it works! Maybe my GAD, OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) and my POIS is just one, connected condition arising out of the physical fluke of orgasm, unrecognized and inconsequential as a teenager, but manifesting itself and growing to a disturbing disability during the course of a lifetime. Thanks for suggesting the article. I'll think good and hard about my SSRI option. What a  problem! But we will be happy when it is weakened and ultimately rendered harmless. But SSRI's are powerful and require careful, medical management.

[Counterpoints]

B_Jim? Counterpoints? Others?

Lately, I've been wondering (don't ask me why though):

Is our mission as difficult as finding a cure for the common cold?

Our mission may be more analogous to preventing a cold, rather than curing it.  Some abnormal process is triggered by orgasm.  Hopefully we can alter this process in some way so that we feel better.  It's hard for me to speculate though, without more data and studies.  Interesting analogy.

[Counterpoints]

Thanks for the good wishes with the endocrinologist. 

[underwater]

Girlwind---
Thanks for your response--
I'm a bit frustrated as I wrote a question and a post to you that took over 20 minutes in its composition, and then it disappeared---------------------------
Oh Well-----------I generally operate by flow of consciousness, and I'll never be able to retrieve it, because I am not concrete sequential, I'm right hemisphere chaos.
You mentioned Delphi; I sailed on a boat called the Delphi in 1973 in the Gulf of California. It almost capsized! I survived, but I still don't know myself. However I remember an orgasm then and I was POIS free.

[Counterpoints]

Could this accumulated "stress" have contributed to this time frame expansion? What is baffling is that some of us appear to have symptoms that are on the opposite ends of the spectrum, if there is a spectrum. Some are just totally wiped out and seriously, cognitively impaired. I'm a bit amped up and depressed, and more irritable than cognitively impaired. What is the history of your "recovery time frame"? Or is this even relevant in your case?

Thanks underwater.   It's hard for me to judge whether, on the whole, recovery time has gotten better or worse.  I've changed my habits so much over the years, and the severity of my symptoms have also changed very much in this time.  I could first orgasm at 13.5, and I first connected the symptoms to orgasm at about 14.5.  (I believe symptoms started at about 14).  When I made the connection, I immediately stopped masturbating.  For the next year, my symptoms followed a pattern.  NE.  1 day later I would feel normal again.  2 days later I would have another NE.

This cycle broke, and changed many times.  At my worst, the symptoms have taken a week to get better. (About 3 years ago).  At best, symptoms were mild, and gone within minutes, 90% of the time (about 1 year ago). 

As far as exhaustion, etc.  This changes somewhat, too. Usually there is brainfog.  If I have waited a long time between orgasms, heart palpitations, feeling really on edge, and energized (but in a really bad way) are usually prominent symptoms.  If I am having orgasm once/day, and I repeat this process for weeks, these symptoms are usually less prominent -- in fact, I am more likely to feel exhausted (so the opposite end of a spectrum).

It feels like my condition has oscillated between two extreme ends of a spectrum, and along the way, it has paused somewhere in the middle.  One thing I can say for sure though, is that recovery time (with me) is dependent on frequency of orgasm.  If I average 1 orgasm/week, it takes longer to recover after each orgasm, than if I average 1 orgasm/day. 

[demografx]

I said about 100 cases for this specific forum.  I based that off of this: http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

I think B_Jim is including other cases of POIS found on the internet, in the 200 figure.  This accounts for the discrepancy.

Thanks for the clarification!

[demografx]

There is hope!

My endocrinologist liked the article from The New York Times! []

Demo---
For me, I always have SSRI therapy in my back pocket as a last resort. This was my last suggestion to my psychiatrist six weeks ago. But I will avoid it at all costs. Recovery time frame (of POIS) is very important in my opinion. Preventing reuptake of Serotonin may help in fast recovery cases mentioned in the article. I'm not sure in protracted ones (2-4 days). I am much more cautious than the doctor when he states, "I would exploit the usually undesirable side effects of the SSRI for possible therapeutic effects."
It would be great if SSRI's helped anyone, I would jump for joy. But I would also be very saddened if, after weeks of waiting for "steady state", it caused added misery.
Having read hundreds of posts, I seem to recall that many contributors have tried SSRI's in the past (including me). But as I read them, many seem (including me) to have other conditions too. But yet as I write this, I'm not sure. POIS could be a multi-headed monster,the actual cause of other problems. Here's something I haven't stated: If I cure my GAD, I'm sure my POIS would diminish, no doubt. If I cured POIS, I'm sure my GAD would disappear. Yet I'm terrified to try an SSRI (again), for side effects scare the hell out of me.[I took Zoloft in 95', but it seemed to do nothing because I was taking it with a potent benzo,and I stopped the SSRI] But as I told my psychiatrist, it is a last resort, and I mean last. However I would feel like a complete moron if I try it down the road and it works! Maybe my GAD, OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) and my POIS is just one, connected condition arising out of the physical fluke of orgasm, unrecognized and inconsequential as a teenager, but manifesting itself and growing to a disturbing disability during the course of a lifetime. Thanks for suggesting the article. I'll think good and hard about my SSRI option. What a  problem! But we will be happy when it is weakened and ultimately rendered harmless. But SSRI's are powerful and require careful, medical management.

Underwater, thanks for highlighting the SSRI angle. I missed it. I was simply too overjoyed from seeing a _psychiatrist_ say that post-orgasmic problems are NOT all in the head. Too many of us have been shipped off to the shrink for POIS.

I have 20 years experience with a number of SSRI's and have personally seen little effect, EXCEPT for the very first year of Prozac in 1989. That was for depression. I saw no effect at all on my POIS.

[underwater]

Demo--
Thanks for including your experiences with SSRI's. I don't think they are the answer either. My response was long winded because of what the psychiatrist said in the article. It just seemed a bit too optimistic, too simple. It's always an option for experimentation, but must be very carefully considered. I think it's prudent for people to look at the article critically, especially since it has been referenced in this forum. 

[demografx]

   
We cross the 200 pois cases limit. Intersting dark circles eyes symptom . I will look this tommorow.

B_Jim, we now have 100X more cases than Dr. Waldinger had!

[Londonchap]

Hi guys. Just found this discussion board and I am thrilled to finally find people that recognise what I've been experiencing for all of my adult life. I no longer feel quite so confused and alone. My partner is incredibly patient & understanding but I must admit, I have questioned myself constantly about what is going on and why. It took me a long time to realise this isn't 'normal' but like all of you have struggled to find any explanations. This lack of answers or aknowledgement has simply added to the feelings of frustration and sadness.

I have no medical background and if I'm honest am struggling to understand most of the theories you guys have discussed, but I am in  early correspondence with some institutions here in the UK who, I am pleased to say, have not dismissed me out of hand. Apparently, there was some relevant research carried out in the UK in the mid 80s. The papers were not, unfortunately, published or indexed, but they do still exist and further investigation by a credible University professor is under way.

It may come to nothing, but I really do hope this might offer some answers and add some positive progress.

[girlwind]

Hi guys. Just found this discussion board and I am thrilled to finally find people that recognise what I've been experiencing for all of my adult life. I no longer feel quite so confused and alone. My partner is incredibly patient & understanding but I must admit, I have questioned myself constantly about what is going on and why. It took me a long time to realise this isn't 'normal' but like all of you have struggled to find any explanations. This lack of answers or aknowledgement has simply added to the feelings of frustration and sadness.

I have no medical background and if I'm honest am struggling to understand most of the theories you guys have discussed, but I am in  early correspondence with some institutions here in the UK who, I am pleased to say, have not dismissed me out of hand. Apparently, there was some relevant research carried out in the UK in the mid 80s. The papers were not, unfortunately, published or indexed, but they do still exist and further investigation by a credible University professor is under way.

It may come to nothing, but I really do hope this might offer some answers and add some positive progress.

Hello Londonchap, and welcome to the POIS forum. You are DEFINITELY VERY LUCKY to have found researchers
who are open to considering this condition and taking it seriously. That, as we have experienced all too often,
is truly a rarity. But after so much effort, we too are making some progress on this front. Some of us are in the
process of being diagnosed and treated by endocrinologists, who have not laughed us off or turned us over for
psychiatric care. This is a very bright and determined group of people, and we don't give up easily. We hope to
hear more from you and get further updates on your research investigations.

[CertainlyPOIS]

Demografx  - do you know anything or endocrologist said anything about the relationship between prolactin,dopamine and testosterone and estorgen.  acording to wiki prolactin and dopamine counteract eachothers effect and also prolacting counter the effects of testosterone and estrogen.